Silent Saturn
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My GM came up with an interesting way to keep Leadership from getting too out of control. The player can build the cohort however they want, but the starting attributes have to be 12 in everything (before racial adjustment). His idea is that this creates an NPC who's above average in everything but won't be as good as a PC in that PC's specialty.
This got me thinking-- what class would want to start with 12's in everything? What race/class combinations? What strategies? You'd need to be Human, Half-Elf, or Half-Orc just to qualify for Power Attack before Level 4. An Elf could take Combat Expertise or Dodge. A Two-Weapon Fighter would have to be a Ranger. Spellcasters would have terrible save DCs (and half-casters like bards would actually hav an edge over full-casters, as they wouldn't need magic items to get their casting stat high enough to cast high-level spells).
What would you build with 12's in everything? Would you even want to?
| RumpinRufus |
Oh man, there's tons of good choices.
1) Bard. It's a bard. Enough said.
2) Luck domain cleric - just have him stand next to you and use Bit of Luck on you every turn.
3) Druid - his Animal Companion is exactly the same no matter what the druid's stats are. Have the druid focus on summoning and his stats don't matter at all.
4) Dual-cursed oracle. The Misfortune ability has no save (or SR for that matter) so stats don't matter.
5) Summoner. The Eidolon and summons are just as powerful no matter what your stats are.
It's extra fun when you realize the cleric and oracle only have to be 1st level - so you don't even need them as cohorts, take them as followers. It's fun until they all die in a fireball (which will be about 10 seconds because you will annoy your GM so much.)
| VRMH |
Honestly? I would pass, stat lines that low are not worth having.
At the cost of one feat, you get an ally with above average scores in all abilities, and who can be tailor-made to suit your needs. Class, skills, feats... the works.
And you'd pass? What other feat is so much better than this?
| RumpinRufus |
I might even add gnome illusionist sorcerer to the list (not sure which bloodline.) Many illusions don't have saves unless you interact with them, and you never know when they'll come in handy. And the racial +1 to save DCs and +2 cha means even though the DCs will still be low, they won't be atrociously low.
| David knott 242 |
Since these 12s are before racial adjustments, your choice of race could be very important. If the cohort is human or half-human, he gets a 14 in a stat of his choice. Most other races would get 2 14's and a 10. It should not be too hard to come up with useful cohorts with those arrays.
| RumpinRufus |
Now that I think about it, you might as well roll 4 of my suggestions into 1. Have a gnomish bard with one-level dips into Luck domain cleric and Dual-cursed oracle. He starts combat by starting to sing, and then spends the rest of the rounds using Bit of Luck on you (or whichever party member needs it most.) When the enemy crits or makes an important save, he uses his swift action to Misfortune them and make them roll again. When you need to put up an illusion he can do that as well.
| DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
Remember that casters need a minimum ability score equal to 10 + the spell's level to cast that spell. That means that with a score of 12, you can't cast higher than a 2nd level spell (with racial modifiers, 4th level).
For example, under Intelligence:
The minimum Intelligence score needed to cast a wizard spell is 10 + the spell's level.
So I wouldn't recommend ANY spellcaster class unless you're okay with them not being able to cast very many spells or you're playing a low level game and/or your cohort is multiclass with just a dip into a caster class for some quick easy buff and utility spells and such.
Although... I guess bard might be okay if you're focusing on performance. A druid who just mostly shapeshifted might be interesting.
My personal choice would be rogue. Not a spellcaster, fairly jack of all tradey, can use the wide array of ability scores.
Barbarian could be interesting. With the right racial bonuses and relying on rage in combat, it'd be okay--nowhere near your uber damage dealer but would do what a barbarian is supposed to do pretty much.
Skillbased ranger (skirmisher archetype) might be good too--and actually great for a cohort. I'd probably pick an elf. Keep the ranger in the back, let her shoot, and she can do tracking and help the party find camp and such. Would help the party, wouldn't be too powerful and outshine anyone.
((As for the idea of giving cohorts across 12s, I'd rather just give them elite array and be done with it, and let them specialize where they need to, without much minmaxing.))
| RumpinRufus |
Remember that casters need a minimum ability score equal to 10 + the spell's level to cast that spell. That means that with a score of 12, you can't cast higher than a 2nd level spell (with racial modifiers, 4th level).
This doesn't become a problem until 15th level, at the earliest. Say you're a wizard, with the racial mod you have 14 int. By level 4 you have 15, by level 8 you have 16, by level 12 you have 17. When you get to level 15 you can't yet cast your 8th level spells, but at level 6 you can. By this point, you'll be able to afford the +2 headband anyway.
For any non-prepared caster this doesn't come into play until 18th level.
Silent Saturn
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@DeathQuaker: By my math, A Human cohort who puts his +2 into his spellcasting stat will get 8th level spells one level late, and have to wait until 20th level to get 9th level spells, but will still get them all eventually without the aid of magic items. That's if he's a full-caster, if he has Bard level spell progression, he can start with a 12 in his casting stat and still get all his spell levels on time through level-up increases.
So, a Human or Dwarf Cleric who doesn't force saving throws wouldn't feel the impact of low Wisdom until level 15. If he has a headband of Wisdom by that point, he won't feel it at all (and at that point, he should even with a loot-poor campaign).
I was thinking Elf Alchemist might be a good choice as well. He wouldn't have very many bombs per day and wouldn't add much to the splash damage, but he could hand out Infusions of Cure spells and his mutagen would pick up the slack in combat.
| Blueluck |
Your House Rule: 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12 = +6 in bonuses
PF Basic NPCs: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 = +0
PF Heroic NPCs: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 = +5 in bonuses
I would probably choose a monster cohort. I already have a preference for them, as they're interesting and often don't talk. (A cohort mount tends to distract from the PCs less than a cohort battle buddy.)
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Presuming I wasn't allowed a monster, the slightly lower abilities probably wouldn't impact my choice very much. I'd still still have the same priorities for choosing:
1 - Don't step on a PC's toes.
2 - Have some personality.
3 - Compliment my PC.
4 - Compliment my party.
My actual choices:
- Bard is usually a good choice for a cohort, and these ability scores don't change that.
- Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, and Paladin I also like, as they make good bodyguards, and both of those would still work. (A small Cavalier is OK too.)
- Oracle & Sorcerer are my go-to classes for NPC casters, and a gnome, at 8th level, with a 4000 gp Headband of Alluring Charisma +2 would have an 18 CHA.
- I try to avoid Cleric, Druid, Summoner, Wizard, Witch, & Magus, as cohorts because they're heavy on bookkeeping.
| Trogdar |
Trogdar wrote:Honestly? I would pass, stat lines that low are not worth having.At the cost of one feat, you get an ally with above average scores in all abilities, and who can be tailor-made to suit your needs. Class, skills, feats... the works.
And you'd pass? What other feat is so much better than this?
Mostly because an extra set of turns slows things down. I would see a good return out of a gnome bard in terms of a pocket buffer, but I would feel guilty at the time wasted.
| StreamOfTheSky |
Summoner of any variety, though Synthesist would work best.
Any martial type is right out; many feats have ability score requirements you'll be hard-pressed to meet with those stats.
A primary spellcaster is actually viable if racial +2 goes to casting stat, level up points, and you give them a +2/4/6 item for it as it becomes affordable (ie, how you'd optimize a caster anyway). That is plenty enough to be able to reach 19 for 9th level spell access and even rack up bonus spells/day. I'd still go with a wiz, sorc, or witch, though. Not one of the primary casters that's more melee-oriented, like druid or cleric. Focus on buff spells, summoning, any battlefield control that doesn't have a save or the save doesn't matter much, rays, and utility casting. Or hell, grab craft feats and make stuff for the party. Crafting cohorts rock!