Read the spells. Follow the rules. Learn to say no.
That about does it.
EDIT: Oh, and dice rollers are your friends. And keep a party at 4, since turns take much longer.
Awesome. +1
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Every game is different. Don't try to fix problems your group does not have yet. :)
i have read alot about the game breaking down at higher levels ,starting as early as 7th.
anyone have any good house rules to help with this ?
Most of the games I run and play tend to stop at 10th, and maybe will hit 11th as the pinnacle of player might.
The issue with me isn't the mechanics of the classes and monsters, as they work well enough (no system is perfect, and house rules help give GMs the feel they want).
The issue with high level play comes in to how the GM handles the setting around the characters. We assume that there are medieval style or renaissance style cities, villages, castles, whatnot in the world, and while there can be some fantasy elements to them, they generally spring up in the context of mundane threats and considerations, such as a wall for defense against attack, sewer system at best for maintenance, Bastille plan for city layout, etc.
What happens when characters can start blinking through walls, throwing lines of fire that continually burn across an entire neighborhood of thatch houses, buckle the stone to warp underneath castle walls, conjure hurricanes on a whim? This can happen at 5th, 7th, and 9th levels respectively. And not just wizards are to be feared. That barbarian with the adamantine axe can conceivably cut down a stone tower a la Advent Children style.
So to surmise that point,
1: Historic settlement set-ups are ill-suited to anything but low-fantasy threats.
What is to be done? Get creative as a GM. Look at the wealth available to a particular city size, and consider its access to those of magical skill. If rich adventurers will be brimming with enchanted gear down to their toe-rings, why would kings not magically treat castle walls, put up spell-tower anti-air defense wand-guns, have force-screen dome-shields over their keeps, scrying pools to track down fugitives, or even the little stuff like climate control for their throne room with permanent cantrips?
I will soon post a list of city enchantment items and try to provoke more ideas after I finish with this post.
If you tailor your wealthiest, most capable cities to account for not only the magical defenses necessary to defend against monsters and magi, but also the conveniences that utility magic can bring to function and leisure of the city, the presence of higher level folks feeling on par with the environment won't seem as unwieldy. That being said, smaller or more backward regions should totally resemble the squalor of medieval towns and be delightfully easy to decimate with magic and greatswords.
Now, it's not always about the structures and terrain of your environment to make high level play seem fitting. Sometimes, it's the people and creatures with which they share the world. This brings me to the second point of high level play in a reasonable setting.
2. The power economy has to make sense.
Imagine, you video game lovers, playing in a setting where the dire rats are handing you your backside as you whack at them with wooden swords. Now, 10 levels later, you are the King's champion, slicing through hordes of enemy soldiers and bisecting trolls with a single swing of the blade.
Now, remember when you were level 1, how everything felt maybe equal to or somewhat stronger than you, but you still fit in?
Well, if you hit level 10, those same marketplaces, shops, taverns, forests, and the like, should not feel the same. If you still feel like everything in the world has caught up to you, the GM has failed you.
So what is a GM to do? Your GM should keep areas consistent unless activating events explain differences. An area that was safe for your level 3 should not suddenly be loaded with T-rexes and xorns and treants when you go back at level 15. There will be areas of the world (or planes, other worlds, etc) which are demanding enough for your high level champion, but the world should still feel awed by their growth in the climb to power.
Every game is different. Don't try to fix problems your group does not have yet. :)
I can't agree with this more. I didn't put restrictions suggested for gunslingers on them until one of my players played one (which I built and somehow broke >.>)
I find that high level play breaks down because...
(1) Saves and DCs move further apart. Save or Suck/Die spells become much more swingey. Related to this are players who min/max and their mins comes back to bite them in the ass (especially in relation to ability damage).
(2) Tracking modifiers. There are more modifiers in play so bookkeeping becomes much more bothersome.
(3) Increased ability interaction. There are a lot more corner cases between increasingly complex abilities.
(4) Cheese/Niche builds. Most of these only come into their own at higher levels. They depend on having lots of (2) and (3) going on.
(5) Quadratic Wizards.
I don't think there is anything that can fix this other than a new edition or setting a level cap (I like level 12).
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Its simple really. Limit magic items and wealth. I never give my players magic items unless they decide to loot the main boss and even then the gear is not tailored to the party but to the boss. If they want gear make them make it them selves. Wealth distribution is tricky. U dont want them rich to the point were there glowing in the dark and u dont wan them to poor to afford a thing. U need to keep them hungry give them enough to survive but barely. This will limit the power of the party greatly. Wizards will have to manage there spells better and wont be carrying bags full of wands and what not and melee wont have much fire power other than from feats and mundane magic gear. This will also allow time to pass nicely if they decide to make gear which they will be forced to. Also use the rules of starvation and dehydration to force the party to spend there money on actual food and water and have them state that they eat it and make sure to check there subtracting rations from there inventory. U would be surprised how many players ive killed because they dont load up on rations before heading out in2 the wild.
I don't have a problem with high level play in Pathfinder, and I often do what I can to add more of a high fantasy feel to the game at lower levels (usually more fantastic races and third party classes to add more of a "circus freaks" feel). Including gesalt rules as well as wounds and vitality from time to time if the party agrees to such mechanics.
Again, your mileage will very and these tend to be things that you can only answer/discover for yourself based on where your table stands on such things.