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I'm a LG cleric of Iomedae in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. I'm currently 4th level, and I always have trouble deciding what spells to prep, particularly in my 2nd-level slots.
Given the "never know what you'll face" nature of PFS, what are the "old standby" spells that experienced players default to? Is it worth leaving a slot or two open in PFS, or will I likely not get the chance to fill them in?
Advice appreciated!
If it changes your answers, I currently have 15 WIS, planning to get a +2 WIS headband when I hit 5th level.
Thanks!
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A lot of it depends on your role.
I do a bit of melee, with 16 STR and a longsword. I've got 24 AC and 31 HP. I also have shield of faith as my standard 1st-level domain spell, with bless weapon as my usual 2nd-level domain spell. I generally don't Channel in combat, but typically prepare stabilize in case of emergency.
You can see more of my stats by clicking my name.
Does that help?
I like Sound Burst. The damage is low, but an area spell that makes everyone in a 20' diameter circle save or be stunned is great. "A stunned creature drops everything held, can't take actions, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any)."
It looks like you're built for melee. Self buffing isn't a bad idea, but you'll get a lot more mileage out of buffs that effect the whole party. Communal Protection from Evil is pretty awesome.
With Heroism and Sun domains, you may want to seriously consider Fast Channeling when you hit 5th level.
Glory Domain
You are infused with the glory of the divine, and are a true foe of the undead. In addition, when you channel positive energy to harm undead creatures, the save DC to halve the damage is increased by 2.
Sun Domain
Sun's Blessing (Su): Whenever you channel positive energy to harm undead creatures, add your cleric level to the damage dealt. Undead do not add their channel resistance to their saves when you channel positive energy.
I'm currently 4th level, and I always have trouble deciding what spells to prep, particularly in my 2nd-level slots.
I usually take this route when thinking about cleric spells:
* If I need to be in melee, what's the go-to melee spell. You typically get one shot here, so it better be pretty good, usually the highest level spell.
* If I need to cast a damage spell, what would it be? Sometimes you just need spell damage. What kind of spell depends on the situation, but I usually don't prep them 3 levels below your highest spell level. Note: I consider spells that indirectly cause damage to be damage spells.
* If there's no other option, can I buff the party? Always have a buff spell ready to go. Particularly strong is piercing damage reduction, so try to always have that option available.
* Is there a good battlefield control/escape spell available at a given spell level? If so, I usually take it.
* If a status condition occurs on someone in the party, can I do something about it? I usually fill up other slots with debuff removers.
So for second level with 15 Wisdom and no knowledge of party composition, I'd do something like:
4 (light, stabilize, detect magic, guidance)
3 + 1d + 1b (sun metal, remove fear, bless, obscuring mist, domain: shield of faith)
2 + 1d + 1b (sound burst, communal protection from evil, bull's strength, domain: bless weapon)
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Well, I'm only a 2nd level Cleric in PFS, but I have played Clerics in D&D 3.5 for years, and have a few suggestions for 2nd level Cleric spells.
Sound Burst is good if you have a high Wisdom. Since your Wisdom isn't very high, it might not be a good option.
Bull's Strength is good, if you want to prep it to buff one of your allies.
One of my personal favourites: Silence. To neuter enemy casters. One of my tactics in the past was ready my action to cast Silence in a point of space (not on another creature, that way there is no saving throw) if an enemy starts casting a spell. At best, you counter the spell. At worst, you force them to do something else. (It all depends on how the GM interprets the situation, unless you can find clear evidence one way or the other).
EDIT 1: I have seen Spear of Purity used to good effect. But that may or may not be for you, as there is a saving throw involved.
EDIT 2: I just saw that Silence has 1 round casting time in Pathfinder. Huh, never noticed that before. Might not be as good as it used to be.
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Bull's Strength is good, if you want to prep it to buff one of your allies.
Or to buff myself, thankyouverymuch! I like the idea of wading into melee with a high AC and 20 STR. :D
One of my personal favourites: Silence. To neuter enemy casters. One of my tactics in the past was ready my action to cast Silence in a point of space (not on another creature, that way there is no saving throw) if an enemy starts casting a spell. At best, you counter the spell. At worst, you force them to do something else. (It all depends on how the GM interprets the situation, unless you can find clear evidence one way or the other).
I used to feel the same way... until someone pointed out that silence's casting time is 1 round. :/ So no super-counterspells. Might still be nice to prep one copy of (or carry a scroll?) so that a first-round casting can neuter an enemy spellcaster for a few rounds.
Along a similar line of thought, I've considered pilfering hand to snatch NPC wizards' spell component pouches. >:D
I currently play a lvl 2 Cleric of Iomedae in PFS and I've been planning ahead.
A pair of underrated spells are Sanctuary and Grace. Being where you need to be to establish a flank, aid the party's big hitter, provide a heal, or channel from jusssst the right spot are huge advantages.
Other than that, Bless is almost automatic, and I have found great uses for Protection from Evil in virtually every scenario I've played in, so far.
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A pair of underrated spells are Sanctuary and Grace. Being where you need to be to establish a flank, aid the party's big hitter, provide a heal, or channel from jusssst the right spot are huge advantages.
Sanctuary would be more useful if I weren't a stab-you-in-the-face type of cleric. Grace can only help me for 1 round, so I have to recognize the need, cast it, and have it still be worthwhile on my next turn. I'd rather just eat the AoO with my 24 AC (or 26 if I have shield of faith up).
Other than that, Bless is almost automatic, and I have found great uses for Protection from Evil in virtually every scenario I've played in, so far.
I'm getting used to the first-level spells, but thanks. :)
Grace can only help me for 1 round, so I have to recognize the need, cast it, and have it still be worthwhile on my next turn.
It's a swift action to cast Grace - you can cast it, move (probably into flanking), and then attack on the same turn.
I would certainly be inclined to leave one slot open per level to be assigned later. Then if you encounter something that needs a certain spell you can prepare them. On the other hand, if you use up your spells and have more combats ahead, just stop and get more combat spells ready.
BTW, for silence it's tricky because the casting time is long and the duration is short. But if you know you are going to need it then cast it on one of the party archer's arrows, and when he sees an enemy caster try to cast, shoot him with it. :)
I agree with your assessment of grace. If you have a high AC then you want to draw AoOs away from your fellow party members.
Peet
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Grace can only help me for 1 round, so I have to recognize the need, cast it, and have it still be worthwhile on my next turn.It's a swift action to cast Grace - you can cast it, move (probably into flanking), and then attack on the same turn.
One of these days I'll learn to start reading my spells' casting times. :P
Even so, that's a 2nd-level spell just to not get attacked, when I've got a pretty solid AC anyway. Pass.
Grace can only help me for 1 round, so I have to recognize the need, cast it, and have it still be worthwhile on my next turn.It's a swift action to cast Grace - you can cast it, move (probably into flanking), and then attack on the same turn.One of these days I'll learn to start reading my spells' casting times. :P
Even so, that's a 2nd-level spell just to not get attacked, when I've got a pretty solid AC anyway. Pass.
It's not a bad spell when you're fighting big, scary things. I don't think at 4th level it's probably a good choice, but I'd seriously consider it at level 7+.
Silence can still be worth while.
I used to shut down enemy casters. I had mobility and would cast silence on myself. Then I would charge the enemy caster. This is in some ways better than the arrow because they can move away from the arrow. But if they move away from me, I can follow them.
The charging and following of casters tends to generate a lot of AoO, so I took mobility to help with that.
And yes I like pilfering hand. But it is best with a high casting stat. pesky archer that you can't catch? Take his bow. Evil cleric channeling negative energy? Take his holy symbol. Super vegomatic magus with improved crit on his ginsu scimitar? Take the scimitar.
The caster can't move away from the arrow if it is sticking out of their chest! :P
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I used to feel the same way... until someone pointed out that silence's casting time is 1 round. :/ So no super-counterspells. Might still be nice to prep one copy of (or carry a scroll?) so that a first-round casting can neuter an enemy spellcaster for a few rounds.
Along a similar line of thought, I've considered pilfering hand to snatch NPC wizards' spell component pouches. >:D
Yes, I realized that afterwards, hence my edit. All the nuances of the transition from 3.5 to Pathfinder haven't kicked in for me yet. Hence, I think Silence would be better as a scroll, or an oil (if that's applicable).
Although some people hate it (and you might be in that same group), there's always Spiritual Weapon. Sure, your wisdom isn't super high, but it can be useful, as it does make free attacks on subsequent turns.
Only other suggestion I can make will be Summon Monster II, although the 1 round casting time kind of hurts. And I'm not familiar with the Monster lists yet to even know if there's anything good there.
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Although some people hate it (and you might be in that same group), there's always Spiritual Weapon. Sure, your wisdom isn't super high, but it can be useful, as it does make free attacks on subsequent turns.
I love that spell. :) I'll probably start prepping it regularly once I have my headband. Same with hold person, for that matter.
Be careful about having too many buffing spells. If you can cast them on yourself before combat, great, but if you are surprised, you might be able to get off one round of buffing before things start getting exciting.
As a combat focused cleric, your spells should be used to either support your melee or do things out of combat. Bull's strength is a solid spell for combat, as is bless and shield of faith.
Out of combat, you can look at non-spontaneous healing spells (delay poison, lesser restoration) or what I call plot breaker spells (spells that change the scenario itself). With a higher wisdom, zone of truth is a really powerful spell to deal with mysterious strangers lying to you, but it does have a will save. Another one, depending on the GM, is make whole. You come across a damaged bridge. Oh, look, bridge is repaired. The lock on the door is busted? Fixed. While not always useful, when it is it can completely change how difficult the adventure is.
For example, you might always prepare your domain spells, Bless, and Bull's Strength. But save the rest of your slots for after the VC gives you your mission and you find out what your party is composed of. Looks like you're facing undead? Consecrate. Have a squishy meleer in your group like a rogue or magus (or a group with plenty of damagers already but short on support?) Maybe go for Shield Other.
I'm not sure which second level cleric spells are always useful, haven't played my cleric up there very much yet. But Communal Protection...
This.
I play a 4th level cleric, too. What I pick has everything to do with who's in the party. We played today. There were 2 rogues and a monk in our party, playing Defenders of the Nesting Swallow.
0: Create Water (twice, for fires), Resistance, Stabilize, Det. Magic
1: Bless x2 (once), Shield of Faith x2(once), Burning Hands (worked great, even though they all saved for 1/2)
2: Aid (once), Hold Person (switched), Produce Flame (switched), Summon Monster II
I cast the Aid on myself after getting stomped, and spontaneously cast 2 CMWs during the fights. Having no strong melee, I was a bit worried, but we prevailed with channels and I was the only caster, and the closest thing to a tank, too. I flanked and power attacked, whiffing a few times, but critting, too.
It worked out, but had there been other casters there, I would have talked to them a bit before preparing spells. You may be a buffer, or in your case, tanking could be better. It just depends. You've got the whole list available, so see who's in your party and talk to them.
0: Create Water (twice, for fires), Resistance, Stabilize, Det. Magic
Remember that for 0-level cantrips/orisons, you can cast them an unlimited number of times per day as long as you have them prepared. So you would never need to prepare an orison more than once, as you have here.
Instead of your second create water I would include guidance. It's a very versatile spell, and when you run out of buffs it is one that is nice, considering that it is basically free.
Also, create water can be used to reveal invisible creatures in a square, just as powder does. Splash the square with water and if it hits anything invisible it will glance off. Also it creates puddles and if an invisible creature stands in a puddle his feet are visible.
Peet
0: Create Water (twice, for fires), Resistance, Stabilize, Det. MagicRemember that for 0-level cantrips/orisons, you can cast them an unlimited number of times per day as long as you have them prepared. So you would never need to prepare an orison more than once, as you have here.
Instead of your second create water I would include guidance. It's a very versatile spell, and when you run out of buffs it is one that is nice, considering that it is basically free.
Also, create water can be used to reveal invisible creatures in a square, just as powder does. Splash the square with water and if it hits anything invisible it will glance off. Also it creates puddles and if an invisible creature stands in a puddle his feet are visible.
Peet
Also remember that clerics only get a max of 4 orisons per day
Remember that for 0-level cantrips/orisons, you can cast them an unlimited number of times per day as long as you have them prepared. So you would never need to prepare an orison more than once, as you have here.
I cast Create Water twice. The others, not at all. What confused you?
Before I pick spells for a session on my druid, I take a close reading of the scenario blurb on the MeetUp site (we're in the same area, but haven't played together to my knowledge, so you're seeing as much as I am). From this, I winnow down unlikely utility and find clues for useful tools. For example, if it has the words Aspis Consortium anywhere in the description, anti-humanoid spells would immediately be on my list. If it says outdoors (Tide of Twilight, for instance), I pick that type of spell for my potential lineup.
Another thing I look at is table comp, just like A highly regarded expert mentioned. As each player sits down and we do introductions, I ask a little bit about their character. My last table was the rogue pregen, a high strength monk, an archer fighter, and a TWF ranger. I had the highest AC in the party, so I prepped defensive options.
Lastly, I walk into sessions with appropriate spell cards printed off. This aids my prep time substantially. I do not have every spell printed off. I've cut my list down to spells that I have character reasons to prepare most of the time and removed spells that my character would prefer not to cast (Storm Druid archetype, so I generally eschew earth-based spells, etc.).
From your available options, I would generally have the following spell cards ready for picking, excluding your automatic Cure spells:
2: Bull's Strength, Aid, Resist Energy, Summon Monster II, Calm Emotions, Hold Person, Enthrall, Shatter, Restoration, Lesser, Spear of Purity (UM), Protection from Evil, Communal (UC), Endure Elements, Communal (UC).
1: Bless, Command, Cause Fear, Divine Favor, Obscuring Mist, Entropic Shield, Shield of Faith, Summon Monster I, Murderous Command (UM), Know the Enemy (UM).
0: All of them. There are 13 from CRB+APG+UM+UC total. That's about 2 sheets given that Detect Magic takes 4 slots in Perram's Spell Card Generator. I did Detect Magic on its own page and used 3 pages total on orisons.
Important note: you'll need to slightly adjust the print settings when prepping the spell cards. On the Playing Card size, size down to 97% and remove the header and footer from the print job or you will have some of the bottom cards run onto a second page.
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Well, ended up jumping from 4.2 to 5.2 with a sanctioned Module (Feast of Ravenmoor), and now I can afford that +2 WIS headband and have decent save DCs (and a bonus 3rd-level spell per day). So I'll probably be prepping a hold person and a spiritual weapon as my defaults for 2nd-level (adjusting for party composition as appropriate) with maybe an empty slot, and prepping a blindness/deafness and an empty slot at 3rd. And now I get heroism as a domain spell.
I love this class!
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Important note: you'll need to slightly adjust the print settings when prepping the spell cards. On the Playing Card size, size down to 97% and remove the header and footer from the print job or you will have some of the bottom cards run onto a second page.
Stay tuned to the site this week, an update to the cards will solve this problem forever!
Well, ended up jumping from 4.2 to 5.2 with a sanctioned Module (Feast of Ravenmoor), and now I can afford that +2 WIS headband and have decent save DCs (and a bonus 3rd-level spell per day). So I'll probably be prepping a hold person and a spiritual weapon as my defaults for 2nd-level (adjusting for party composition as appropriate) with maybe an empty slot, and prepping a blindness/deafness and an empty slot at 3rd. And now I get heroism as a domain spell.
I love this class!
And now you're into the level 3 hotness. There's lots of it.
Stay tuned to the site this week, an update to the cards will solve this problem forever!
I'm definitely looking forward to that. :-D