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New question I have a level 5 human sorcerer w/sylvan bloodline and a Bear AC. I took Boon Companion at level 3 and so my effective druid level is 5 I took craft wondrous item @ 5 and so I am going to create robes of arcane heritage. I need a little help knowing if my +4 level effect from the robes will apply to the AC, will it be lvl 5 Sorcerer with effective druid level of 5 or 9?
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If this was a Pathfinder Society character then crafting isn't allowed but if it's not then:
The Robes of Arcane Heritage only increase your level for the purpose of bloodline powers. It's not an actual level increase, your character level is still 5, so your AC will also still be 5. Hope that helps.
If this was a Pathfinder Society character then crafting isn't allowed but if it's not then:
The Robes of Arcane Heritage only increase your level for the purpose of bloodline powers. It's not an actual level increase, your character level is still 5, so your AC will also still be 5. Hope that helps.
The bear Animal companion comes from a Bloodline power, hence this question. It's probably better suited for a Rules Question, and not the PFS boards.
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The bear Animal companion comes from a Bloodline power, hence this question. It's probably better suited for a Rules Question, and not the PFS boards.If this was a Pathfinder Society character then crafting isn't allowed but if it's not then:
The Robes of Arcane Heritage only increase your level for the purpose of bloodline powers. It's not an actual level increase, your character level is still 5, so your AC will also still be 5. Hope that helps.
Yes, but the bloodline power only allows you to have the companion at an effective druid level equal to your sorcerer level -3. There are no bonuses to the companion after that. The Boon Companion feat then boosts the companion up 4 levels not to exceed your character level, which is 5.
The way I think the Robes are supposed to work is that they allow you to take bloodline powers before you were legally able to due to level restrictions. For example, the Sylvan bloodline gets wings at level 15, but with the robes he would get it at level 11 instead.
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First of all, ditto the others that crafting feats aren't allowed in PFS.
But regarding the rules question, I think anthonydido is wrong about this.
The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
The animal companion is an effect of a bloodline power, and that bloodline power references your level. Since the robe increases your level for the purpose of bloodline powers, it would increase your effective druid level.
HOWEVER, remember that the Boon Companion feat can't raise your effective druid level past your character level (See here. So without the feat, your robes increase your effective druid level from 2 (Sorcerer level - 3) up to 6. But because the Boon Companion feat can't raise it higher than your character level, it does nothing.
So your new effective druid level would not be 5 or 9. It would be 6.
New question I have a level 5 human sorcerer w/sylvan bloodline and a Bear AC. I took Boon Companion at level 3 and so my effective druid level is 5 I took craft wondrous item @ 5 and so I am going to create robes of arcane heritage. I need a little help knowing if my +4 level effect from the robes will apply to the AC, will it be lvl 5 Sorcerer with effective druid level of 5 or 9?
Sylvan bloodline Animal Companion (Ex): "You gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st). This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch."
Robes of Arcane Heritage: "The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects."
Boon Companion: "The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level*."
SKR Official Ruling: "The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level."
Two problems:
1) Boon companion will not raise your effective druid level beyond your character level.
2) The robes only increase your effective level for bloodline powers, not bloodline arcana. The animal companion bloodline power also counts as your bloodline arcana. So an ability which only affects bloodline power may not work on the animal companion.
Two problems:
1) Boon companion will not raise your effective druid level beyond your character level.2) The robes only increase your effective level for bloodline powers, not bloodline arcana. The animal companion bloodline power also counts as your bloodline arcana. So an ability which only affects bloodline power may not work on the animal companion.
1) Correct. So his effective sorcerer level with the robes is 9, meaning his effective druid level will be 6. Unless you wanted to be an uber-jerk, and say that Boon Companion still capped your EDL at character level, even when it got there from other sources. I wouldn't rule that way, but you could make a case for it with the wording as it is.
2) I don't think that's an issue. The robes only say that they work for bloodline powers. The animal companion is a bloodline power. The fact that it's also an arcana doesn't change that.
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Two problems:
1) Boon companion will not raise your effective druid level beyond your character level.2) The robes only increase your effective level for bloodline powers, not bloodline arcana. The animal companion bloodline power also counts as your bloodline arcana. So an ability which only affects bloodline power may not work on the animal companion.
1) Correct. So his effective sorcerer level with the robes is 9, meaning his effective druid level will be 6. Unless you wanted to be an uber-jerk, and say that Boon Companion still capped your EDL at character level, even when it got there from other sources. I wouldn't rule that way, but you could make a case for it with the wording as it is.
2) I don't think that's an issue. The robes only say that they work for bloodline powers. The animal companion is a bloodline power. The fact that it's also an arcana doesn't change that.
I think RainyDay is correct on this.
1) The effective sorcerer level has nothing to do with the effective druid level, they are different values entirely. So, a Sylvan Sorcerer with robes of arcane heritage would have effective Sorcerer level 9, which means effective Druid level 6 for his animal companioin. Boon Companion wouldn't do anything in this case, because his effective Druid level is already higher than his character level, so it has no effect.
2) The robes would work on the Sylvan bloodline power, because it's still listed as a bloodline power. The relevant text is shown here:
This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch.
This means it's a bloodline power, which means the robes work on it. Doesn't matter that it also "counts as" the arcana, it's still a power.
would love to get a official word #james jacobs
James doesn't publicly answer rules questions anymore. Pounding him probably won't change that.
You could try asking in the Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here thread, though I would recommend phrasing your question more along 'what would you do at your table' or 'how would you personally feel about...' rather than asking how the rule works.
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I wouldn't say that the Robes of Arcane Heritage Stack at all with Boon Companion. They both have a static benefit "Treat your level as 4 levels higher". They don't say "add 4 levels to your total effective level". If my effective druid/sorcerer level is 5 and I have Boon Companion, I can treat my effective level as 9, as long as that doesn't exceed my total character level. If I have Robes of Arcane Heritage and my Sorcerer level is 5, I can again treat it as 9. The abilities don't stack, because having Boon Companion or the robes doesn't magically change my actual level. They're both allowing you to treat the base number as 4 higher.
Having thought it over, I change my original stance.
I think the robes would increase your effective druid level, but the boon companion would not. Your effective druid level would be 6.
However, the two WOULD stack *if* you multiclassed.
So, if you were 5 Sorcerer/2 Fighter, for example, then the robes would make your Sorcerer level 9 (just as now). The Animal Companion would have an effective druid level of 6 (9 - 3) + 2 (for the fighter levels) or 8. The boon companion would overcome the loss from multiclassing, which is it's purpose, but not boost the effective druid level of the straight sorcerer.
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I'd rule that it's 9. The feat applies first, then the item raises your effective level up by 4.
Always apply the feat first as its permanent, and the robes are a temp bonus, that you dont gain unless you wear for more than 24 hours in a row, which would be impossible, so Feat bonus to 5 then magic bonus to 9.
Rawr you haz 9th lvlz bare 4 fytes.
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I'd rule that it's 9. The feat applies first, then the item raises your effective level up by 4.
Always apply the feat first as its permanent, and the robes are a temp bonus, that you dont gain unless you wear for more than 24 hours in a row, which would be impossible, so Feat bonus to 5 then magic bonus to 9.
Rawr you haz 9th lvlz bare 4 fytes.
The feat and the robes don't actually stack at all for a straight sorcerer. They both have identical static effects "treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal" and "The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher". They don't say "add 4 levels to your effective class level". They're both taking the base class level of 2, and raising it up to 6, though Boon companion has the added proviso that it can't raise that level past your total character level. At the end of the day though, they just don't stack.
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The feat and the robes don't actually stack at all for a straight sorcerer. They both have identical static effects "treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal" and "The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher". They don't say "add 4 levels to your effective class level". They're both taking the base class level of 2, and raising it up to 6, though Boon companion has the added proviso that it can't raise that level past your total character level. At the end of the day though, they just don't stack.I'd rule that it's 9. The feat applies first, then the item raises your effective level up by 4.
Always apply the feat first as its permanent, and the robes are a temp bonus, that you dont gain unless you wear for more than 24 hours in a row, which would be impossible, so Feat bonus to 5 then magic bonus to 9.
Rawr you haz 9th lvlz bare 4 fytes.
You're incorrect here, Ssalarn. These items WOULD stack if the character had enough non-Sorcerer character levels to make up the difference. For example:
-I have a Sylvan Sorcerer 4/Barbarian 4. His effective Sorcerer level is 4, and so his effective Druid level for his animal companion is 4-3 = 1.
-He buys the robes of Arcane Heritage. This makes his effective Sorcerer level for bloodline powers 8. His effective Druid level is therefore 8-3=5.
-He also has Boon Companion. His effective Sorcerer level is still 8. However, Boon Companion raises his effective DRUID level, which is currently 5. So, he would have a total effective Druid level of 5+3 = 8, which is his total character level.
-If he took one more level of Barbarian, he could have a total effective Druid level of 5+4 = 9. (note that he'd have a base attack bonus of +7)
-At this point, to continue raising his effective Druid level, he would either have to go back to Sorcerer levels or start taking levels in Druid or another class that raises your effective Druid level for your animal companion, such as the Mammoth Rider (which requires BAB +6).
-If he ever lost his robes of Arcane Heritage, his animal companion would become weaker, losing several hit dice. This seems strange from a roleplaying perspective, but it's how the rules work. EDIT: Note that this could theoretically make the character no longer qualify for the Mammoth Rider prestige class (requires at least effective Druid level of 6th for the companion). Would this cause him to lose the benefits of the Mammoth Rider class until his Druid level gets back up to the right amount? Maybe, maybe not. This is a super weird corner case, but it could happen.
Always apply the feat first as its permanent, and the robes are a temp bonus, that you dont gain unless you wear for more than 24 hours in a row
There's nothing in the Robes of Arcane Heritage item description which mentions it being a temporary bonus.
The feat and the robes don't actually stack at all for a straight sorcerer. They both have identical static effects
I'm not sure about that.
SKR Official Ruling on Boon Companion: "The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level."
That looks like Boon Companion directly raises your effective druid level. Meaning, the "class" level it raises is druid.
The robes treat your sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the bloodline. This indirectly increases your effective druid level.
In other words, the bloodline power sets your effective druid level to [SORC-3], and boon companion increases your effective druid level by 4.
The reason I think they can't both really help in this case is that the animal companion is granted by a bloodline power which is based on sorcerer levels. Without the bloodline power, you have no animal companion, thus boon companion does nothing. Since the class feature is based on sorcerer level, and the robe increases effective sorcerer level, I think the robe must be applied first. Once you've determined the class ability which grants the animal, then you can apply boon companion to directly increase your effective druid level. (Which in this case does nothing due to the character level cap)
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You're incorrect here, Ssalarn. These items WOULD stack if the character had enough non-Sorcerer character levels to make up the difference. For example:
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Go ahead and read my post again there CB, I said "for a straight sorcerer", since that's what we're dealing with in the OP's post. I'm aware that there is some potential for the abilities to work together with a multiclassed character.
@Grick
The bloodline ability says to treat your druid level as your sorcerer level (-3 of course), so I don't really think your position works here.
Agreed that either way they don't stack though.
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You're incorrect here, Ssalarn. These items WOULD stack if the character had enough non-Sorcerer character levels to make up the difference. For example:
***
Go ahead and read my post again there CB, I said "for a straight sorcerer", since that's what we're dealing with in the OP's post. I'm aware that there is some potential for the abilities to work together with a multiclassed character.
@Grick
The bloodline ability says to treat your druid level as your sorcerer level (-3 of course), so I don't really think your position works here.
Agreed that either way they don't stack though.
Ah, totally true, I glossed over "straight sorcerer". Sorry about that!
Now that I've brought it up though, what do you think would happen to my Sorc/Barb/Mammoth Rider who took off his Cloak of Arcane Heritage and suddenly no longer met the requirements for his Prestige class? If it works the way feats do, you'd lose all benefits of the prestige class until you meet the prerequisites again, but that's literally losing character levels, so I don't think that's how it would work.
I would say it 2 for Sor level, +3 for feat, 4 for items. total of 9.
The real question is you realy saved 8k of 10.5 k gold for 5th level PC?
So you will have 1 item that is 80% of you total wealth by level.
That need to be thought about as GM...
Robes of Arcane Heritage
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th
Slot body; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
These elegant, dark purple and royal blue robes are usually decorated with gold stitching depicting a sorcerer bloodline, though some indicate a family tree. The stitching changes to match the sorcerer bloodline of the wearer. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, creator must be a sorcerer; Cost 8,000 gp
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***Now that I've brought it up though, what do you think would happen to my Sorc/Barb/Mammoth Rider who took off his Cloak of Arcane Heritage and suddenly no longer met the requirements for his Prestige class? If it works the way feats do, you'd lose all benefits of the prestige class until you meet the prerequisites again, but that's literally losing character levels, so I don't think that's how it would work.
Yeah, that's a pretty awkward corner case... Now, since your Mammoth Rider levels still advance your animal companion there's always the potential of this being a non-issue, but I think RAW, if you don't qualify without your robes you really would lose all the benefits of the class aside from hit die and skill points until you got new robes, replaced them with a feat, or gained enough levels of sorcerer to re-qualify.
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I would say it 2 for Sor level, +3 for feat, 4 for items. total of 9.
The real question is you realy saved 8k of 10.5 k gold for 5th level PC?
So you will have 1 item that is 80% of you total wealth by level.
That need to be thought about as GM...Robes of Arcane Heritage
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th
Slot body; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
These elegant, dark purple and royal blue robes are usually decorated with gold stitching depicting a sorcerer bloodline, though some indicate a family tree. The stitching changes to match the sorcerer bloodline of the wearer. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, creator must be a sorcerer; Cost 8,000 gp
This is definitely NOT correct. While the robes of Arcane Heritage can raise your effective sorcerer level higher than your current character level, the Boon Companion feat can NEVER raise your effective Druid level higher than your character level. So, in the OP's original case, there would be no mechanical benefit to having Boon Companion, and his effective Druid level would be (Sorc 5 - 3 = 2) + 4 from robes = 6. Period. Can't possibly be higher.
I would say it 2 for Sor level, +3 for feat, 4 for items. total of 9.
Can you explain why you would say that?
Specifically, why would the feat be applied before the robes? Is it because you're using Boon Companion to increase your sorcerer class level instead of druid? If so, why?
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***Now that I've brought it up though, what do you think would happen to my Sorc/Barb/Mammoth Rider who took off his Cloak of Arcane Heritage and suddenly no longer met the requirements for his Prestige class? If it works the way feats do, you'd lose all benefits of the prestige class until you meet the prerequisites again, but that's literally losing character levels, so I don't think that's how it would work.Yeah, that's a pretty awkward corner case... Now, since your Mammoth Rider levels still advance your animal companion there's always the potential of this being a non-issue, but I think RAW, if you don't qualify without your robes you really would lose all the benefits of the class aside from hit die and skill points until you got new robes, replaced them with a feat, or gained enough levels of sorcerer to re-qualify.
Super strange, but I agree with you. You'd only keep hit dice, BAB, Save bonuses and skill points, I suppose? However, if that's the case then you also wouldn't keep the advancement of the effective druid level from the Mammoth Rider class either. So theoretically it could be like:
-Sorcerer 5/Barbarian 4 - has effective Druid level of (5 - 3 = 2) + 4 from robes = 6.
-Takes one level of Mammoth Rider - has effective Druid level of 7. His companion becomes Huge size.
-Takes off robes. Effective Druid level decreases back to 3 (2 from Sorc + 1 from Mammoth Rider). Loses all class features of Mammoth Rider, which reduces him back to effective Druid level 2. Companion shrinks back down to probably Medium, loses a ton of HP and skill points and feats.
-Gains a level in Barbarian (Sorc 5/Barb 5/MR 1) and takes Boon Companion as his feat. Instantly gets effective Druid level back up to 6, then Mammoth Rider class features kick back in and make it 7. Companion becomes Huge size again.
-Then he puts back on his cloak and his effective Druid level is 11. LOL MINDFRAK.
This is why when crazy crap like this comes up, you just have to shrug and say "magic, whattayagonnado?"
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***Now that I've brought it up though, what do you think would happen to my Sorc/Barb/Mammoth Rider who took off his Cloak of Arcane Heritage and suddenly no longer met the requirements for his Prestige class? If it works the way feats do, you'd lose all benefits of the prestige class until you meet the prerequisites again, but that's literally losing character levels, so I don't think that's how it would work.Yeah, that's a pretty awkward corner case... Now, since your Mammoth Rider levels still advance your animal companion there's always the potential of this being a non-issue, but I think RAW, if you don't qualify without your robes you really would lose all the benefits of the class aside from hit die and skill points until you got new robes, replaced them with a feat, or gained enough levels of sorcerer to re-qualify.Super strange, but I agree with you. You'd only keep hit dice, BAB, Save bonuses and skill points, I suppose? However, if that's the case then you also wouldn't keep the advancement of the effective druid level from the Mammoth Rider class either. So theoretically it could be like:
-Sorcerer 5/Barbarian 4 - has effective Druid level of (5 - 3 = 2) + 4 from robes = 6.
-Takes one level of Mammoth Rider - has effective Druid level of 7. His companion becomes Huge size.
-Takes off robes. Effective Druid level decreases back to 3 (2 from Sorc + 1 from Mammoth Rider). Loses all class features of Mammoth Rider, which reduces him back to effective Druid level 2. Companion shrinks back down to probably Medium, loses a ton of HP and skill points and feats.
-Gains a level in Barbarian (Sorc 5/Barb 5/MR 1) and takes Boon Companion as his feat. Instantly gets effective Druid level back up to 6, then Mammoth Rider class features kick back in and make it 7. Companion becomes Huge size again.
-Then he puts back on his cloak and his effective Druid level is 11. LOL MINDFRAK.
This is why when crazy crap like this comes up,...
My thought was that, if you have enough levels of Mammoth Rider that your AC's effective level was still high enough for the prestige class, then you technically never stop qualifying. However, if you cease to qualify without the robes, than you would lose the Mammoth Rider advancement as well and have to re-qualify without it. Again though, pretty weird corner case, I would say the moral of the story is, don't take PrC's if you only qualify with items that can be taken away.
Come on people .. do you really think paizo wants your AC to be 4 levels higher then you are. This idea has had holes poked in many time.
I'd rule that it's 9. The feat applies first, then the item raises your effective level up by 4.
Always apply the feat first as its permanent, and the robes are a temp bonus, that you dont gain unless you wear for more than 24 hours in a row, which would be impossible, so Feat bonus to 5 then magic bonus to 9.
Rawr you haz 9th lvlz bare 4 fytes.
The feat can never take you beyond 4 higher than your caster level. It basically fills in "up to 4" just like that trait that raises your effective caster level by 2, but not higher than your HD.
The ninja is correct.
I would say it 2 for Sor level, +3 for feat, 4 for items. total of 9.Can you explain why you would say that?
Specifically, why would the feat be applied before the robes? Is it because you're using Boon Companion to increase your sorcerer class level instead of druid? If so, why?
Thought #1
D&D Rule 101 you can add in any order you want. It is your PC.Though #2
Or Class ability first because you choose it first.
Then add feats because you choose them next.
Next spells you take action add them.
Lastly items that you put on last.
Doing it the math that way both feat and item still work.
Doing it the other way that you guys are adding them one works one dose not.
Do you want toys to work or not to work?
Why have a feat and/or magic item dose not work?
Bottom line the Robes of Arcane Heritage user treat socerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
This item let you count as 4 levels more.
Off the top on my head this is not new thing Monks Robe form 3.0 till now do this. Also the Sliver Braclet for palidians in the APG dose this as well. There may be more just not off the top of my head.
Basicly it give you 1 power early and make the rest a little better.
It AC or pet so what. As GM I kill them whole sale with out even blinking a eye. My player feel they have done somethng if there AC alive after a fight and realy done something after chain of fights or dungeon crawl.
D&D/ Pathfinder is about finding balence between GM power and Player power. So players have found a way to shift more power to their side of the scale.... dose this not also mean that the GM can not do the same???
Cause any thing you can do as player can not I do as a GM?
Are scales not still balenced if you as a player can add four levels to your side as player so then I as GM can add 4 levels as well.?.? At the end of the day are we not still balenced.
Differnt point of view this feat came like about 4 years ago and the Item came out about 3. Do you realy not think Paizio would not fix it by now if it was not how they meant it play out?
This is definitely NOT correct. While the robes of Arcane Heritage can raise your effective sorcerer level higher than your current character level, the Boon Companion feat can NEVER raise your effective Druid level higher than your character level. So, in the OP's original case, there would be no mechanical benefit to having Boon Companion, and his effective Druid level would be (Sorc 5 - 3 = 2) + 4 from robes = 6. Period. Can't possibly be higher.I would say it 2 for Sor level, +3 for feat, 4 for items. total of 9.
The real question is you realy saved 8k of 10.5 k gold for 5th level PC?
So you will have 1 item that is 80% of you total wealth by level.
That need to be thought about as GM...Robes of Arcane Heritage
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th
Slot body; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
These elegant, dark purple and royal blue robes are usually decorated with gold stitching depicting a sorcerer bloodline, though some indicate a family tree. The stitching changes to match the sorcerer bloodline of the wearer. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, creator must be a sorcerer; Cost 8,000 gp
Take the Boon Aniaml out of the talk.
6th level Sorcerer put on this item what level dose his blood line power work at. 6+4=10 So it ok forthe item to take you past your PC level in that way. Why is it not ok for the same item to raise it in your mind some other way.
I agree the feat only get you up to your PC level. Then add it on to give it the +4.
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Differnt point of view this feat came like about 4 years ago and the Item came out about 3. Do you realy not think Paizio would not fix it by now if it was not how they meant it play out?
The Core Rulebook's wording on what kind of action sunder requires has been wrong (that is, contradicting the intent) ever since it was printed, and only just got corrected a month and a half ago.
Things that don't come up that often don't get attention very quickly, so "If it wasn't meant to work this way, they'd have said so by now" doesn't really hold water.
And that's not even addressing the issue that every rule in the game has someone who misunderstands it, so if a rule isn't changed, is it because it's clearly X and everyone who thinks it's Y is wrong, or is it because it's clearly Y and everyone who thinks it's X is wrong?
I agree the feat only get you up to your PC level. Then add it on to give it the +4.
According to the Animal Companion ability, you first have to know your sorcerer level before you can calculate your effective druid level. So you should look at anything that changes your sorcerer level (such as the robes), before you look at things that change your EDL (such as Boon Companion).
How are you creating the robes at level 5 if they are CL 9?
How are you creating the robes at level 5 if they are CL 9?
To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item's creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item (see Cursed Items for more information).
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
So Base DC to make the robes is 9+5 spellcraft check or DC 14.
Because the Crafter is short by 4 levels tyou then add +5 for each level missing or +20 to DC. So the new DC14+DC20=DC34.
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How are you creating the robes at level 5 if they are CL 9?To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item's creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item (see Cursed Items for more information).
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
So Base DC to make the robes is 9+5 spellcraft check or DC 14.
Because the Crafter is short by 4 levels tyou then add +5 for each level missing or +20 to DC. So the new DC14+DC20=DC34.
Actually, as the rules are written, you don't have to add +5 to the spellcraft check for EACH level you're missing, just once for not meeting the caster level prerequisite. So the DC would actually only be 14+5=19.
Now, SHOULD it be +5 per missing caster level? Probably. But that's not RAW, and would be a house rule.
Here look at this way pathfinder say you should never have to multi class ever... That base class should be able to stand on their own. never need to multi class or take pressiage class and you will still have good PC at any level...
Why Make magic Item that in you point of view could only be use by Mulit class PC or PC that has taken Presstiege class ?.?.
By your point of view none of this stuff works for a straight Classs PC
Robe, Monk's
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 10th
Slot body; Price 13,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
This simple brown robe, when worn, confers great ability in unarmed combat. If the wearer has levels in monk, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC). This AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, righteous might or transformation; Cost 6,500 gp
Silver Smite Bracelet
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 9th
Slot wrist; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
This heavy silver bracelet is etched with icons of purity, fidelity, chastity, and honor, and glows with a soft white light whenever its owner prays. The wearer of this bracelet treats her paladin level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of her smite evil class feature.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, align weapon, creator must be a paladin; Cost 8,000 gp
Sash of the War Champion
Aura moderate abjuration; CL 9th
Slot chest; Price 4,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
This bright red strip of cloth, stitched with images of a cheering crowd throwing garlands toward a chariot, fits across the wearer's shoulders and then diagonally down his chest to reach his opposite hip. The wearer treats his fighter level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of the armor training and bravery class features.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, cat's grace, remove fear; Cost 2,000 gp
Robes of Arcane Heritage
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th
Slot body; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
These elegant, dark purple and royal blue robes are usually decorated with gold stitching depicting a sorcerer bloodline, though some indicate a family tree. The stitching changes to match the sorcerer bloodline of the wearer. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, creator must be a sorcerer; Cost 8,000 gp
Also this Feat dose not work because it give you more sneak attack Dice than a striaght Rouge.
Precise Strike (Combat, Teamwork)
You are skilled at striking where it counts, as long as an ally distracts your foe.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Whenever you and an ally who also has this feat are flanking the same the creature, you deal an additional 1d6 points of precision damage with each successful melee attack. This bonus damage stacks with other sources of precision damage, such as sneak attack. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit.
Here look at this way pathfinder say you should never have to multi class ever... That base class should be able to stand on their own. never need to multi class or take pressiage class and you will still have good PC at any level...
Sure. Nobody is required to multiclass or take prestige classes.
Why Make magic Item that in you point of view could only be use by Mulit class PC or PC that has taken Presstiege class ?
... so that it can be used by the people who choose to multiclass or take prestige classes?
Pathfinder says you should never have to take a level of paladin if you don't want to. But it also makes items and abilities that can only be used by Paladins.
By your point of view none of this stuff
None of it what?
None of those items are capped at your character level, unlike the ones mentioned earlier. (Boon Companion, Magical Knack)
Also this Feat dose not work because it give you more sneak attack Dice than a striaght Rouge.
It does work, and though it's similar to sneak attack, it's not sneak attack, and even if it was, it's 1d6 which is the same as a level 1 rogue (who could also benefit from the feat once he qualifies).
How are you creating the robes at level 5 if they are CL 9?To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item's creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item (see Cursed Items for more information).
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
So Base DC to make the robes is 9+5 spellcraft check or DC 14.
Because the Crafter is short by 4 levels tyou then add +5 for each level missing or +20 to DC. So the new DC14+DC20=DC34.Actually, as the rules are written, you don't have to add +5 to the spellcraft check for EACH level you're missing, just once for not meeting the caster level prerequisite. So the DC would actually only be 14+5=19.
Now, SHOULD it be +5 per missing caster level? Probably. But that's not RAW, and would be a house rule.
I give that to you but either way you add totaly do able at that level.
If put build togher that had more Sneak attack Dice than a straight rouge would that be broken?
Is the Ring of Wizardry Broken because it gives me twice the number of spells per day at levels 1 or 2 or 3?
Ioun Stones Orange Prism +1 caster level 30,000 gp
Gives any Caster one hole level more of spell per day. Is that Broken as well.
Is weapon focus broke because it give fighter A bigger BaB than fighter B?
The point I am make is tons way to get a get ahead of the curve in power in the game.
If put build togher that had more Sneak attack Dice than a straight rouge would that be broken?
Can you do so?
Is the Ring of Wizardry Broken because it gives me twice the number of spells per day at levels 1 or 2 or 3?
That's well beyond appropriate wealth per level.
Ioun Stones Orange Prism +1 caster level 30,000 gp
Gives any Caster one hole level more of spell per day. Is that Broken as well.
It might be, if it actually worked that way.
Is weapon focus broke because it give fighter A bigger BaB than fighter B?
Again, probably, if that's what the feat actually did.
It does work, and though it's similar to sneak attack, it's not sneak attack, and even if it was, it's 1d6 which is the same as a level 1 rogue (who could also benefit from the feat once he qualifies).
I walks like a duck, talks like a duck ....it is a duck. Point is if rouge A takes that feat they have more Snaek attack Dice in a flank than Rouge B. Is that fair to rouge B who has another feat? Yes because they took feat to do something else.
What this hole thread is about fairness in builds and power scale.
Is fair for one build A ahead of the power curve in some aspect vs some other build B? Yes becasue build B can get ahead in some other aspet of game they see fit.
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What this hole thread is about fairness in builds and power scale.
Actually, that's not what this thread is about. If it were about that, it'd be in the General Discussion forum. This thread is about how things actually work in the rules, regardless of anyone's opinions on the resulting power (im)balance.
If put build togher that had more Sneak attack Dice than a straight rouge would that be broken?Can you do so?
Yes
Rouge 1 Alchemist(Vivisectionist)1 2 sneak attack dice at level 2 vs rouge at level 2 only having 1Is the Ring of Wizardry Broken because it gives me twice the number of spells per day at levels 1 or 2 or 3?That's well beyond appropriate wealth per level.
Never talk about wealth or level... is it black or white? yes or no? right or wrong, A or B?Ioun Stones Orange Prism +1 caster level 30,000 gp
Gives any Caster one hole level more of spell per day. Is that Broken as well.
It might be, if it actually worked that way.
What other way would it work?
Is weapon focus broke because it give fighter A bigger BaB than fighter B?Again, probably, if that's what the feat actually did.
Weapon Focus (Combat)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.