Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

Animal Companions and Boon Companion


Rules Questions

1 to 50 of 54 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Grand Lodge

18 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required.
Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Tales Subscriber

After an exhaustive search through the boards and reading hundreds of posts, I still cannot locate an official ruling on how Boon Companion works. In the case of a multi-classed druid, it is clear that the level of your companion is boosted up to four levels with a cap of your character level. So a fighter-4/druid-4 would get an 8th level companion. Likewise, a fighter-10/druid-2 is capped with a 6th level companion.

The confusion comes with the application of the feat to classes (ranger, paladin, cleric with animal domain, etc) that have a reduced "effective" druid level for their companion. Does this feat boost a single-class ranger's companion to his class level or is the companion still restricted to the ranger's effective druid level (level-3)?? This has come up in both my home-game and PFS with compelling arguments on both sides. Yes, I know that I/we can use GM caveat and rule either way, but is there an OFFICIAL ruling from Paizo that can be used as reference for this issue?

Osirion

What's the argument for capping the ranger's effective druid level at ranger level -3?

It seems to me that the generic rule (stated in the ranger class) is trumped by the specific rule (Boon Companion).


Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.

Emphasis mine. It would be, in the rangers case, the equivalent to a druid +1 (originaly -3 then +4) but caps at his level. So a ranger with this feat would have the equivalent to a druid's animal companion, equal to his level. It's just from a limited list.

My 2 cp.


Kryzbyn wrote:

Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.

Emphasis mine. It would be, in the rangers case, the equivalent to a druid +1 (originaly -3 then +4) but caps at his level. So a ranger with this feat would have the equivalent to a druid's animal companion, equal to his level. It's just from a limited list.

My 2 cp.

That's how I read it as well. Also a Ranger 8/Fighter 1 with the Boon Companion feat would have the a 9th level Druid's animal companion.

-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Tales Subscriber

I appreciate everyone's responses, but these are the same things that have been posted in previous threads. I am not really looking to start another one with the same people posting their interpretations of the feat. Just wondering if anyone knows of a more official ruling? As this impacts PFS organized play, we kind of need an answer.


TwilightKnight wrote:
I appreciate everyone's responses, but these are the same things that have been posted in previous threads. I am not really looking to start another one with the same people posting their interpretations of the feat. Just wondering if anyone knows of a more official ruling? As this impacts PFS organized play, we kind of need an answer.

I thought it was pretty cut n dry. What other possible interpretation are you running into?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I haven't seen an errata on the Feat. The feat works fine as written. I can see why one might think there is mistake in this feat. Seems like this should be druid feat but really it benefits Rangers, Paladins, or Clerics with Animal domain. If you look at it as Druid only feat it looks like Mistake. I think it would be hard to miss the potential uses of the feat as written though so I doubt it was mistake. I think it was designed with Rangers in mind.

Osirion

TwilightKnight wrote:
I appreciate everyone's responses, but these are the same things that have been posted in previous threads. I am not really looking to start another one with the same people posting their interpretations of the feat. Just wondering if anyone knows of a more official ruling? As this impacts PFS organized play, we kind of need an answer.

What's the justification for the less beneficial interpretation? (I really don't see *how* this is a question, what's the opposing argument?)

Taldor

I can't find the post right now, but the designer who originally wrote the feat made a post explaining that the original intention of creating the feat feat was to "patch" the Ranger so that the class could have a full animal companion.

So yeah, it's meant to wipe away the -3 level rule, though it can be used in other ways also.

I've got a character that is mainly a rogue/fighter, but I did a one level dip into druid at 5th level, used boon companion, so that now I've got a permanent 5th level animal companion flank buddy.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TwilightKnight wrote:

After an exhaustive search through the boards and reading hundreds of posts, I still cannot locate an official ruling on how Boon Companion works. In the case of a multi-classed druid, it is clear that the level of your companion is boosted up to four levels with a cap of your character level. So a fighter-4/druid-4 would get an 8th level companion. Likewise, a fighter-10/druid-2 is capped with a 6th level companion.

The confusion comes with the application of the feat to classes (ranger, paladin, cleric with animal domain, etc) that have a reduced "effective" druid level for their companion. Does this feat boost a single-class ranger's companion to his class level or is the companion still restricted to the ranger's effective druid level (level-3)?? This has come up in both my home-game and PFS with compelling arguments on both sides. Yes, I know that I/we can use GM caveat and rule either way, but is there an OFFICIAL ruling from Paizo that can be used as reference for this issue?

Well a Ranger 4/Magus 2, has a total character level of 6 and a effective Druid level of 1 for thier Animal Companion. If you take the Boon Companion feat this would give them a effective Druid level of 5 for the animal companion. I would say this would increase by 1 for every level of Ranger they take.

This is how I see this feat as working.

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber

My search-fu is besterest! :D

This is the thread in which Russ Taylor confirms the intent of the feat..

The key quotes are:

Just wanted to confirm the reading of Boon Companion. It was designed with rangers and muticlassed characters in mind.

Maximum "bonus" is probably unfortunate wording (not sure if it was in the original draft), but basically, you calculate the abilities of an animal companion or familiar as though your level was four level higher, to a maximum of your actual character level. So a ranger could get the abilities of an animal companion of up to their character level, as opposed to their ranger level - 3. If they've multiclassed, it might still be less than their charater level.


voska66 wrote:
I haven't seen an errata on the Feat. The feat works fine as written.

Really?

Krzybyn wrote:
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.

(emphasis changed)

So, a 5th-level druid's animal companion's abilities are calculated as though he were a 9th-level druid, if he has this feat?

:-)


Distant Scholar wrote:
voska66 wrote:
I haven't seen an errata on the Feat. The feat works fine as written.

Really?

Krzybyn wrote:
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.

(emphasis changed)

So, a 5th-level druid's animal companion's abilities are calculated as though he were a 9th-level druid, if he has this feat?

:-)

NO, not unless he had 4 levels in something else. Your druid's CHARACTER level is 5. If he were Druid 5/ Cavalier 4 than his CHARACTER level is 9. (5+4=9) Seems like you may be confusing Character levels and class levels. dunno. I agree. The feat seems very fine as written.

Andoran

Greg Wasson wrote:
Distant Scholar wrote:
voska66 wrote:
I haven't seen an errata on the Feat. The feat works fine as written.

Really?

Krzybyn wrote:
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.

(emphasis changed)

So, a 5th-level druid's animal companion's abilities are calculated as though he were a 9th-level druid, if he has this feat?

:-)

NO, not unless he had 4 levels in something else. Your druid's CHARACTER level is 5. If he were Druid 5/ Cavalier 4 than his CHARACTER level is 9. (5+4=9) Seems like you may be confusing Character levels and class levels. dunno. I agree. The feat seems very fine as written.

The RAW is that the bonus is a maximum of the character level, and also limited by 4 levels above current level. The RAI is likely to a maximum upper value of the character level. The rule is poorly written. This is a prime candidate for OrgPlay problems.


Howie23 wrote:


The RAW is that the bonus is a maximum of the character level, and also limited by 4 levels above current level. The RAI is likely to a maximum upper value of the character level. The rule is poorly written. This is a prime candidate for OrgPlay problems.

Okay, not trying to be a wisearse here, but I do not see the different interpretation. So going to try and break it down and maybe someone can clairify it for me. My perception in the real world is good for seeing brick walls in front of me...but little else.


Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature

Lets do a wizard-1/fighter-19 (character level 20)
and a ranger-6 (character level 6)

first part:

The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher

wizard gets familiar at 1st level. normally done. However he has feat, so it is his wizard level plus 4. So his familiar attributes are determined as if it were level 5.

Ranger is 6..his companion is normally three less than his level.. so now it is a three..BUT he has feat so it becomes seven. Great so he gets a companion as if he were seventh level.

to a maximum bonus equal to your character level.

wizard/fighter is 20 character level no problem here.

so familiar is 5th on chart for abilities.

UH OH ranger is a character level of 6. so the companion is maxed out at 6. Because 7 is higher than the character level.

I don't see the issue. Please show me an example of how it doesn't work this way. I actually want to understand :)

Taldor

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Greg Wasson wrote:
I don't see the issue. Please show me an example of how it doesn't work this way. I actually want to understand :)

The reason that some people want errata for the feat is that the wording has some ambiguity:

Multi-class Ranger

Does the feat give a ranger4/fighter3 the animal companion of a level 7 ranger, or a level 7 druid?

It isn't made clear and although a reader sensitive to the nuances of the game might understand what is meant to happen a literal reading of the feat could leave this character with either the animal companion of a ranger7 or a druid7. They should actually get the animal companion of a druid5

Single-class Ranger

For a straight ranger, the feat description does not make it clear if the ranger gets any benefit at all from the feat.

Does he/she get the maximum level animal companion of a ranger?
If so then the feat has no effect on a ranger.

Or does he/she get the maximum level animal companion as if he/she were a druid?
If so then the ranger's animal companion gets a boost.

The intent of the feat when taken by rangers is to give them an animal companion equal to a druid of the same level.

The feat also allows multiclass characters to give a boost to their animal companion.

The way that the two abilities are combined in one feat has led to some confused wording.

I have already posted the official word on the feat in this thread.

Here is my updated version, including Ross Taylor's errata:

Boon Companion
Your bond with your animal companion or familiar is
unusually close.
Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class ability.
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or
familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels
higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level.
If you have more than one animal companion or familiar,
choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an
animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the
replacement creature.
Rangers may regard their 'character level' as equivalent to a
druid's 'character level' for the purposes of this feat.

Special: You may select this feat more than once. The
effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a
different animal companion or familiar.

In all honesty, I think a complete rewording is needed to remove the ambiguity but it is a neat feat and I'm glad it's in the game.

Edit: Actually, I think it would have been better if this was split into two simple feats
1: Close Bond
A ranger with this feat can treat his effective druid level as equal to his ranger level.
Special: You may select this feat more than once. The
effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a
different animal companion.
Normal: A ranger's animal companion is calculated with an effective druid level of ranger level -3.

2: The Boon Companion feat


The description says YOUR CLASS..not druid, not ranger, not wizard...YOUR CLASS. The class YOU'RE playing is YOUR class.
There is no ambiguity here. I'm baffled.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Tales Subscriber
Kryzbyn wrote:

The description says YOUR CLASS..not druid, not ranger, not wizard...YOUR CLASS. The class YOU'RE playing is YOUR class.

There is no ambiguity here. I'm baffled.

Are you saying that Boon Companion would have no impact for a single-classed ranger?


TwilightKnight wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

The description says YOUR CLASS..not druid, not ranger, not wizard...YOUR CLASS. The class YOU'RE playing is YOUR class.

There is no ambiguity here. I'm baffled.
Are you saying that Boon Companion would have no impact for a single-classed ranger?

No, I'm saying that as written, the feat is not abiguous at all.

It plainly states that YOUR CLASS (in this case a ranger) treats his animal companion as 4 levels higher, because of the closer bond with it. Rangers normally get animal companions at 3 levels lower on the animal companion chart. So now with this feat, for a single class ranger it would make it equal to his level. You look on the animal companion chart, find the ranger's current level, and there you go!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Tales Subscriber
Kryzbyn wrote:
There is no ambiguity here

I wish I could agree, but based on all the feedback in this thread and others, it's not so clear. The issue is what is being referenced by the last part of the text...

"The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level."

To me, the bold section is the issue. Does the "maximum bonus" refer to the character's level or the companion's level. Using the first interpretation, a single-class ranger is capped by his level. Since the effective level of his companion is level-3, taking the feat grants nothing. The other interpretation has the maximum referring to the companion. In this version, the animal's level is capped by the character's level. So it would "level-up" to that of the ranger. From Russ' post referenced by GeraintElberion, it would seem (although not emphatically) that the latter is the case.

Andoran

Greg Wasson wrote:
Howie23 wrote:


The RAW is that the bonus is a maximum of the character level, and also limited by 4 levels above current level. The RAI is likely to a maximum upper value of the character level. The rule is poorly written. This is a prime candidate for OrgPlay problems.

Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature

UH OH ranger is a character level of 6. so the companion is maxed out at 6. Because 7 is higher than the character level.

I don't see the issue. Please show me an example of how it doesn't work this way. I actually want to understand :)

A bonus is the difference between normal and what you get. A maximum bonus equal to your character level is...welll... abonus equal to your character level. There is no stated maximum equal to your character level. Rather, there is a stated maximum bonus equal to your character level.

Your ranger 6 gets animal companion 7 (6-3+4, where 4 is less than his character level of 6).

In addition, druid 6 gets animal companion 10, where the bonus of +4 is less than his character level of 6.

That is the RAW. It seems to be an error vs what the author intended. Until errata'd, it's an OrgPlay nightmare.

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Kryzbyn wrote:
TwilightKnight wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

The description says YOUR CLASS..not druid, not ranger, not wizard...YOUR CLASS. The class YOU'RE playing is YOUR class.

There is no ambiguity here. I'm baffled.
Are you saying that Boon Companion would have no impact for a single-classed ranger?

No, I'm saying that as written, the feat is not ambiguous at all.

It plainly states that YOUR CLASS (in this case a ranger) treats his animal companion as 4 levels higher, because of the closer bond with it. Rangers normally get animal companions at 3 levels lower on the animal companion chart. So now with this feat, for a single class ranger it would make it equal to his level. You look on the animal companion chart, find the ranger's current level, and there you go!

The conflict comes with the ambiguity of class level and character level.

I think I have explained what is going on to the best of my abilities.

All that is left is to point out something that I thought was obvious, please read this carefully as my explanations can be long-winded. I wish I could be more concise but this will have to do:

While it is possible to be more or less precise with your use of the English language it is ultimately an art, not a science.
Words, phrasing, structure, grammar, presentation... all of these things are open to interpretation.
Great writing makes allowance for a rich array of perception and interpretation.
The phrasing of this feat matches your interpretation of the language, it seems obvious to you but there are conflicts in the meaning.
That you do not need errata for this feat does not mean that this feat does not need errata for somebody else.

If this isn't clear enough:

I recently read this poem to my partner, she had a similar but significantly different interpretation to me. Neither of us is *wrong* and I'm sure Lawrence was exploiting the ambiguities and complexities of his text despite using fairly plain vocabulary.
If a poem can be ambiguous, or seem clear to one person and opaque to another, so can a feat description.

Song of a Man Who Has Come Through
- D.H.Lawrence

Not I, not I, but the wind that blows through me!
A fine wind is blowing the new direction of Time.
If only I let it bear me, carry me, if only it carry me!
If only I am sensitive, subtle, oh, delicate, a winged gift!
If only, most lovely of all, I yield myself and am borrowed
By the fine, fine, wind that takes its course through the chaos of the world
Like a fine, an exquisite chisel, a wedge-blade inserted;
If only I am keen and hard like the sheer tip of a wedge
Driven by invisible blows,
The rock will split, we shall come at the wonder, we shall find the Hesperides.

Oh, for the wonder that bubbles into my soul,
I would be a good fountain, a good well-head,
Would blur no whisper, spoil no expression.

What is the knocking?
What is the knocking at the door in the night?
It is somebody wants to do us harm.

No, no, it is the three strange angels.
Let them come in.


GeraintElberion wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
TwilightKnight wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

The description says YOUR CLASS..not druid, not ranger, not wizard...YOUR CLASS. The class YOU'RE playing is YOUR class.

There is no ambiguity here. I'm baffled.
Are you saying that Boon Companion would have no impact for a single-classed ranger?

No, I'm saying that as written, the feat is not ambiguous at all.

It plainly states that YOUR CLASS (in this case a ranger) treats his animal companion as 4 levels higher, because of the closer bond with it. Rangers normally get animal companions at 3 levels lower on the animal companion chart. So now with this feat, for a single class ranger it would make it equal to his level. You look on the animal companion chart, find the ranger's current level, and there you go!

The conflict comes with the ambiguity of class level and character level.

I think I have explained what is going on to the best of my abilities.

All that is left is to point out something that I thought was obvious, please read this carefully as my explanations can be long-winded. I wish I could be more concise but this will have to do:

While it is possible to be more or less precise with your use of the English language it is ultimately an art, not a science.
Words, phrasing, structure, grammar, presentation... all of these things are open to interpretation.
Great writing makes allowance for a rich array of perception and interpretation.
The phrasing of this feat matches your interpretation of the language, it seems obvious to you but there are conflicts in the meaning.
That you do not need errata for this feat does not mean that this feat does not need errata for somebody else.

If this isn't clear enough:

I recently read this poem to my partner, she had a similar but significantly different interpretation to me. Neither of us is *wrong* and I'm sure Lawrence was exploiting the ambiguities and complexities of his text despite using fairly plain vocabulary.
If a...

If pathfinder rules were written in prose and metaphor, I could see your point. But when it says under x circumstances, y happens, I don't see the issue. But, to each their own, I guess.

This may sound bad, and I apologize in advance if it does, but this seems more a reading comprehension issue than an interpretation issue.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Tales Subscriber
Kryzbyn wrote:
This may sound bad, and I apologize in advance if it does, but this seems more a reading comprehension issue than an interpretation issue.

I'm not an English major so perhaps my comprehension skills are lacking. It is just not clear whether the last part, "maximum bonus equal to your character level" applies directly to the animal companion or to your class level. If the latter, a ranger-6 with this skill is still a ranger-6. Since his effective druid level is -3, the feat would have no effect.

Howie23 wrote:

Your ranger 6 gets animal companion 7 (6-3+4, where 4 is less than his character level of 6).

In addition, druid 6 gets animal companion 10, where the bonus of +4 is less than his character level of 6.

I definitely do not agree with this. Regardless of the interpretation, there is no way that the RAW supports a companion with a higher level than the total character level of the PC.


TwilightKnight wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
This may sound bad, and I apologize in advance if it does, but this seems more a reading comprehension issue than an interpretation issue.

I'm not an English major so perhaps my comprehension skills are lacking. It is just not clear whether the last part, "maximum bonus equal to your character level" applies directly to the animal companion or to your class level. If the latter, a ranger-6 with this skill is still a ranger-6. Since his effective druid level is -3, the feat would have no effect.

Howie23 wrote:

Your ranger 6 gets animal companion 7 (6-3+4, where 4 is less than his character level of 6).

In addition, druid 6 gets animal companion 10, where the bonus of +4 is less than his character level of 6.

I definitely do not agree with this. Regardless of the interpretation, there is no way that the RAW supports a companion with a higher level than the total character level of the PC.

It doesn't. A level 6 druid can only have a level 6 companion. A single class druid does not benefit from this feat, RAW.

The reason why it works for a ranger is becasue his companion is the ranger's level, minus 3. This feat raises it to ranger's level becasue it cant be over his level.

Andoran

Kryzbyn wrote:
TwilightKnight wrote:


I definitely do not agree with this. Regardless of the interpretation, there is no way that the RAW supports a companion with a higher level than the total character level of the PC.

It doesn't. A level 6 druid can only have a level 6 companion. A single class druid does not benefit from this feat, RAW.

The reason why it works for a ranger is becasue his companion is the ranger's level, minus 3. This feat raises it to ranger's level becasue it cant be over his level.

I don't agree with it either. I also think it is what is written. Thus the need for errata.

Please cite the rule that limits a companion to max level of his master's level.

(To be clear...I agree with you that this is the intent. If there is a rules based argument that supports your position, I'd love to see it. It would both remove the need for errata and become merely FAQ.)


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Howie23 wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
TwilightKnight wrote:


I definitely do not agree with this. Regardless of the interpretation, there is no way that the RAW supports a companion with a higher level than the total character level of the PC.

It doesn't. A level 6 druid can only have a level 6 companion. A single class druid does not benefit from this feat, RAW.

The reason why it works for a ranger is becasue his companion is the ranger's level, minus 3. This feat raises it to ranger's level becasue it cant be over his level.

I don't agree with it either. I also think it is what is written. Thus the need for errata.

Please cite the rule that limits a companion to max level of his master's level.

(To be clear...I agree with you that this is the intent. If there is a rules based argument that supports your position, I'd love to see it. It would both remove the need for errata and become merely FAQ.)

I see. The word bonus is the problem.

I apologize.
Its saying the animal gets a bonus of +4 to its level on the chart, but that bonus can not exceed your characters level.
1st level druid takes this feat he does not get a level 5 companion, because his level is 1. +4 exceeds his level.
But for higher level druids...yes that is worded rather poorly.


Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature

Maybe it is the "bonus" part under contention. I see the "bonus" as being the higher level critter. (familiar/companion/whatever). So a ranger figures his companion at a druid's level -3 The "bonus" takes it up four more levels. Ranger ends up figuring his companion at druid level+1 now. HOWEVER, if his character level is not the same or higher than the bonus. The MAXIMUM bonus is equal to his character levels.. NOT class level..total levels.

Actually, I started this thinking I could see the other arguement. Thought I was onto something. I just don't see it though.

Class+4 =critter level on table

if ends up being greater than character level than lower to max CHARACTER level.

Maybe someone with math skills can write it up as a formula... I "dunt" got dem skilz. :/

wasgreg

omg Ninja'd!! my first!! *wimpers*


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Man, the 3.5 equivalent of this feat had so much less contention. Really, there only needs to be ONE change in the wording this feat to make it clear.

Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.

There we go. See? No confusion if written like this.

Andoran

Bard-Sader wrote:

Man, the 3.5 equivalent of this feat had so much less contention. Really, there only needs to be ONE change in the wording this feat to make it clear.

Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.

There we go. See? No confusion if written like this.

Agreed so let me get this straight, a Ranger 4/Fighter 1 has an effective Druid Animal Companion level 5.

Ranger level 4 - 3 = level 1 companion
Fighter level 1 added still = level 1 companion
Boon Companion becomes 4 + 1 = 5
So the result is;
Ranger 4/Fighter 1 with Animal Companion level 5

Right?

That's how I see it anyway.

Taldor

Moonklaw wrote:

Ranger level 4 - 3 = level 1 companion

Fighter level 1 added still = level 1 companion
Boon Companion becomes 4 + 1 = 5
So the result is;
Ranger 4/Fighter 1 with Animal Companion level 5

Right?

Yes.

Boon Companion is great for any character that wants to have a decent mount or pet. Just dip 1 level into Druid at character level 5 and out pops a 5th level companion.

So you could have a fighter for four levels, then one level of druid + boon companion to get a cool mount, and then go back into fighter.

What's also great is that since the animal companion is level 5 they get +1 to an ability. Give it to their Int, plus give them linguistics 1 in common, and then you can wave aside all of the handle animal checks AND the companion can now take any feat they qualify for, rather than just those on the animal companion list because their Int is now 3.


That's how it works. Although personally I think one ought to be allowed to take the feat multiple times and have it apply to the same companion. It's not a broken feat by any stretch of the imagination.

Osirion

Can't you just remove this ranger's ability to cast spells & in exchange have a full animal companion? I think that's very fair. & It may be one of the archetypes in the APG? I'll have to check..

edit: Oh sorry, official, I see. No idea then


zabei wrote:
Can't you just remove this ranger's ability to cast spells & in exchange have a full animal companion? I think that's very fair. & It may be one of the archetypes in the APG? I'll have to check..

The Beastmaster archetype gets this at level 12, with the added advantage (?) of having multiple animal companions to split those levels amongst.

Contributor

11 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata. 38 people marked this as a favorite.
Bard-Sader wrote:


Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.

This would make it clearer. And yes, you can take the feat if you're a single-classed ranger. It's actually pretty sweet deal.

Currently we don't have a place to post FAQ/update material for books other than the Pathfinder RPG hardcovers, so I can't attach this to a permanent FAQ, but consider this an official ruling on this question.

Andoran

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Bard-Sader wrote:


Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.

This would make it clearer. And yes, you can take the feat if you're a single-classed ranger. It's actually pretty sweet deal.

Currently we don't have a place to post FAQ/update material for books other than the Pathfinder RPG hardcovers, so I can't attach this to a permanent FAQ, but consider this an official ruling on this question.

I command this thread to work!!!!

Andoran

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Bard-Sader wrote:


Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.

This would make it clearer. And yes, you can take the feat if you're a single-classed ranger. It's actually pretty sweet deal.

Currently we don't have a place to post FAQ/update material for books other than the Pathfinder RPG hardcovers, so I can't attach this to a permanent FAQ, but consider this an official ruling on this question.

I command this thread to work!!!!

Edit: I Said Work!!!

Andoran

I have to admit, until these forums I was not even aware of a confusion for this feat. I had always seen it as simple. Pet gets +4 lvl. Ranger pet default is Ranger lvl -3. Add 4 to that and you end up with a +1 bonus lvl which is ignored unless you multiclassed.

I think the only reason this rule became an issue is because as you can see in these forums, there are a lot of people who over analse every inch of the rules and make things seem more complicated than they are


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Bard-Sader wrote:


Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.

This would make it clearer. And yes, you can take the feat if you're a single-classed ranger. It's actually pretty sweet deal.

Currently we don't have a place to post FAQ/update material for books other than the Pathfinder RPG hardcovers, so I can't attach this to a permanent FAQ, but consider this an official ruling on this question.

Thank you SKR.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Now, can a Beast Master Ranger take this multiple times (once for each Companion)?
The feat does state it can be taken more than once, but is it referring the the creature of the class ability when it says,

Boon Companion wrote:
Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Oni_NZ wrote:

Now, can a Beast Master Ranger take this multiple times (once for each Companion)?

The feat does state it can be taken more than once, but is it referring the the creature of the class ability when it says,
Boon Companion wrote:
Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.

Strict RAW reading : It says you may take it multiple times. Each time you take it, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar. Not a different classes's animal companion or familiar, not different class perks, different animal companions.

As written, if he is a 5th level Beast Master Ranger, he can have two 1st level companions. If he takes the feat, he can have one 5th level companion, and one 1st level companion. Then in two levels, he can take the feat again and have one 5th level companion (the original 5th level companion) and one 7th level (the second one, who has had 2 levels added to him, at 6th and 7th). If he wants to add a 3rd companion at 8th level, he can then take the feat again at 9th level for the 3rd companion, making it also a 6th level companion).

Now, it may be errata'd, but I'd expect the ranger archtype to be errata'd, not the feat.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Bard-Sader wrote:


Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level of equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit.

This would make it clearer. And yes, you can take the feat if you're a single-classed ranger. It's actually pretty sweet deal.

Currently we don't have a place to post FAQ/update material for books other than the Pathfinder RPG hardcovers, so I can't attach this to a permanent FAQ, but consider this an official ruling on this question.

How would this feat work with the Animal Domain?


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

The same as a ranger, why would it work any differently?


Bah, and my GM denies it to me. So sad.
Thanks for the clarification, SKR!

Ruyan.

Shadow Lodge

leo1925 wrote:
The same as a ranger, why would it work any differently?

Because it effectively gives the druid a domain for a feat.


Can a cleric who takes Animal domain, use Boon Companion to boost their effective level as well?

Andoran

Greg Wasson wrote:
NO, not unless he had 4 levels in something else. Your druid's CHARACTER level is 5. If he were Druid 5/ Cavalier 4 than his CHARACTER level is 9. (5+4=9)

Note that a drui5/cava4 wouldn't need the feat because druid stacks with any other class granting a mount.

(...unless this multiclassed cavalier doesn't want to ride a horse -- then the feat is useful.)

Qadira

Geoffrey Nicholls wrote:
Can a cleric who takes Animal domain, use Boon Companion to boost their effective level as well?

Yes. A Cleric with animal domain, or for that matter, a Druid with animal domain, could take this feat. the wording on the animal companion is the same as the level restriction wording on the Ranger animal companion.

The purpose of the feat is to patch an animal compaion -3 with a feat. If you're a class that has an animal companion -3, then you get a great benefit from this.

Qadira

Mike Schneider wrote:
Greg Wasson wrote:
NO, not unless he had 4 levels in something else. Your druid's CHARACTER level is 5. If he were Druid 5/ Cavalier 4 than his CHARACTER level is 9. (5+4=9)

Note that a drui5/cava4 wouldn't need the feat because druid stacks with any other class granting a mount.

(...unless this multiclassed cavalier doesn't want to ride a horse -- then the feat is useful.)

a druid 1/cavalier 4 would have a 5th Effective Druid Level companion, and gain the breadth of the druid's choices for what type of animal companion. he does not need a feat to expand these choices. he gets that expanded selection by taking a level in druid.

Andoran

Seraphimpunk wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:

Note that a drui5/cava4 wouldn't need the feat because druid stacks with any other class granting a mount.

(...unless this multiclassed cavalier doesn't want to ride a horse -- then the feat is useful.)

a druid 1/cavalier 4 would have a 5th Effective Druid Level companion, and gain the breadth of the druid's choices for what type of animal companion. he does not need a feat to expand these choices. he gets that expanded selection by taking a level in druid.

It seems like a good plan...until he takes cavalier 5 and the mount doesn't advance (if he applied Boon Companion to druid).

1 to 50 of 54 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Animal Companions and Boon Companion All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.