Goblin Squad Member
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For those who may have, in the excitement of the KickStarter campaign, purchased a guild package for what turns out to be you and 5 alts -
Your enthusiasm is commendable.
Your assistance in getting PFO funded and fast-tracked is appreciated.
That said, given your relative strength, and ultimate inability to defend a settlement, the following is inevitable:
All Your Base Are Belong To Us
However, all is not lost. An offer of asylum has been extended. Please review that offer here.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Every guild does not need to own or defend a settlement. Plus given the nature of the contract and alliance system one big guild picking on the little guilds my find that they are now the prey, possibly hunted to extinction. Elite and or powerful groups through out history also tend to be small in number.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh look the PVP monkeys are pontificating and threatening the soloers.. nice to see nothing changes whatever the MMO.
May be hard to believe but just because you CAN destroy someones buildings doesnt mean everyone WILL for no reason at all other than because they are there.
Also I think you'll find in any mmo MOST guilds are smaller guilds onsisiting of a half dozen or less people and thats PERFECTLY okay.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I still like the idea of upgrading the buldings in your settlement like youo were playing Heroes of Might and Magic... you know, where you build the mage's tower and suddenly your settlement defense is supplemented by wizards casting fireball?
A really successful small settlement might find an answer to the battery of catapults then.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh look the PVP monkeys are pontificating and threatening the soloers.. nice to see nothing changes whatever the MMO.
May be hard to believe but just because you CAN destroy someones buildings doesnt mean everyone WILL for no reason at all other than because they are there.
Also I think you'll find in any mmo MOST guilds are smaller guilds onsisiting of a half dozen or less people and thats PERFECTLY okay.
Unfortunate as it may be, in a territory control game numbers are essential. Therefore, as much as anyone might want to root for the "little guy", they will eventually be taken out by someone bigger and stronger.
***OFFER OF ASYLUM***
Anyone who currently owns a guild, and who knows in his or her heart of hearts that his or her small band of friends will find it disheartening to fall to the organized and evil force that my band represents, and would find it equally disheartening to be claimed by one of the goody-goody large guilds down the road, you have an offer extended now. Cede your guild to this organization, and you will be granted asylum within its ranks. You would not be viewed as weak, but as decisive and clear headed. Your guild could be massive before early access, instead of a noble (but hollow) signifier of your enthusiasm for PFO. You would demonstrate that you control your destiny (a powerful demonstration), or the loss of your settlement by force will ultimately be remembered by you alone. Decide now. Resistance is futile.
*********************
Some of you wish to fight for the forces of Evil. Allow me to give you that extra *nudge* in the right direction. Alone, and fractured, we cannot hope to stand up to these haughty forces of "good" but together, united, we will stand strong. Accept our offer of asylum, join us, and get in on the ground floor of something which is truly a wonder to behold. Aid us in our quest for dominance, conquest and supremacy. In return, the riches of this world shall be yours.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh look the PVP monkeys are pontificating and threatening the soloers.. nice to see nothing changes whatever the MMO.
May be hard to believe but just because you CAN destroy someones buildings doesnt mean everyone WILL for no reason at all other than because they are there.
Also I think you'll find in any mmo MOST guilds are smaller guilds onsisiting of a half dozen or less people and thats PERFECTLY okay.
Establishing and running a guild is a VERY different matter from trying to run and defend a settlement.
Given that this thread links to one that makes the emphasis of what he is saying about settlements, not the guilds themselves, nevermind soloers, there is a lot about what you just said that in no way fits or makes sense.
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Goblin Squad Member
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While you work out the particulars of what would make sense to you, you might be missing the inevitable gravity of the moment. Does lightning make sense when it sets a home ablaze? Does a wave make sense when it takes out a coastal community?
The undeniably menacing thing that exists just outside of your peripheral vision is very real, even if it doesn't always make sense.
(Edited to remove erroneous direction of post. Apologies)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does lightning make sense when it sets a home ablaze? Does a wave make sense when it takes out a coastal community?
Yes, Mr. O'Reilly, and the tides make sense too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does lightning make sense when it sets a home ablaze? Does a wave make sense when it takes out a coastal community?Yes, Mr. O'Reilly, and the tides make sense too.
Bill O'Reilly...I love that video.
Especially after a monumentally retarded statement like that, how can he still have a job? Even ideological nutjob networks have to have some kind of minimal standards, and it blows my mind that those standards are low enough for even O'Reilly to pass.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh look the PVP monkeys are pontificating and threatening the soloers.. nice to see nothing changes whatever the MMO.
May be hard to believe but just because you CAN destroy someones buildings doesnt mean everyone WILL for no reason at all other than because they are there.
Also I think you'll find in any mmo MOST guilds are smaller guilds onsisiting of a half dozen or less people and thats PERFECTLY okay.
Have you considered the possibility he is 'role-playing' in an effort to drum up some support for his planned guild?
I know it's almost a completely lost art in MMO's but really, he has hardly said anything offensive.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You forget that the tenacity of we noble races of Golarian are founded upon the precipice of unshakable courage and ravenous determination. Though small in stature, we can make more waves than your tsunami ever could! One day, when your tyranny has gone too far, we shall unite, one and all and destroy you. Then we shall scatter your broken faction to the four corners of crusader road where you will be left to wallow and seethe in your wicked filth for years to come! FOR THE FREE ROADS!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh look the PVP monkeys are pontificating and threatening the soloers.. nice to see nothing changes whatever the MMO.
May be hard to believe but just because you CAN destroy someones buildings doesnt mean everyone WILL for no reason at all other than because they are there.
Also I think you'll find in any mmo MOST guilds are smaller guilds onsisiting of a half dozen or less people and thats PERFECTLY okay.
Have you considered the possibility he is 'role-playing' in an effort to drum up some support for his planned guild?
I know it's almost a completely lost art in MMO's but really, he has hardly said anything offensive.
Ive played enough MMO's for enough years to know that sort of pontificating is not RP. Its a run of the mill "I think buying a guild for one person or more is stupid and our guild is going to wipe the floor with you"..run of the mill 10 years old chest puffing exercise.
The more sensible heads and guilds see the benefit of keeping smaller settlements and guilds around that can be trusted near thier own areas of influence as it adds extra layers of defence, extra info, extra contacts, extra services etc... just wiping out people for no reason doesn't make it evil it makes it stupid.
Evil isn't dumb its calculating, methodical and driven. If it requires a death it is to serve some end or further some goal.. it isn't merely because "its there". you know :) The whole notion of im evil therefore i just kill stuff because is a great disservice to the word and its true implication.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Evil is so not descriptive...
What I call Evil could be what you call Good...
Is killing bad?... You say YES
Tiger kills you to feed her young... Good for the Tiger but Evil to you...
You kill a cow to feed yourself... The cow thinks you Evil you think Your doing Good...
In game Guild kills intruders = same problem (sure you can argue that they can be killed b/c they attked you first but killing is killing just b/c it is justified doesn't NOT make the act itself Good).
Guilds saying no killing but want to expand their territory = you will have to kill soo... being killed =Evil/Killing=Good.
Only pointing out that people who say "I will RP or Align Good" they will also kill(Evil Act) when it comes down to you respawning or the other guy...
Societies/Guilds/Nations in and out of game will rationalize they are doing Good by killing the other guy...
My reason to mention this is b/c it will undoubtedly be hard for GW to draw the line in the sand and set up a system that will be fair so please be patient with them ;p
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hi!
I'm new to this forum and PF(O), but hardly new to tabletop RPGs and/or MMO games.
That said, here are my thoughts.
Mr Fulcrum's post may well mean a Game Breaker for me, and as far I'm concerned, for many people of like mentality.
As Mr Southraven (edit: sorry Mr NoeWolfen!) pointed out, Mr Fulcrum may have simply roleplayed his character/guild's edict. But I do not think so.
When Role Playing in Forums, it is a customary to add an [[IC]] (in character) Tag, to let people know what you are doing. This is not the case in Mr Fulcrum's post.
(If, by any chance, I'm mistaken and Mr Fulcrum's intentions were strictly in the spirit of RP, then I urge him to clarify)
However, it is my belief that Mr Fulcrum was half-roleplaying/half-intimidating the smaller guilds, justifying future actions in-game on behalf of his Guild and guild mates.
This is, pure and simple, Bullying.
And I hate Bullying.
(and so does Harry Dresden ;) )
I represent a small guild. We are only seven at the time, because we saw the KS campaign quite late, as most of us are of the MMO crowd and not the PF crowd.
Therefore all we had time for was a grab for a guild pack + 1 more adventurer pledge. So it is quite possible that during early enrollment only a small number of my guild will be able to be in game (but more will join when participation opens)
Can you imagine what will mean entering the game, already fearing the shadow of "join us or be constantly harassed" by larger guilds?
As I said: Game-Breaker.
This is a game, not real life. Therefore: If there is a "Stronger eats Weaker" mentality 1,5 year (!!!) before the game even breaths, then I will not try to survive it. I will not try to find a good-aligned Alliance to pay them back.
I will simply leave the game along with my guildmates, and go play my tabletop campaign or/and Neverwinder.
In case you are not aware of it, many of the sandbox ideas of this game come from EVE. EVE online has not flourished so many years because a new, small corporation (Eve guilds) cannot survive for a month.
I'll be frank - from the moment I read the first post and the rest of the thread and the many "evil" comments, I have been thinking about withdrawing the guild and trying to sell the 6 posts. I'm 40 years old. I face to many "I’m stronger than you" challenges in my everyday family/work life, to stomach them in my game.
My point: All you evil, world-eating guilds, rein your horses. Or you will be left alone, fighting each other, in a game of 500 players. Your loss, not mine.
If you read this far, thank you and sorry for the long post
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Goblin Squad Member
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Evil is so not descriptive...
What I call Evil could be what you call Good...Is killing bad?... You say YES
Tiger kills you to feed her young... Good for the Tiger but Evil to you...
You kill a cow to feed yourself... The cow thinks you Evil you think Your doing Good...
Which was the point I was making.. always in mmos you get folks saying were big bad evil... the overriding aim just to kill things.
Killing things doesnt make them bad it makes them simple.
Evil doesnt lie in the act it lies in the motivation behind the act.
Acts can be viewed as you point out differently based on perspective but the motivation behind the acts as you handily display above in the quoted examples is very much what determines if something is truly Good or Bad, necessary or unecessary.
As I say the whole if you a small guild or soloer w/alts (via his guild of 1 comment) were going to kill you doesn't make thier guild evil, it makes them fairly lazy in motivation and reasoning and bullying/griefish in nature. Killing something just because its there without knowing anything about it whether it is even a threat or maybe even a benefit to you etc.. again not evil, just simple.
This game may be a sandbox but that doesnt equate to god given right to grief and pvp others and destroy what they and those they play with spend time and money to develop and build simply BECAUSE.
People EXPECT to be harrassed by monsters, they don't EXPECT to be harrassed by every other adventurer. Even in the PnP you play the Heroes not the Villains.
Not to mention the whole If your one of those (small or one person with alts) guilds joins us or we'll kill you angle.. is just fairly underhanded and will just lead to people demanding server types or flagging so those who want to can play thier game unharrassed by angry children who just want to spoil your fun..because.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Mr Fulcrum's post may well mean a Game Breaker for me, and as far I'm concerned, for many people of like mentality.
Step 1: Look at which groups have the most members on the leader boards.
Step 2: Read up on their ideologies.Step 3: Relax. You'll be fine.
If I determine Fulcrum's little group here is having a major negative impact on this game's community I will grind it to dust. That is a promise from the leader of this game's largest organization.
Before I take any such drastic actions I will see how much of this is just harmless RP. Evil organizations are important to the health of a game's community and I won't destroy one just because they talk a big game IC.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This conversation is representative of the problems of role-playing 'evil' in a video game (or at all really).
Where is the line between 'role-playing' and 'being a jerk'?
Is it griefing if you repeatedly raid a player's caravans as he tries to send goods to a town your guild is besieging?
Is it griefing if you steal resources of a player because of no other reason than the opportunity was there and it was of benefit to you?
To properly roleplay evil against good players you do have to be at least a little 'adversarial'. In tabletops the GM always lets the players win eventually (unless he's a mean GM). In an MMO the only decider of who wins is who got the killing blow.
People who are playing good aligned guilds have certainly made no hesitation in stating they will 'hunt down and wipe out' evil players and are applauded. (Intriguingly they seem to be indicating they will be doing this right off the bat, regardless of whether or not the evil player has actually done anything to them. How.. 'good' of them...)
Evil players who do the same are accused of bullying and griefing.
I would like to play an evil character, and yes if necessary that would mean assassinating, stealing, opposing, ambushing, threatening, intimidating, whatever was appropriate (in the context of the game and my character). I would not mindlessly grief people, or roam aimlessly slaughtering. But if an opportunity to ambush and waylay came up, because of carelessness or poor planning, why should I not be able to play the character I intend?
I don't say any of this to be a jerk, I'm not out to ruin anyone else's fun, but unless we can allowed to be at least 'somewhat' evil, then there is no point in having them at all.
There'll still be conflict regardless, and people will accuse people of being jerks regardless of what alignment tag their character has.
Which was the point I was making..Evil is so not descriptive...
What I call Evil could be what you call Good...Is killing bad?... You say YES
Tiger kills you to feed her young... Good for the Tiger but Evil to you...
You kill a cow to feed yourself... The cow thinks you Evil you think Your doing Good...
@ Neo
+1Yeah Neo I know what yor saying reminds of the after game convos I use to have all the time.
@ SouthRaven
Yeah thats funny you mention the two one of my all time favorite rp's was being a jerk/comedian i like having the option to rp anything it will be good times. i hope that my toon will be infamous for it since it seems we will have some kind of reputation. Like George Carlin!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Mr Fulcrum's post may well mean a Game Breaker for me, and as far I'm concerned, for many people of like mentality.Step 1: Look at which groups have the most members on the leader boards.
Step 2: Read up on their ideologies.
Step 3: Relax. You'll be fine.If I determine Fulcrum's little group here is having a major negative impact on this game's community I will grind it to dust. That is a promise from the leader of this game's largest organization.
Before I take any such drastic actions I will see how much of this is just harmless RP. Evil organizations are important to the health of a game's community and I won't destroy one just because they talk a big game IC.
oh Trust me Mr Andius I'm a pragmatist!
I know we will be a small force, and I would greatly enjoy being part of a greater Alliance. Actually, we have already checked out the big guilds and which will be closer to our ingame philosophy.However, as I pointed out, the game is 1,5 year AWAY and instead of forming alliances I'm rushed into them - because someone is bullying us?
I said it already: if such is the case from now on, then I won't even bother with alliances, I'll wave goodbye and take my guild with it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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People who are playing good aligned guilds have certainly made no hesitation in stating they will 'hunt down and wipe out' evil players and are applauded. (Intriguingly they seem to be indicating they will be doing this right off the bat, regardless of whether or not the evil player has actually done anything to them. How.. 'good' of them...)
Really? Name the group and find the quote.
I have stated we will mercilessly wipe out griefers (Who I define as people who's primary objective is to ruin the experience of others. Characterized by targeting out newbs, abuse of game mechanics and EXCESSIVE RPKing.) I have never stated I will wipe out every organization that refers to itself as evil. Infact I have extended meta-game welcome to many of the "evil" organization of this community. As JUST stated I will only wipe out organizations that harm the community.
Examine the difference between The Bloody Hand and Goon Swarn, and examine what I plan to do about each of them. Then think about that for a bit before you make another comment like this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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oh Trust me Mr Andius I'm a pragmatist!
Then you understand that regardless of a label of 'good' or 'evil' there will be conflict.
I know we will be a small force, and I would greatly enjoy being part of a greater Alliance. Actually, we have already checked out the big guilds and which will be closer to our ingame philosophy.
And already you adapt. This is good, surely you don't want the magic 'I Win' button, surely you wish to overcome challenges and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat like the heroes of old! If you defeat a worthy foe, surely it is a greater victory.
However, as I pointed out, the game is 1,5 year AWAY and instead of forming alliances I'm rushed into them - because someone is bullying us?
I said it already: if such is the case from now on, then I won't even bother with alliances, I'll wave goodbye and take my guild with it.
Considering the game is indeed, as you say, 1 and a half years away, how can a single forum post bully you into action now? That's a year and a half to build allegiances, negotiate, learn, and instead you would walk away because of one 'vaguely' aggressive post that may or may not ever actually result in any in-game interaction at all. Steel needs to be tempered, this is a chance to light the fires of your belly and an impetus to be better! How can you pass an opportunity like that?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Really? Name the group and find the quote.I have stated we will mercilessly wipe out griefers (Who I define as people who's primary objective is to ruin the experience of others. Characterized by targeting out newbs, abuse of game mechanics and EXCESSIVE RPKing.) I have never stated I will wipe out every organization that refers to itself as evil. Infact I have extended meta-game welcome to many of the "evil" organization of this community. As JUST stated I will only wipe out organizations that harm the community.
Examine the difference between The Bloody Hand and Goon Swarn, and examine what I plan to do about each of them. Then think about that for a bit before you make another comment like this.
[IC]Judge, jury and executioner. You really should be Lawful Evil Andius. I see you in the role of the benevolent dictator, iron fist stamping out whatever you judge today to be incorrect behaviour!
I love it. I will be there the day you fall to my masters and offer yourself up to them joyously, weeping at the beauty of evil ;) [/IC]
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Goblin Squad Member
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Really? Name the group and find the quote.I have stated we will mercilessly wipe out griefers (Who I define as people who's primary objective is to ruin the experience of others. Characterized by targeting out newbs, abuse of game mechanics and EXCESSIVE RPKing.) I have never stated I will wipe out every organization that refers to itself as evil. Infact I have extended meta-game welcome to many of the "evil" organization of this community. As JUST stated I will only wipe out organizations that harm the community.
Examine the difference between The Bloody Hand and Goon Swarn, and examine what I plan to do about each of them. Then think about that for a bit before you make another comment like this.
Now out of character...
Paizo will have out of game penalties and mechanics for dealing with griefing. You certainly have made it known you plan to be GW's knight in the field, which I have mixed feelings about, as I have no idea who you are, how impartial you actually are, and whether or not you will yourself, eventually become something of a despot.
You do come off as somewhat aggressive and a little bit self-righteous in your posting. I'm not going to judge you on that, I can't speak for your intentions and I certainly am not looking for conflict here. What I am looking for, is a chance to have fun, testing my wits and skills against other players. In game we may never cross paths, and I wish you and Darth_Panic an enjoyable time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Don't worry TEO has a ruling council which distributes power equally except in times of war. Such as when reasonable doubt of magics of massive destruction has been reported in a neighboring kingdom. In that case emergency powers are granted to Andius. As you can see a safe and reasonable system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The amount of crying, hate, and despair in this thread cracks me up! If this is all it takes to get people heated, it's going to be wonderfully enjoyable being the bad guy.
To everyone calling us out about "bullying the little guy", or being "PvP Monkeys threatening the soloers" I ask you this, did you even bother to click the link and see what this thread was directing you to? We're not some massive clan bent on targeting all the small clans that hold territory and utterly destroying them. Hell, we're not even a small group that has played together in the past
If you had bothered to follow the link in the original post, you would see that it leads to a discussion where we began to discuss the concept of creating a Lawful Evil Chartered Company. We don't have the ability to threaten soloers or crush all the little clans. Cause well... we don't exist yet.
... and there drops the hammer. Our Chartered Company is still a concept. This was not a threat, but a cleverly designed recruitment post(props to Fulcrum). We honestly thought that someone who had decided to shell out the money for a guild pledge, might be interested in our concept and want to pitch in. This would have given us another dedicated member, and solidified our position in one of the first player created settlements. This post was made in response to the "Poll: Kickstarter Land Rush Leaderboard" Thread which shows a VAST number of 1-0 votes as can be seen here
You might have been able to piece this together, had you bothered to follow the link, and could look past the line "All Your Base Are Belong To Us"
I'm greatly saddened that I had to actually spell all this out for some of you.
In reference to the comparison someone made about some of this game's Sandbox elements being based of EVE's...
Your right! They are!
Again, this thread was not targeted at crushing little clans, or not allowing small Chartered Companies to survive for a month.
It was talking about territory control. Correct me if I am wrong as I never game EVE the light of day past a few hours into their trial (Flying ships and turn based combat isn't my thing) However, in EVE do you see corporations of anywhere from 1 - even 10 members owning a portion of space? My guess is not, or that it's minimal at best.
The same will likely be true in this game. This was an attempt to consolidate some groups and make a larger one, one with greater potential to acquire and hold territory.
Although it may not have had the desired effect, I certainly have gotten a great deal of enjoyment out of the pandemonium which ensued.
Do you want to make people cry about PvP? do you like inciting panic in the forces arrayed against you? Do you want to be THE "bad guy" in this game? If any of this sounds like fun to you, visit our thread here or send me a PM.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Waruko- Actually I constantly have full authority to do whatever I wish except remove or appoint council members, and the council has the right to remove me with a two thirds majority vote.
The intention is I will only use my powers to enact things as needed. And the balance is if I go mad with power and refuse to allow the council to reign me in, then I can lose my seat.
But this is seriously off topic for this thread.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well seeing that the game will only be available to the early birds, like in at least a year from now. The current alliances of the guilds can change, goals of guilds can change.
If I ever get the opportunity to play PFO, I would the leaving of joining an guild or alliance when I start playing, when I would review the current standings.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...
I represent a small guild. We are only seven at the time, because we saw the KS campaign quite late, as most of us are of the MMO crowd and not the PF crowd.
...
This is a game, not real life. Therefore: If there is a "Stronger eats Weaker" mentality 1,5 year (!!!) before the game even breaths, then I will not try to survive it. I will not try to find a good-aligned Alliance to pay them back.
I will simply leave the game along with my guildmates, and go play my tabletop campaign or/and Neverwinder.
...
Simply ally with your like-minded neighbors and play the game, Occasionally plan and organize coordinated play with your neighboring settlements.
It is said 'the organized few will always overcome the disorganized majority'.
Organization is relative.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The amount of strain in this thread bothers me.
Old wounds, fresh pain. Those who do not know pain are incautious. Those who do... are hypersensitive.
That is why the carpenter who hammers his thumb once will always hit it again. He's focused on it but has to use it anyway.