NeoWolfen's page

NeoWolfen wrote:

I am curious though, why an ARPG? of all the genres?

Because ARPGs are awesome, silly!

Just as Pathfinder can be novels or a card game or comics or plushes, it can be all sorts of genres of digital games as well. We're excited to take the brand into new, unexplored territory with this and other collaborations we have in the works, and that doesn't mean we'll never do a CRPG again. But we've released two of those, and our primary partner in that endeavor is currently involved in other projects. It's time to see what we can do in other areas of the gaming and pop culture landscape.

It's clear that fans want a Pathfinder Second Edition CRPG. We hear you. But we don't make computer games ourselves, and we're also not in the business of telling our trusted partners how to run their companies. In this case, BKOM came to us with a few game ideas, and we decided to partner with them to get those made because they looked like fun games that could embody Pathfinder in new ways, and not just a repetition of its current iterations.

I hope people enjoy them, and having played early builds and seen the process from behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure many will.

But I'd love for fans to give them a shot, instead of allowing their anticipation for a P2 CRPG to taint their impressions of this game. Let's not dismiss anything that isn't P2 CRPG as somehow preventing that P2 CRPG game from being made, because that's not how it works. We can have both, we're just only announcing one game at a time.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply Mark, thanks. I understand the desire to branch out, even if I don't agree with the direction. And contrary to what some may believe I do hope it succeeds, even if I doubt it will as I truly love the Pathfinder I.P, it did with the hobby what HAsbro failed to.

This game will have to bring something pretty unique to the table however to pique to interest or notice of ARPG fans away from the likes of the already established like Diablo of PoE and the Kickstarter video really didn't show that (IMO).

ARPG's being awesome, is fairly subjective, I mean Pizzas awesome to some, but there is no Pathfinder Pizza (yet lol), but I hope your right for the brands sake.

NeoWolfen wrote:

Rysky wrote:

I’m interested in why you’re framing that as a bad thing.

A) I've already made the point as to why, multiple times.

B) Why are you responding to me? Am I asking YOU anything? Do I need to get the mod back again? I asked the BRAND MANAGER a question, not you. Do you work for Paizo, or BKOM or even in the industry, do you know anything of any relevance to what I am asking THEM? nope.

My question was for them, the people IN THE KNOW, the people in a position to provide an actual answer with basis in fact, not assumption, opinion or personal bias.

Then you should have pointed this out more clearly earlier.

"what are the brand managers thinking" isn't the same as "to the brand managers..."

LOL, my dude I quoted the brand managers post directly with a reply TO him and aimed the question based on what he had said ensuring he would get the question and notification of the post.

It was clearly aimed at him.

It could not have been MORE clear ;)

I’m interested in why you’re framing that as a bad thing.

A) I've already made the point as to why, multiple times.

B) Why are you responding to me? Am I asking YOU anything? Do I need to get the mod back again? I asked the BRAND MANAGER a question, not you. Do you work for Paizo, or BKOM or even in the industry, do you know anything of any relevance to what I am asking THEM? nope.

My question was for them, the people IN THE KNOW, the people in a position to provide an actual answer with basis in fact, not assumption, opinion or personal bias.

Yeah, I wish people would realize this is a project BKOM conceived and pitched to Paizo, rather than an order from Paizo to BKOM. BKOM wanted to make an ARPG, and so that's why they made it that way.

Nothing is preventing Owlcat, or any other potential Paizo partners from making whatever genre of game they want to make. You're not getting an ARPG instead of a CRPG. You're getting an ARPG instead of literally nothing.

Your missing the point, Whether or not BKOM conceived and pitched this project, Paizo still had to give it the green light and they wouldn't have done that unless they thought an ARPG was beneficial to the brand in some way and that is something a brand manager would 100% know.

Also when it comes to "pitching" ideas, keep in mind that is not a one-way process, anyone can pitch an idea, even Paizo. It isn't just Paizo sat in the corner waiting for Computer game developers to come along and throw them a bone, which they have to accept because it's the only bone on the table.

So I am genuinely interested in their reasoning behind that and that isn't something you can answer, only them as they are the only ones who know.

nCore wrote:

Meh. ARPG seems like a terrible fit... was hoping for a proper CRPG using 2E rules. Owlcat, come baaaaack :)

Owlcat are still very much our partners. They're still rolling out the content of their second season of DLC for Wrath of the Righteous. They've been focused on their new Warhammer game for some time, but who knows what they might develop after that.

Our partnership with BKOM (and other, as-yet unannounced digital gaming partners, for that matter) doesn't preclude Owlcat from doing anything else with the brand. No one has an exclusive deal to produce Pathfinder or Starfinder games or other licensed material.

Music to my ears that Owlcat can still produce more, and if they also produce Starfinder CRPG's as well as Pathfinder CRPG's I'll probably lose my sh** as Stasrfinder CRPG's need to happen lol

I am curious though, why an ARPG? of all the genres?

Cleaned out a ton of harassing, off topic posts. Keep the conversation on topic.

Appreciate you ;)

The thing is, while I agree that people looking at a product specifically because they're a Paizo fan are more likely to want a CRPG than an ARPG- and you also have to take into consideration then midrange or casual fans that would buy *either* or *both* if both existed... on top of which, ARPGs are an ENORMOUSLY wider market outside the roleplayer base. Even if you take the assumption of "Paizo fans that will buy a CRPG" > "Paizo fans that will buy an ARPG" to be definitively true (which I'm not convinced is the case), "Paizo fans that will buy a CRPG + Non-fans that will buy a CRPG" is almost certainly lower than "Fans that will buy an ARPG + non-fans that will buy an ARPG".

Of course, debating over that is fairly pointless; we'll have empirical evidence of what sort of interest there is once the Kickstarter goes live!

As I said I don't think it will have zero appeal, but an ARPG is a much harder sell, and to far fewer people than all the folks here who love Pathfinder as an I.P and RPG's in general and who would have gone nuts for another CRPG.

Some may even argue an ARPG is an RPG as its in the name, but as I said in my first post ARPG's are a dumbing down on all levels of what is a beautiful game to begin with you lose the complexity and joy for the sake of FX. It's tantamount to an RPG being given the Michael Bay effect lol Sure it will look impressive and be all showy, but underneath the Fx its still amounts to a simplification of an awesome I.p.

And then you have the issue of (and again like I said) what will set this ARPG apart from the others of an already saturated market, with some LONg established favorites already. there have been lots of ARPG's and they have almost all vanished into obscurity outside of Diablo and PoE.

The video didn't really show anything to set it aside other than the fact it is using the Pahtfinder I.p and that doesn't matter to most computer game fans unless they also happen to be Pathfinder fans and most of those are going to prefer a CRPG or something similar.

The Kickstarter campaigns success doesn't really factor into the longevity or appeal of the game, you only have to look at Pathfinder Online for that. That game had a successful Kickstarter and many stretch goals and still ended up dead as a dodo, because no Pathfinder fan could work out why it was a PvP game lol

I hope its successful, I hope it survives, I love the PAthfinder I.P, but doesn't change the fact that it isn't the kind of game most of us were hoping for. I mean are we PAthfinder fans not the target demographic for Pathfinder related games? The developers clearly do awesome work, the game preview was visually very good, but the genre left a lot to be desired And that's kinda the point sadly :(

ARGP feels a little like a dumbing down if I'm being honest. RPG's settings like Pathfinder are about adventure and story and depth, not really just hit this, hit that..

The ARPG scene already has its big dogs, Diablo, PoE etc.. all the others drop quickly into obscurity. The trailer didn't really seem to throw anything new at the genre to make it stick out other than a Pathfinder setting and characters. And if that is all that is being brought to the genre then your better off sticking to CRPG's it's what Pathfinder fans want anyway.

I'd hate to seen all that money and effort tank like Pathfinder Online sadly did and all because it targeted the wrong audience (PvP fans). lets not make the same mistake again with an ARPG, when what real fans want are as previously mentioned more CRPG's or a PVE MMO.

I dont know I dont think every seasoned MMO'er finds tutorials etc.. a trap per se. I know I don't.

although that said beyond the blatantly obvious this is how you move, this is how you pick up a quest etc.. i find most tutorials are severely lacking in the information they convey.

Evil is so not descriptive...

What I call Evil could be what you call Good...

Is killing bad?... You say YES

Tiger kills you to feed her young... Good for the Tiger but Evil to you...
You kill a cow to feed yourself... The cow thinks you Evil you think Your doing Good...

Which was the point I was making.. always in mmos you get folks saying were big bad evil... the overriding aim just to kill things.

Killing things doesnt make them bad it makes them simple.

Evil doesnt lie in the act it lies in the motivation behind the act.

Acts can be viewed as you point out differently based on perspective but the motivation behind the acts as you handily display above in the quoted examples is very much what determines if something is truly Good or Bad, necessary or unecessary.

As I say the whole if you a small guild or soloer w/alts (via his guild of 1 comment) were going to kill you doesn't make thier guild evil, it makes them fairly lazy in motivation and reasoning and bullying/griefish in nature. Killing something just because its there without knowing anything about it whether it is even a threat or maybe even a benefit to you etc.. again not evil, just simple.

This game may be a sandbox but that doesnt equate to god given right to grief and pvp others and destroy what they and those they play with spend time and money to develop and build simply BECAUSE.

People EXPECT to be harrassed by monsters, they don't EXPECT to be harrassed by every other adventurer. Even in the PnP you play the Heroes not the Villains.

Not to mention the whole If your one of those (small or one person with alts) guilds joins us or we'll kill you angle.. is just fairly underhanded and will just lead to people demanding server types or flagging so those who want to can play thier game unharrassed by angry children who just want to spoil your fun..because.

NeoWolfen wrote:

Oh look the PVP monkeys are pontificating and threatening the soloers.. nice to see nothing changes whatever the MMO.

May be hard to believe but just because you CAN destroy someones buildings doesnt mean everyone WILL for no reason at all other than because they are there.

Also I think you'll find in any mmo MOST guilds are smaller guilds onsisiting of a half dozen or less people and thats PERFECTLY okay.

Have you considered the possibility he is 'role-playing' in an effort to drum up some support for his planned guild?

I know it's almost a completely lost art in MMO's but really, he has hardly said anything offensive.

Ive played enough MMO's for enough years to know that sort of pontificating is not RP. Its a run of the mill "I think buying a guild for one person or more is stupid and our guild is going to wipe the floor with you"..run of the mill 10 years old chest puffing exercise.

The more sensible heads and guilds see the benefit of keeping smaller settlements and guilds around that can be trusted near thier own areas of influence as it adds extra layers of defence, extra info, extra contacts, extra services etc... just wiping out people for no reason doesn't make it evil it makes it stupid.

Evil isn't dumb its calculating, methodical and driven. If it requires a death it is to serve some end or further some goal.. it isn't merely because "its there". you know :) The whole notion of im evil therefore i just kill stuff because is a great disservice to the word and its true implication.

There are Pros and Cons to both Mounts and Pets.. but as a fan of both in MMO's generally Im going to have to sit firmly on the fence and say "I want BOTH"! :)

Oh look the PVP monkeys are pontificating and threatening the soloers.. nice to see nothing changes whatever the MMO.

May be hard to believe but just because you CAN destroy someones buildings doesnt mean everyone WILL for no reason at all other than because they are there.

Also I think you'll find in any mmo MOST guilds are smaller guilds onsisiting of a half dozen or less people and thats PERFECTLY okay.