Samurai Archetype: Sword Saint

[Matthew Pittard]

Greetings,

Has anyone out there played a Samurai with the Sword Saint Archetype? If so, how has it been in terms of the Iaijitsu strikes etc. I have a player who has played mostly Hayato the pregen so far , however now has to actually make a character and Ive been looking at variations on the Samurai.

Any input welcome

Matthew

[Preston Hudson]

I have one I am currently playing and like the iaijitsu Strike when it does hit. Level 3 adds Brutal Slash, when combined with the bonus from Weapon Expertise (which I really hope stacks), helps with critical hit confirmation rolls.

The minus 4 to AC is the only real drawback to the iaijitsu strike but only lasts until your next turn. Investments in armor will be important (I am already working to upgrade my armor to O-Yori to hopefully have a decent AC after a strike. Hope this helps.

[Mahtobedis]

Another draw back is not getting all of your attacks.

[Chris Mortika]

My experience: I was unhappy trying to play a sword saint, and rarely used the iajitsu ability.

For your first nine levels, it takes up a swift action (to challenge) and a full-round action.

So, if you get to act in the surprise round, you cannot attack. (You can't use your cool opening move, 'cause it's a full-round action, and you can't do anything else, because iajitsu has to be your first attack.)

So, if you start combat more than five feet away from your foe, you can't use your cool opening move. You can't charge, or move and attack.

So, if you want to do any other swift action, or if you've already used your challenge(s) for the day, you can't do your cool opening move.

All combined (challenge and iajitsu) you're at -6 AC against everybody except the target of your challenge. So, for practical purposes, you need to be fighting a single foe.

All things considered, it would be better to take a level in Rogue or Ninja and pick up Improved Feint.

[Radiostorm]

I have a Sword Saint samurai in PFS, and I'm really disliking the archetype. It feels clumsy to have iajitsu strike as a full-round action. With all the other factors limiting the ability (the AC penalty, the challenge requirement, your weapon needing to be sheathed), it really needs to be a standard action from the get-go.

[Nunspa]

Radiostorm wrote:

I have a Sword Saint samurai in PFS, and I'm really disliking the archetype. It feels clumsy to have iajitsu strike as a full-round action. With all the other factors limiting the ability (the AC penalty, the challenge requirement, your weapon needing to be sheathed), it really needs to be a standard action from the get-go.

I find the Magius Kensai makes a much better sword saint

[JiCi]

The problem I see with the Sword Saint is that Iaijutsu Strike can't be used more than once per day per opponent... and that doesn't increase as you level up.

Screw up once and you're screwed yourself.

[Azaelas Fayth]

Ironically, Kensai is Japanese for Sword Saint and was a highly respected title. In fact for a long time there was only allowed to be one true Kensai/Sword Saint. And for about 50 years AFTER his death Miyamoto Musashi-Dono held that title.

Sword Saint Samurai is based on dueling & striking with a hard hit then following up with rapid attacks. Once the Iaijutsu gets to being a Standard Action you can now move up Iaijutsu to draw your weapon and deal damage and then full-attack afterwards.

It rewards you focusing on getting a High To-Hit more than focusing on Damage. Meaning Power Attack isn't a feat you want to get first.

Think of it as a One/Day/Challenge Target Sneak Attack that only requires you to stand next to your target. And allows you to draw your blade while attacking.

[Umbranus]

Chris Mortika wrote:

So, if you get to act in the surprise round, you cannot attack. (You can't use your cool opening move, 'cause it's a full-round action, and you can't do anything else, because iajitsu has to be your first attack.)

As I read it you just can't attack the one you want to use your special attack on. But (as long as you don't draw your sword) you can attack someone else. You could for example use armor spikes to charge the BBEG's goon. Or if you have a caster dip you can cast a buff spell.

In another thread someone commented that you could attack the goon with your sheathed sword (combat scabbard).
As the ability doesn't state that you need quickdraw for the Iaijutsu strike you could even use your weapon expertise for another weapon than the one you want to use your strike with. Start by quickdrawing for example your wakizashi, attack a goon. When the BBEG is in range drop wakizashi and make the Iaijutsu strike on BBEG.

A real samurai might object to just dropping his wakizashi in combat but it would work.

[Azaelas Fayth]

You guys do realize that a Sword Saint can draw & attack, Sheathe his blade, Challenge BBEG, then Iaijutsu Strike the BBEG.

The only restriction is the Target must be challenged and you can't have Attacked them yet under the challenge. Unless I am missing something.

[Question]

I don't think that works.

>Move action to move into melee range
>Free action to draw (im not sure if this would provoke an AOO)
>Standard action to attack
>Next turn, move action to sheath your weapon
>Can't use iatjutsu strike as it's a full round action and you just used a move action

Overall the iatjutsu ability seems fail. Challenge, then standing infront of your opponent unarmed so that you can do a iatjutsu strike next round seems really really stupid.

The only way i can see this working is if you move, draw and attack, then drop your weapon next round to iatjutsu strike with another weapon. The problem being that you need two weapons, one of which is going to be much weaker than the other at higher levels due to wealth issues.

This ability seems badly designed. It's not even that strong...i think it caps out at the same level of sneak attack or a magus shocking grasp? And it's basically a once per opponent thing.

[Charlie Bell]

Should have been a thing that gets added onto drawing a weapon using the weapon expertise class feature, i.e., is a free action, once per challenge, when drawing a weapon. That would maybe have been worth giving up a mount.