What is the best Archetype for a small race going dervish dance line fighter?
Thanks!
Halfthing
That's my loving term for a halfling.... halfthing. :)
Thanks for the advice, I'm trying to help a friend of mine build a viable halfling fighter for her first time playing Pathfinder (which I'm also new at). But she wants to be an up front fighter, not a ranged fighter.
Which races exactly? If my GM allowed it, I'd make a goblin, which has +4 Dex.
Which races exactly? If my GM allowed it, I'd make a goblin, which has +4 Dex.
That's an awesome idea since the GM OK'd ay official Paizo book. But there's no way in hell she's going to want to play a goblin. lol
What method are you using for attribute generation? 15 point buy? Starting at first level?
Also, what are her particular preferences/requirements?
Race: Halfling
Class: Fighter
Strategy: Dervish Dancer (Scimitar/DEX build)
Other: ???
If you're looking for a good archetype, I'd consider: Lore Warden, Mobile Fighter, Free Hand Fighter, and Weapon Master.
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Risky Striker might also be a good way to pump her damage up a bit, in addition to Power Attack. Going DEX heavy and Free Hand Fighter would soften the AC penalty quite a bit, and Power Attack and Risky Striker stack so you'd be getting +4/+8/+12/etc. per hit.
What method are you using for attribute generation? 15 point buy? Starting at first level?
Also, what are her particular preferences/requirements?
Race: Halfling
Class: Fighter
Strategy: Dervish Dancer (Scimitar/DEX build)
Other: ???If you're looking for a good archetype, I'd consider: Lore Warden, Mobile Fighter, Free Hand Fighter, and Weapon Master.
It's a home game using a 25pt buy, Paizo only books, and she wants to be a halfling melee character (in armor so no monk or barbarian).
I was thinking the Derv build would be best to optimize the bump to dex and penalty to str.
Well, you have the right idea.
You only need a 13 strength, and then your focus should be dexterity, constitution, wisdom, intelligence, charisma, and in that order.
Why the need for a 13 str?
either that or a transformative dagger.
I also forgot to mention that we are starting off at level 4. Well, she is going to join our group which is at level 4.
give her a +1 trnsformative dagger. Then she can turn it into a size tiny scimitar with no attack penalty and use piranha strike
Is there any way that you all know of to get a 1h weapon (Scimitar) to qualify is a light weapon? That way we could bypass Power Attack and use Piranah Strike instead? If not, I'll just have to move around stats. :D
huh... it references not taking penalties, but it may be adjudicated as someone changing the shape of a weapon into another that has no penalty... I could go either way on it really.
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huh... it references not taking penalties, but it may be adjudicated as someone changing the shape of a weapon into another that has no penalty... I could go either way on it really.
You are talking about the "It can even take the shape of comparable weapons of different size categories. For example, a Small greatsword is a two-handed slashing weapon for a Small character, but is a one-handed slashing weapon for a Medium character, which is very similar to a Medium longsword; a Small transformative greatsword can thus become an actual Medium longsword, usable by a Medium creature without the —2 penalty for using a weapon of the wrong size." part right?
That explains itself quite clearly.
Here's a Lore Warden build I made at 5th level.
She gets 7 skill points per level, and there are 6 knowledge skills that help identify monsters, meaning she can keep all of the important lore skills maxed, and have a point left over at each level for other things.
I like Lore Warden for this character for a few reasons. First, it's a light-armor wearer. Second, having excellent knowledge skills can easily be leveraged by the GM into a great lesson in Pathfinder monsters (i.e. free clues for the newbie).
NG Small Humanoid (halfling)
Init +5; Senses Perception +1
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Defense
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AC 21, touch 16, flat-footed 16 (+5 armor, +5 Dex, +1 size)
hp 44 (5d10+5)
Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +2; +2 vs. fear
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 Scimitar +14 (1d4+9/18-20/x2+2 fire)
Ranged Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +0) +12 (1d6/x3)
Special Attacks weapon training abilities (heavy blades +1)
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Statistics
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Str 13, Dex 21, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 10
Base Atk +5; CMB +7 (+9 Tricking); CMD 22 (24 vs. Dirty Trick)
Feats Combat Expertise +/-2, Dervish Dance, Improved Dirty Trick, Power Attack -2/+4, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)
Traits Armor Expert, Flame of the Dawnflower
Skills Appraise +7, Fly +7, Knowledge (arcana) +11, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +11, Knowledge (local) +11, Knowledge (nature) +11, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +11, Perception +1, Perform (dance) +2, Ride +10, Stealth +9
Languages Common, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling
SQ fearless
Other Gear +1 Mithral Chain shirt, +1 Scimitar, Arrow, durable (10), Masterwork Composite longbow (Str +0), Belt of incredible dexterity +2, Cloak of resistance +1, 525 GP
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Special Abilities
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Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Flame of the Dawnflower +2 damage with a scimitar on a critical hit.
Improved Dirty Trick You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when performing a dirty trick.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Weapon Training (Blades, Heavy) +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades
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My second PFS PC is a female halfling Dawnflower Dervish bard. Although she will get more bard levels, an alternative would be to go bard1/paladin?, as her two main stats are Dex and Cha. Her first level feat is Fey Foundling, and that suits a paladin down to the ground!
Yeah, DD bard is a good one level dip. I have a PFS halfling PC who went DD at 1st level, then heading for 4 levels of rogue before switching to Halfling Opportunist prestige class.
Oh man, this is rich. Choosing the non-core feat and basing your entire character around that non-core feat. No wonder the design team thinks dervish dance is overpowered.
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You could circumvent the whole 13 STR thing for Power Attack with a 2 level dip into Ranger. You'd gain some other benefits as well so it may be of consideration.
Of course you could also start with 12 STR and bump it 4th level and nab Power Attack then... It's probably the simplest way and saves you some valuable points for your point buy at character creation...
I can't help you with archetype choice - mainly because I don't play fighters and haven't read the archetypes (except lore warden - which I like, but I don't know how it compares to other choices)
give her a +1 trnsformative dagger. Then she can turn it into a size tiny scimitar with no attack penalty and use piranha strikeNo, there would still be a size penalty.
And if the scimitar isn't appropriately sized for the character, you can't use Dervish Dance, right?
Here is an attempt I made at a halfling fighter dervish. Honestly, I would just recommend forgoing archetypes in this case.
I see Piranha Strike more often... Same with Agile enchantment.
Crane Style would be a Nice fit for this build. As would the deflect arrows feat.
Widjit, I also have an elf dervish dancer who is VERY effective, defensively speaking. Perhaps she could inspire your small dervish?
Its overpowered on a magus. I do see a vast number of maguses going for it.Oh man, this is rich. Choosing the non-core feat and basing your entire character around that non-core feat. No wonder the design team thinks dervish dance is overpowered.If it was overpowered then in any game where it was allowed you'd see a vast number of DD rather than any other fighting style. Of course given that that isn't true and that the vast majority of combat types lean towards 2 handed weapons and when Dervish dance is allowed you occasionally see certain types of characters using it and even then half of them do it for flavor rather than effectiveness ...
I think the only valid conclusion the dev team could draw is that it's a perfect feat it contains drawbacks namely no 1.5x damage and power attack as well as restricting you to no shield but it opens a whole new world of character building out of what is normally a complete garbage choice.
You are confusing overpower with just happens to fit their class restrictions perfectly. They are still nothing close to pretty much any type of summoner and even for just DPR builds there are better.
Unless you get into the nonsense of holding a charged spell, Then in one round delivering it, then another spell through spell storing, Then another through spellstrike and yet another from a quickened spell and spellstrike. But this mess has nothing to do with being a dex build so..
Widjit, I also have an elf dervish dancer who is VERY effective, defensively speaking. Perhaps she could inspire your small dervish?
I emailed her a link to that character and she really likes it. We are going to work on changing it over to a halfling this weekend. Thanks Ravingdork!
Can you suggest a level progression to it?
Thanks everyone for the great feedback.
Widj
It's straight up fighter 6, then duelist 10, then fighter (or other physical class) 4.
Most of the progression will be in the feats, which, being relatively generic, can probably be taken in a number of different orders.
I recommend getting the Crane Style line of feats as early as possible, however, as they will help you survive to reach the higher levels.
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Oh man, this is rich. Choosing the non-core feat and basing your entire character around that non-core feat. No wonder the design team thinks dervish dance is overpowered.If it was overpowered then in any game where it was allowed you'd see a vast number of DD rather than any other fighting style. Of course given that that isn't true and that the vast majority of combat types lean towards 2 handed weapons and when Dervish dance is allowed you occasionally see certain types of characters using it and even then half of them do it for flavor rather than effectiveness ...
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Umm, you do see DD characters all over the freaking place. I have yet to see a PFS table that didn't have a DD Magus or Bard in it. Also, there are like close to a dozen official character sets that all revolve around that one feat which is a singular craziness I don't really comprehend. You know there are like 3 different bard archetypes that are all about the DD feat, as well as a Cleric PrC and at least one fighter archetype? It's definitely a little out of control by virtue of the fact that DD so perfectly complements several classes that you're literally building an inferior character just by not taking that feat. I promise you, the fighters and magii aren't taking that feat for "flavor". One starts to wonder if there's some sort of strange coalition of sentient scimitars out there when you sit at a PFS table and there are actually 3 Dervish Dancing Bladebound Magus' at a table of 7 people, none of whom knew each other prior to that night and only one of whom actually spends any time on the forums.
Dervish Dancing Druid.
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Dervish Dancing Druid.
In 3D!!!
And I don't know what Ssalarn is so worked up about. I've only ever seen one PC in PFS that has Dervish Dance, and that's because it's my own character. And he doesn't do anywhere near the damage of my barbarian with a two handed weapon, so DD is clearly NOT broken.
I've played a lot of PFS with a lot of different people without ever having seen anyone else using this feat that I know of. It's possible one or more of the magus PCs at my past tables have had it, and I just didn't know it, but I really haven't seen that many magi, either. It might just be dumb luck that some builds are more popular in some geographic regions.
Matt is right. Before, finesse builds were pretty lacking in the damage area compared to their brute force counterparts. DD helps that a lot.