Reading guides on Bards, I noticed that this guide recommends recommends against Dazzling Display because you get Dirge of Doom for free, whereas Treantmonk's guide recommends it quite strongly for a controller bard.
So which is it? Spending two feats on something you get for free sounds wasteful, but there are a lot of subtle differences between the two, and I find it hard to judge.
Here's a list of the pros and cons of each (as far as I've been able to come up with; please add more if I've missed anything):
Dazzling Display:
con:
- Costs two Feats
- No automatic success (though a Bard's Intimidate against target's 10 + HD + Wis gives good odds)
- Full round action
pro:
- Can be combined with Inspire Courage (or any other bardic performance)
- Can be used as often as you like
- Can be used as early as level 5 (sooner if your first level is of a full BAB class)
- On a good roll, it might work for several rounds
And it's a mundane effect (no idea if that's a pro or a con)
Dirge of Doom:
con:
- Cannot be used at the same time as Inspire Courage (or another bardic performance)
- Limited by number of uses for bardic performance
- You don't get it before level 8
pro:
- Free!
- Always works
- Standard action (later move, later swift, and always free to maintain)
And it's a supernatural mind-affecting fear effect that relies on audible and visual components.
So how do you compare these two? I mean, any bard is going to get Dirge of Doom anyway, but if you take your control/support role seriously, is it worth it to spend two feats on the ability to combine this with Inspire Courage or to get it 3 levels early? Is the full round action a crippling problem? (Can full round actions be combined with free or swift actions? I have no idea.)
To what extent does it matter that one is supernatural and the other isn't?
And which Perform skills actually have both audible and visual components? (Unless seeing someone play a flute is visual enough.)
It's too bad they both specify it won't make a shaken target frightened, or you'd definitely want them both.
I haven't tried playing this kind of bard, so this is just a hunch, but in my experience you want to have Inspire Courage up most of the time you're fighting, so getting Dazzling Display to debuff the enemies while you buff your team seems like a worthy investment.
That's pretty much what I was thinking. Having only one bardic performance effect at any time is a pretty serious limitation, and it hurts the usefulness of any in-combat bardic performance ability. Only the best choice really matters.
So maybe Dirge of Doom is actually better than Inspire Courage, but even if that's the case, giving up Inspiring Courage still hurts. Does it hurt two feats worth? Maybe there are some fights where Inspire Courage is better, and others where Dirge of Doom is better. Then it's still interesting that you have access to both, but would you usually want them both at the same time?
So I'm definitely leaning towards Dazzling Display as the superior option. But still, two feats. You can do lots of other cool stuff with two feats. I could go down the trip route, for example.
At lv 10 you get access to 4th lv spells and can take Virtuoso Performance. That'll allow you to do Dirge of Doom while inspiring courage, but the drawback of using two performances like this is that it takes up 3 rounds of performance per round. Then again later, at 14th lv when you get 5th lv spells, you can take the Shadowbard spell to keep up two performances at once without spending performance rounds for the one performed by the shadowbard.
This does mean that you'll have to wait at least 2 extra levels for Dirge of Doom if we assume that you'll always prioritise inspire courage.
Virtuoso Performance and especially Shadowbard sound very interesting. But using those would eat into your rare high level spells.
Well, you can always take a look at the 4th and 5th level spells and see if you think they're worth it, or if you'd rather have some other spells. For my bard, my highest priority is to be as good at buffing as possible, which means that I want those two spells even if I have to give up some other spells. My opinion is that in the end it depends on what sort of bard you're playing, and what you think is the better solution.
Well, I want to play a controller bard. My Str and Dex are too low for a main combat role, so I want to focus on support. I think being able to use Dazzling Display while Inspiring Courage (and maybe even Inspiring Greatness or something else using those spells later on) would be pretty cool.
I'm also considering going for tripping, but maybe I should have been a bit more combat oriented to do that reliably. I don't have much experience with tripping really. Maybe I should just give it a try with just the whip to see how it works.
The rest of that chain isn't terribly interesting to me, I'm afraid. It's just 2 feats to get Dazzling Display, and the +1 to hit is a nice bonus along the way.
About Dirge of Doom affecting only a single enemy, I think that's not true. As it's written, it starts about "..enemies, causing them..", and then switches to singular, but Inspire Courage does the same thing, while Inspire Greatness emphasizes that it only works on a single ally. So I'd say Dirge of Doom works on all enemies. If it didn't, that would definitely settle it.
I agree that Dirge of Doom affects all enemies within 30 ft. Also, since you get it at 8th lv, it's already just a move action to activate a performance. At 13th lv it'll be swift. Also remember that you can keep this up for as long as you want, as long as you have performance rounds. No save is also awesome.
Then again, if your bard isn't built for being useful attacking (I know mine isn't), once you've got all your buffs up (or maybe before setting them up) it might be cool to be able to shaken enemies without having to waste performances and/or high-level spells.
I'm probably on the side of DoD, but I haven't actually used it yet myself. I'm counting on changing that now that I can cast Virtuoso Performance, but only for major encounters :)
I realise I'm probably not helping all that much, I'm just hoping my ranting will somehow cast a helpful light on something here.
At high level, particularly if you take Lingering Music, running out of performance rounds is seldom a problem.
Blistering Incentive>>>>Dazzling display unless you're getting the sneak attack bard archetype and want shatter defenses.
Running out of performances isn't what I'm afraid of. Being unable to buff and debuff at the same time is. Dazzling Display works with Inspire Courage. Virtuoso Performance and Shadowbard definitely sound useful, but level 10 and 14 is pretty late.
My choice is basically: being able to debuff everyone while buffing my pals at level 5, versus being able to debuff them instead of buffing my pals at level 8, and only being able to do both at once at level 10. 5 levels wait is quite a lot.
And I'd have to find something else to spend those feats on. In another thread it was pointed out to me that tripping is just not going to work for me, so what am I going to spend my feats on in not Dazzling Performance?
Blistering Invective looks really excellent, and I'd get that at level 4 even. But I'd be able to do it only 2 (at level 4) or 3 (level 5) times a day (though in the Kingmaker campaign, that might be plenty), and it cuts into the other spells I can use. I'm actually counting on my spells for battlefield control rather than buffing/debuffing (except for Haste, obviously).
So I do have other options for my spells and my bardic performance, but I don't really have a good plan to spend my feats, and I think that may be the main thing for me that keeps Dazzling Display a really attractive option.
So what I really need to dissuade me from taking Dazzling Performance, is a good new set of feats to take. Trip is apparently a really bad option for me. I'm seriously considering Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Net). But beyond that? Should I have gone the melee route? My Strength (14) is a bit low for that to be more than a backup option. And we have plenty of damage dealers in the group already.
I know it's bordering on off topic and you just mentioned Haste as your only exception for buffing spells, but may I suggest Good Hope? It takes up another 3rd level spell, but it stacks with Haste and (mostly) Inspire Courage. In just 2 rounds of buffing, these 3 will get your entire party:
+2 will and fort saves, +3 reflex save, +5 attack, +4 damage, +2 on all ability and skill checks, +1 AC, +1 attack on full attack rounds, +30 movement speed.
I just checked, and none of the three methods stack with other fear effects, so you're stuck with "Shaken".
@Thymus Vulgaris: Good Hope looks really nice. Thanks!
@Blueluck: Yeah, I believe if you get Shaken while you're already shaken, you get frightened (though I can't find that rule right now). Too bad both Intimidate and Dirge of Doom have an exception for that. So if anyone knows a good way to give enemies "shaken" that can make them frightened, I'd love to know.
The Fear spell seems a good one. If they fail their save, they're panicked. If they make it, they're shaken. But if already shaken through Dirge of Doom or Dazzling Display, they'll more likely fail their save, and be frightened if they make it. Dirge of Doom as a move action followed by Fear is absolutely killer. Only Fear is cone-shaped instead of everywhere around you. (Edit: Fear is especially nice because as a Bard, I get it at level 7 just like a Wizard, and a level before a Sorcerer would get it. Awesome choice.)
@Malag: My character has already been created, so taking an archetype is not an option anymore.
@Matt2VK: Here's my build:
Level 1 Bard
STR 14
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 10
CHA 19 (includes racial +2)
Race Human, but with alternate racial trait Focused Study (gives Skill Focus on level 1, 8 and 16)
Traits: Bastard (campaign) and Reactionary (+2 init)
Feats: Lingering Performance, and Skill Focus (Perform Oratory)
Skills: 1 point in each of Bluff (total bonus 8), Diplomacy (8), Intimidate (8), Knowledge(geography), (nobility) (6), Perception (4), Perform(Oratory) (11), Sense Motive (4), Stealth (5)
Spells: Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Ghost Sound, Read Magic, Charm Person, Grease. (Silent Image is high on my list for new spells.)
Gear: Longsword, dagger, wooden shield, studded leather, whip, shortbow (found), various adventuring stuff.
More sources of "Shaken":
* Haunting Mists is a level 2 Bard spell that can give Shaken.
* Vissions of Hell is a level 3 spell that does it on a larger scale, but will likely shake my allies too.
@Malag: So I can still choose an Archetype, as long as it doesn't replace any level 1 abilities? I didn't know that. I'll have a look.
Edit: the few archetypes I can find that don't replace a level 1 ability, also don't replace Dirge of Doom. So no luck there. I don't mind Dirge of Doom, though. If 2x shaken does mean you're frightened, it combines very well with spells that give the shaken ability, especially when they do so on a failed save, like Fear.
Dazzling Display is more a generic debuff that doesn't have to lead to being frightened.
Improved Initiative is a really good idea. No idea why Treantmonk omitted it from his guide, because he's pretty big on winning initiative in his guide for god wizards. I already have the Reactionary trait for an initiative boost. I admit that until recently I ignored initiative; you're going to get your turn anyway. But after reading Treantmonk's god wizard guide, I made a wizard for a different campaign (Council of Thieves) that has a whopping +13 initiative. No idea if that's overkill, time will tell. But my bard could definitely use some extra initiative.
Arcane Strike is of course also always an option. Melee isn't my focus, but if I'm out of other choices, a magic weapon doesn't hurt (well, not me anyway). Although I think Arcane Strike gives the biggest boost at low levels.
I'm not sure about the faction guide. I think we can use anything from d20pfsrd.com. (The other campaign is strictly Core, APG and UM, so I hope I won't get confused with all the different sources.)
Crafting is a really good idea. We're playing Kingmaker, so it's empty wilderness with little access to big shops and markets with exotic items. There are apparently rules about the volume of imports through the trading post. The ability to produce our own magic items could be really big, and of course our upstart nation is going to need its own magic crafters. Craft Wondrous Item is an excellent idea for a much wider variety of reasons than usual.
I need to look into those bloodlines for Eldritch Heritage. I know nothing about them yet, but since they're for sorcerers, I can imagine they work pretty well for bards too.
Harmonic Spell is an interesting idea too. I need to consider whether this is something I will actually do. It feels somewhat cheesy to me to change my bardic performance twice in a round to get both effects.
I definitely have plenty of feats lined up for after Dazzling Display. Enough to make me wonder if I still need Dazzling Display, but I do like having the ability to intimidate large groups without expending resources. I think having several ways to shake our opponents is going to be the core of my combat for a while.