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If my wizard would have readied a mage hand spell to deflect the bomb thrown at the dwarf... would you have allowed it?
Mage Hand: "Target one nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lbs."
Supernatural Abilities (Su): "Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like."
I would say the bomb is not nonmagical, and thus cannot be affected by mage hand.
If I were the DM, I'd say throwing two explosive things at each other means both are negated. They still land somewhere, though.
By RAW"? (as this is the rules forum) No.
Whould I allow it in a home game? also no.
But I can see a lot of GMs saying "sure why not"
None of what follows is RAW, but if someone had the "deflect arrows" feat AND were able to cast mage hand, then I'd let them, even if the bombs are considered magical, but then again that's just me.
Ok, so maybe deflecting a thrown alchemist fire then?
If the object in flight is considered unattended, then maybe.
There's a thread on the subject here: Unattened objects the end has a broken link to a James Jacobs post that I can't find.
However:
Objects, in this case, refers to nonmagical non-living things that are used to try to breach the wall. Like thrown rocks, thrown tables, arrows, catapult boulders, and so on. Any objects or items or whatever that are "attended" (as in, carried or worn by a creature) are NOT destroyed, but travel with the person carrying/holding them off to whatever other plane that person ends up going to.
That's in reference to shooting arrows through a prismatic wall. By making the arrows unattended once fired, they get destroyed by the wall.
You still might have GM feedback in regards to targeting the projectile, or correctly readying the action (since the readied action generally happens before the thing that triggers it, which means it hasn't yet been thrown), as well as balance issues with being able to shut down a non-iterative ranged attacker with a cantrip.
Kazaan, you can get around the trigger by using a different one. Perhaps by stating as your trigger "When the thrown bomb reaches apogee". Thus, you'd deflect it just before it reaches the highest point in its flight path.
I agree with the assertion that by RAW the bomb is magical and thus not a valid target.
Plus, a moving object exerts more force than a stationary one, and mage hand has a physical limitation on what it can move. I'd also rule no.
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I technically would not apply that much force in attempting to deflect it from its trajectory.
Also, I understand that a bomb is a supernatural abilities, so.. lets consider a thrown alchemist fire instead.
But anyways, I can understand that it is not RAW.
This is likely not the best forum to post it but I wanted to also have the RAW point of view on this.
So thank you all for your input.
My guess, would be to allow a mage to try it on a readied action, but I would give it a high AC for a ranged touch attack because of the speed of the object in the air.
That still has some cinematic value, and allow an out of spells mage to do something cool.
By RAW"? (as this is the rules forum) No.
But I can see a lot of GMs saying "sure why not"
I'd say yes. Have fun. Encourage creativity!
An arrow in flight is a non-magical, unattended object. The rules don't prohibit you from deflecting that with a readied action to use mage-hand. :D
I'd house rule that targets of mage hand cannot be moving at projectile speed; This makes good sense in my opinion considering it's a level 0 spell.
Having to ready an action balances it out I think.
An arrow in flight is a non-magical, unattended object. The rules don't prohibit you from deflecting that with a readied action to use mage-hand. :D
What about an arrow fired from a magic bow? Aren't ammunition considered magical and carry the relevant magical properties of the bow they were fired from?
An arrow in flight is a non-magical, unattended object. The rules don't prohibit you from deflecting that with a readied action to use mage-hand. :DWhat about an arrow fired from a magic bow? Aren't ammunition considered magical and carry the relevant magical properties of the bow they were fired from?
It does indeed gain the bonuses, but that doesn't make the arrow in and of itself magical.
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Meh, just say no to silly requests. You are in charge. Everyone knows you can't use Mage hand to effect combat... It moves sloooow. If they don't like tough. Spell says lift and move, not deflect. A thrown object isn't unattended, a book or beer mug sitting on a table is unattended. And you have to spend your turn moving one of those types of things 15 ft. Slooow. Great cantrip, just not in combat.
Is this like Sylar (Heroes) using his telekinetic to stop incoming bullets in mid-air, turn them around, and sending them flying back at the shooter?
This is definitely a cool move that should, due to sheer Rule of Coolness, be doable in Pathfinder. But probably not with a cantrip.
If my wizard would have readied a mage hand spell to deflect the bomb thrown at the dwarf... would you have allowed it?Mage Hand: "Target one nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lbs."
Supernatural Abilities (Su): "Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like."
I would say the bomb is not nonmagical, and thus cannot be affected by mage hand.
It is an intelligent use of a low level spell to counter the often powerful alchemist bombs. I'd allow it because it shows smarts.
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You couldn't ready an action to deflect it with your normal hand, so I wouldn't allow it with the mage hand either.
True, although deflecting arrows consumes no actions when you have the feat.
A cool idea came to mind, a readied action to sunder the arrow mid-flight. Arrow-Cutter.
I would probably allow it given that:
A) You deflecting a bomb midair is cool, and
B) you are using an out of the book move, which I've haven't heard of, making it more cool, and further
C) you are doing it to protect another PC, instead of simply taking actions to make yourself shine.
Of course these might change if you start doing this all the time. It could stop being cool and fun, and start being an annoyance as a cantrip threatens to any NPC with ranged weapons. At that point I would apply some additional limitations to keep the game fun for all.
A cool idea came to mind, a readied action to sunder the arrow mid-flight. Arrow-Cutter.
Well, now there's a whole can of worms involving what you can do to an arrow mid-air. Can you cast a spell to sunder an arrow midair? Can you simply ready an action to move out of the way of the mid-air arrow?
I would advise against allowing actions against mid-air projectiles. It simply gets too silly and I'm pretty sure the game rules don't really suggest that you can react to things moving as quickly as arrow-like projectiles. Readying against a charge and disrupting a spellcaster is one thing. Readying against things that often hit at fractions of a second is another thing.
I draw the line between direct-fire (arrows, bolts, rays) and indirect fire (lobbed alchemical items, etc.). The former do damage because of kinetic energy, the latter do damage because of what they are (acid, fire, holy water) not because of how hard you threw them.
The former requires feats (deflect/snatch arrows, ray shield), the latter might not depending on GM fiat.