I grew up with Monster attacks in the order of Claw, Claw, Bite.
However, most entries now seem to read: Bite first with Claw attacks afterward.
Cat, Big (Lion, Tiger)
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4);
Just to clarify, this is the order of attack now?
Thanks.
I prefer Claw, Bite, Claw, just to keep things sassy.
But yeah, you're in control of which you do and when.
Though in play you can use the attacks in any order you choose, the order of attack given IN THE CREATURE'S LISTING is determined by the creature's primary weapon. It uses its best Base Attack Bonus and applies better damage modifiers to the primary attack.
But which attacks are primary and which are secondary are not hard and fast from creature to creature. It depends on the creature.
For some creatures with smaller bite attacks, their claws are a primary attack, and the bite secondary. You mention cats here. Well, cats have bite as big attacks. Their bites do much more damage than their claws, so are considered their primary weapons. That would be true of all large cats, since they're all built similarly.
So if I attack with a leopard's bite, get my free action trip attack and succeed. Are my claw attacks simultaneous or do I get to claw him while he is prone?
I've seen people roll all three attacks at once.
So if I attack with a leopard's bite, get my free action trip attack and succeed. Are my claw attacks simultaneous or do I get to claw him while he is prone?
Yes, you can now claw him to complete the full attack. You don't roll both claws simultaneously. You use the same attack bonus and roll them separately.
I've seen people roll all three attacks at once.
If by rolling three separate dice at once, or if you mean rolling each attack quickly in a row, that's okay (so long as we know clearly which roll/die is for which attack).
If you mean he rolled one die one time, and applied it to all attacks? Bad idea. Not only do the rules state you should be rolling for each attack, rolling a single die one time for all attacks has a chance of guaranteeing a PC death by making every single monster attack a critical that round, or nerfs the monster beyond comprehension, by making every single attack a disastrous failure.
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Bruunwald, that's not true, you're thinking 3.5, where the order of natural attacks matters. It does not.
In Pathfinder, the type of natural attack (bite, claw, and so on) is what determines whether it's a primary or a secondary. And if it's a primary, it's always a primary, and if it's a secondary, it's always a secondary.
So in 3.5, claw/claw/bite meant claws were primary and bite was secondary (with a lower attack bonus). And bite/claw/claw meant bite was primary and claws were secondary (with a lower attack bonus).
In Pathfinder RPG, it doesn't matter if they're listed claw/claw/bite, bite/claw/claw, or claw/bite/claw... they're all primary, none of them are secondary, because bite attacks are primary natural attacks and claw attacks are also primary natural attacks, for all creatures*.
And it doesn't matter what order you roll them in, because they're all at the same attack bonus.
GoldEdition, for the leopard, you can roll the bite first and maybe trip, and if you trip then the claws gain the benefit of the target being on the ground. Or you can claw/claw first and then bite (though you probably wouldn't want to do it that way because attacking a prone target is easier and you'd want to try tripping it first).
* The only time primary natural attacks start to act like secondaries is when you're combining manufactured weapon attacks with your natural attacks, like a lizardfolk using a bite and a club, but because we're talking about animals I'm ignoring that for now. :)
I think bite comes first only because "bite" comes before "claw" in alphabetical order. You can do the attacks in any order you want.
I've seen people roll all three attacks at once.If by rolling three separate dice at once, or if you mean rolling each attack quickly in a row, that's okay (so long as we know clearly which roll/die is for which attack).
Three (or six if you include damage dice) with the bite being a different color.
SKR ninja lol
Bite, trip, and claw the dude on the ground.
Best of all possible worlds. Thanks for the clarification.
However, when he stands up I know I get one AoO.
If its the bite, can I try to Trip the bastard again?
Then next round bite and claw him while he is prone.
Then when he stands up again....................and on and on.
...for the leopard, you can roll the bite first and maybe trip, and if you trip then the claws gain the benefit of the target being on the ground. Or you can claw/claw first and then bite (though you probably wouldn't want to do it that way because attacking a prone target is easier and you'd want to try tripping it first).
Awesome! I have missed so many opportunities to do this. Thanks for the clarification guys.
Bite, trip, and claw the dude on the ground.
Best of all possible worlds. Thanks for the clarification.
However, when he stands up I know I get one AoO.
If its the bite, can I try to Trip the bastard again?
Then next round bite and claw him while he is prone.
Then when he stands up again....................and on and on.
Trip: When a prone character stands up and provokes an attack of opportunity, can I use that attack to trip the character again?
No. The attack of opportunity is triggered before the action that triggered it is resolved. In this case, the target is still prone when the attack of opportunity occurs (and you get the normal bonuses when making such an attack). Since the trip combat maneuver does not prevent the target's action, the target then stands up.—Jason Bulmahn, 08/13/10
You can't trip him because he is already prone when your attack of opportunity goes off.
You cannot trip a target that is standing up from prone because he is prone.
Attacks of Opportunity occur BEFORE the action that triggered them is completed. So, a prone target standing up is still prone while you are making your AoO. Should you trip him you are tripping a prone target (no effect) after which the target gets up. There is no 'trip lock' in pathfinder (at least not with this method).
- Gauss
Edit: and ninja'd by Lakesidefantasy :)
I thought it was "Claw Claw Bite Rend", Rage?
Why is this necro'd?
Because jokes are timeless. If the original debate was being rehashed, that'd be one thing, but for someone who was likely searching for a topic, arrived here, and had a witty thought to share that thought... not an issue.