Hi paizo messageboard surfers! I am looking at playing some three player pathfinder with a couple of my pals and my co-player will undoubtedly be playing his usual murderous,plundering,raping, half-orc barbarian.Generally it's hard to maintain a Neutral let alone Good alignment and if the other player doesn't go along with his designs he turns to pvp to solve the difference. He has killed my other bud numerous times and attacked mine and others characters before(been playing with this particular person for 13 years). Mostly we have fun playing but I like to know I can kill his character if it becomes a matter of self defense. One instance in which I took down one of his famous Barbarians was with a heavily armored, "axe and board" Dwarven Fighter. Short of going the same route I wondered if anyone had any good Barbarian killer ideas for me?
A better Barbarian?
shoot, forgot to mention I didn't want to do that either, I like to let him be the barbarian even though yes, I could build a better one.
Rogue with a half-orc bane dagger and cloak of invisiblity?
You could always go with the oft forgotten "Out of character talk"
Also known as the "Dude, don't be a dick" clause.
might be effective at higher level yet doesn't improved uncanny dodge prevent being flanked even by an invisible foe?
keeping a rampaging, treacherous Barbarian at bay appears to be no easy task!
Well you could always build a spellcaster with a high save DC and cast paralyze humanoid. If he fails then you get a coup-de-grace, if nessacary.
Although,what I would do is summon an angel to tell him how what he's doing is evil and how he'll be doomed to hell if he continues. And the n if that doesn't work well... The angel can always bring down the flaming sword.
Or just talk to him out of char like Thefurmonger mentioned.
@ Thefurmonger, I don't want to spoil his fun, I like working with him in combat, I just don't want him strong arming me and the best way I've found to handle it was locking up with him and whittling his character down in combat. In this persons view,"might makes right" and normally I'm fine with that, so long as I don't have to bend knee in supplication with the NPC victims. I like to be somewhat brutal also but there just seems to always be an alpha rivalry with this guy and I want to handle it in game.
Interesting idea...I like it!
Really depends on the type of barbarian he likes to play. If he's playing the prototypical Come and Get Me, Superstitious, Beast Totem, Invulnerable Rager Barbarian, then he will be pretty bad ass. I would probably give a well made paladin even odds, but it doesn't sound like a paladin is an option. I do think a fighter could definitely be built to counter a barbarian as long as you know what you are facing. So if you know his build, it shouldn't be too hard to build something to defeat him.
Good points all D'arandriel and yes I considered a pally especially since we have tweaked the alignment issue some.
I'll also say that having played in similar campaigns, it's sometimes fun to just beat him at his own game. Play along with his character, and the first chance you get, murder him in his sleep, or the entire party and their hired mercenaries could surprise him when he's least expecting it, etc...I'm sure you can think of all sorts of ways for him to meet his untimely demise.
You could just make him calm down.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/calm-emotions
This will suppress his rage, and heck, maybe if he's calmed down he'll realize he shouldn't be attacking his friends in the first place.
If you want to be a melee character and make a dunce out of him, be an Aldori Swordlord. You can end up with ridiculous AC when fighting defensively (and if you go Crane Style/Crane Wing, you can auto-block his first hit on you each round. That's huge).
You can also suppress his rage via http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/aldori-swo rdlord#TOC-Shatter-Confidence-Ex-
Disarming is also a solid tactic for stopping a meleer. Do it as an Aldori (or whatever melee build you prefer), or cast grease on his weapon as a caster.
Grease on his weapon, thats beautiful and i bet my GM would think that was a smooth move also as outside the box ideas are encouraged.
You could just make him calm down.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/calm-emotions
This will suppress his rage, and heck, maybe if he's calmed down he'll realize he shouldn't be attacking his friends in the first place.
If you want to be a melee character and make a dunce out of him, be an Aldori Swordlord. You can end up with ridiculous AC when fighting defensively (and if you go Crane Style/Crane Wing, you can auto-block his first hit on you each round. That's huge).
You can also suppress his rage via http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/aldori-swo rdlord#TOC-Shatter-Confidence-Ex-
Disarming is also a solid tactic for stopping a meleer. Do it as an Aldori (or whatever melee build you prefer), or cast grease on his weapon as a caster.
I would be concerned with any spell against a well made barbarian. At the lower levels, Calm Emotion would probably work, but if he's a human or dwarf with Superstition, I wouldn't count on it.
The Aldori Swordlord is interesting, but it doesn't actually suppress rage, it just suppresses the morale bonuses from rage. So, while significant, the barbarian would still have his non-morale bonus rage powers.
Right, if it's a superstition barb, you'll have a tough time with spells.
The thing about the Aldori Swordlord is that you can get a spectacular AC, and block his first hit of the round. He's got a good chance beat your AC on his first attack, but on his iterative with -5? Not likely. And if you manage to get intimidate->shatter confidence on him, he loses his Str/Con/Will boosts. He gets to keep his rage powers, true, but he also gets to keep his -2 AC.
Actually, a two-weapon fighter rogue can cause massive problems if you go and pick up Greater Two-Weapon Feint. As a Barbarian it will be doubtful he will have a high Sense Motive or Wisdom. From there, disarm him or Sneak Attack him to death. Either works.
Witch Sleep Hex and Accursed Hex feat even if by some miracle he makes his save than you get a second chance. Then have your buddy attack him or for more fun if you have teleport activate your Flight Hex...oh yeah you need Flight Hex for this second one activate feather fall which you can do at will than teleport a mile or so above a volcano you have feather fall active so you fall slowly activate Flight Hex and than fly away unscathed you'll need to be a few levels up for this one but it should work assuming you know where a volcano is if not in the middle of the ocean works as well
so basically at low levels a full-bab class, or if i can wait til later levels, something more subtle like a spellcaster?
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I would suggest a Ranger with all his favored enemy into human. The half orc counts as both an orc and a human for any effect based on race. Take the feat Favored Defense to get half that to AC and CMD. Go High STR build with a falchion for the increased Crit Range and he is toast.
Play a Hexcrafter.
so basically at low levels a full-bab class, or if i can wait til later levels, something more subtle like a spellcaster?
'could play a magus (or literally follow that train of thought for an eldritch knight)
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Hiya.
If you want to *really* see some fun (re: the characters Rage starts to actually spill over into the *player*...)...make something that is ALL defense. Don't worry about trying to out damage him. Just build on silly AC and abilities/items that give you second chances to avoid being hit/grappled. Then...just go full defense on his hairy, raging barbarian @$$. ;)
During combat, make sure to taunt him with things like "Are you *sure* you're a barbarian? I thought they could hit things in addition to acting like a crazed toddler..." and "Really? You have a whole round to tag me...and *that's* the best you could do? LOL!". Eventually the player is going to realize he can't hit you reliably. And then it will dawn on him...a barbarians rage eventually runs out... >:)
When he un-rages, kick the ever living crap outta him until he's unconscious. Then shave him bald head to toe (*every* inch). Dress him in a courtesans dress. Sprinkle him with glitter and perfume. Put make-up on him. Then pimp him out to some *bigger* barbarian while he's still unconscious.
Or, you could go the other way and take a page out of The Gamers: Dorkness Rising and make *50* identical bards. He'll eventually get sick of killing your guy over and over...especially if none of them get any sort of a rise out of you (re: something I suspect the player actually enjoys most about his particular play style). Take that satisfaction away from him (the player)and he may "see the light" and relax on his PvP'ish'ness.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
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A smarmy inquisitor of a war god. He's seen it all, from high plains drifting to trench warfare(with crossbows, naturally) and couldn't care less about some upstart bigot of a berserker. Massive abs aren't everything. The barbarian would do well to leave him in peace, for he's been left in war so many times it's like a lovers' affair by now.
You'll naturally have to make your point as early as possible by carrying a big honking weapon, dueling him to the limit(he won't have anything resembling a good ac score, so shouldn't be too hard) and then uttering the Litany of Weakness. After the party, or just you if want it to sting, heals him back up, raise a smug eyebrow and ask whether he wants a second serving.
more!
I'm not sure how effective Litany of Weakness would be. If he's already raging, then he's still raging, but fatigued, no big deal. If he's rage cycling, then fatigue is meaningless. Anyway, at the end of the day, the best way to beat him is to get the drop on him. This could mean a higher initiative, so you take him out in one of the many ways suggested in this thread before he can rage, you can coup de grace in his sleep, etc. If you don't mind the risk of him coming back one day, drug his alcohol one day, when he wakes up he is slave on a slave ship headed to who knows where. I've done it in one campaign and my character made a nice little profit, and the problem was solved for quite a while. After that the GM used him as an NPC when he did eventually escape.
Haha sold as a slave that's funny! Problem is he either makes a new character to come and kill mine or escapes with a vendetta.
Fey Sorcerer, CHA 20, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus [enchantment].
Dominate Person. Assuming a 26 CHA at 10th level, that's 10+5+8+4= DC 27 Will Save. If your game allows Traits, take Eastern Mysteries, and it's a DC 29 Will Save.
At lower levels, Charm Person is nearly as good.
Cast before he's a Rageboy, then tell him to go do something noble, brave and heroically suicidal.
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Seriously, Coup de Grace him in his sleep. That's it.
No need to build a PC to face him in direct combat.
For an example of how this plays out, see how I did it here.
Depending on the level...
I haven't looked at the Styles but Crane allows for pretty wicked AC's and you can take the Improved/Greater Grapple/Trip route to grapple or trip...next you pin and tie up.
BBT
OP mentioned "in self defense" so I think that's why a lot of us are going the combat route. CdG while sleeping would be a great method outside of combat.
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I'm not sure how effective Litany of Weakness would be. If he's already raging, then he's still raging, but fatigued, no big deal. If he's rage cycling, then fatigue is meaningless.
By golly, you are right! A barbarian can't enter rage while fatigued, but does not drop out of one if he suddenly becomes fatigued, but is already raging. Damn.