My latest character, a rogue, has a phenomenal strength of 10. Which means he can carry 33 lbs and being lightly encumbered, which is important to avoid the nasty penalties.
Now 33 is not much, leather armor alone weights 15 already. Sure I could just not buy a lot of stuff, but I find it silly when someone doesn't even own the barest essentials.
Eventually I'll of course get a Handy Haversack or Muleback Cords and the problem is solved, but till then I need to deal with it.
Idea is that when he gets in combat he drops his backback to the ground (with all the heavy, nice to have things in it that only get in the way when you fight).
But can't really find what action that would be.
Drop an Item is a free action. You shrug the backpack off your shoulders and just kind of let it fall. Doesn't really take any time or effort.
Additionally, you can hire a bag carrier to carry stuff for you, or buy a donkey or mule to carry items.
I had a wizard use a covered wagon pulled by two oxen to carry all his stuff.
Adventurers don't adventure alone. :)
I know the easiest solution is probably "Here, oh big, strong fighter, please carry this, this, this and this for me."
And yes, a donkey is a posibility of course, that I had thought about, but it doesn't feel very rogueish.
However I would agree with Glendwyr that the dropping an item action is meant to drop something you hold in your hand. That's why I was asking here, if you have any idea.
I didn't mean to have the big strong fighter carry it, I meant to hire a hireling (aka, an NPC) to carry it. A trained hireling is 3sp/day, while an untrained hireling is 1sp/day.
For those night robberies, you wouldn't carry a backpack, but you'd probably have a batman like utility belt to carry stuff with you. Those bulky backpacks can get in the way.
If it were my game, though, I'd rule it a swift action to drop it.
I've wrote my GM a mail now asking him, as it seems theres no rule on it, so its up to him.
And why hire a hireling when you have free minions already with lots of free backpack space? :)
I might also drop Dex from 19 to 18 and get 13 strength, but that feels wrong, just so I can carry a bit more
Well, you'll also do a bit of extra damage with a 13 str, too. :)
Swift action seems fair to me. Backpack is secure enough where you can't easily drop it like an item in your hand (so not a free action), but it isn't so secure that you need a moment to stop and remove it (so not a move action). A swift action is in between those, and you can only perform one swift action a round. But it won't hurt your average actions in a round.
As to the hirelings, well, they can do other things for you, like groom your horse, set up camp, cook dinner, be an extra pair of eyes, hold the torch, guard the wagon while you're in the dungeon (if they're not being a torch bearer), help carry treasure out of the dungeon, do second and third watch so your casters can get their precious sleep, etc...
I'm thinking that a heavily loaded backpack is usually at least a few seconds' work to remove. Definitely a move action at least.
Now, carrying everything on a sack over your shoulder -- that you could drop as a free action...
Move action. If it stays secured to your person during a vigorous activity such as melee combat, climbing, jumping, swimming, etc. then it is surely not going to fall off with a mere wiggle. If its a free action, then you should make a strength check overy time you use a standard action.
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Just buy a guard dog that is trained to carry a set of saddle bags. Now you have an alarm clock and a bag carrier.
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And a winter blanket.
Having worn heavy (modern) backpacks (carrying my game books around), I could probably dump the whole thing on the ground with a shrug, especially with some practice, but only if my hands were empty or nearly so. Of course, that's a significant drop for a heavy bag of stuff, backpacks weren't always designed that way, etc.
I've wrote my GM a mail now asking him, as it seems theres no rule on it, so its up to him.
And why hire a hireling when you have free minions already with lots of free backpack space? :)
I might also drop Dex from 19 to 18 and get 13 strength, but that feels wrong, just so I can carry a bit more
For a house rule, I recommend swift. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to carry more stuff while still moving as far. Good for tactics.
Drop an Item is a free action. You shrug the backpack off your shoulders and just kind of let it fall. Doesn't really take any time or effort.
Agreed. A swift action, at most. It takes less than second to shift your shoulders enough to cause a backpack to fall off your body.
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Dropping your backpack shouldn't be an issue on the first round of combat (a move action or less depending on your GM) but there is something to be said for not keeping all of your stuff in one place. Some kind of mount that you can keep the heavier things you don't traditionally need while say spelunking or dungeoneering really should cover a lot of your weight.
As a personal opinion I think you'll get more benefit from the 13 strength over the 19 dexterity then just in terms of carrying capacity.
As a student, I've worn very heavy regular backpacks full of books (example). As a backpacker, I've worn those expensive overnight backpacking trip backpacks that strap on and attach to the person to reduce the amount of movement and ease the weight distribution (and omg they are comfortable; this is the one I own, and I highly recommend it). I've also been in the army, and have worn rucksacks that strap on to the body while going on long marches (which is likely the most comparable backpack to PF; example - that metal piece is called the "ALICE frame," it straps to your back with the kidney straps going around your waist and buckling on the front side, while the metal back end holds the bag).
All of those I can remove very easily and quickly. I especially got good at removing the rucksack while carrying a weapon (M16 or M240B), so it would be the equivalent of carrying a sword or mace while removing a backpack. I wouldn't call it a free action, as that is likened to simply dropping a weapon in hand. But a full movement action? Might be a bit too much. However, removing a shield, which is strapped to your arm, is a movement action (according to CRB page 153). So perhaps it is a move action equivalent.
I would state that you could remove a backpack as a move action while moving (similar to how you can draw a weapon while moving). Or a swift action. After reading that removing shields is a movement action, I'm leaning towards the former.
Also what needs to be taken into account is the type of buckle (for the strap at the waist and possible additional strap that is chest level). Is it a snap buckle like modern backpacks (example)? Those are very easily removed (perhaps swift action). Or does it pin in like your common modern belt (example)? This is how I've seen shields in the SCA attach securely to arms, and likely how the waist straps of a backpack would be in PF. Those would take longer to undo, and require a movement action. Or does it tie on at the waist, like a renaissance faire belt (example)? That might also be a movement action.
While it is of course a free action to drop an item, I interpret that as "drop something you're holding" as opposed to "drop something you're wearing." I couldn't begin to prove this interpretation, though I note that the distinction is explicitly called out in the case of dropping an equipped shield and also exists in the case of dropping worn armor.
In light of the rules for dropping an equipped shield, I use a move action for dropping a worn backpack. But this is obviously a house rule, and the RAW answer is either that it's a free action, or that there is no RAW answer, depending on what you believe "drop an item" means.
This, times a hundred.
You have to consider that your character is not a kid in a t-shirt coming home on a skateboard and dropping his slackworn, nylon-strapped backpack in the front room.
This is a well-equipped adventurer with a leather or hemp pack, wearing tough materials on his body, from which many straps and buckles are hanging, not to mention scabbards, extra belts, purses, maybe a cloak. The backpack itself won't be a modern, easy thing to remove. Who knows how many buckles it has, or where it might fasten?
I've often felt that disagreement on this sort of thing comes up when people do not go out and get enough real experience in their lives, to inform them of the variables in this sort of thing. For instance, somebody who had gone to a Ren Faire, or fought in the SCA, or had training in the military (or even just gone on a hike to camp in the woods) would probably know that all that equipment grabs and is not easily removed. Somebody whose entire experience with backpacks is slipping one off after school would not understand that.
Our wonderfully complicated hobby is a combination of storytelling, game, and simulation. The game says that it's a free action. The simulation says that maybe it's a swift action, I dunno? The game + simulation says that hey it takes a move action to unstrap a shield and drop it, but you can combine it with a regular move, so maybe that's how it should work for an adventurer's backpack. The storytelling says wtf, you're really all talking about this? just do whatever's more dramatic and interesting -- and the game + storytelling can't argue much, except to balk at clear violations of the rules.
This was asked in the Rules Questions forum, so I gave a rules answer. That doesn't mean that it's the only kind that I'm capable of.
For a house rule, I recommend swift. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to carry more stuff while still moving as far. Good for tactics.I've wrote my GM a mail now asking him, as it seems theres no rule on it, so its up to him.
And why hire a hireling when you have free minions already with lots of free backpack space? :)
I might also drop Dex from 19 to 18 and get 13 strength, but that feels wrong, just so I can carry a bit more
I think that extra strength is worth it bro.
