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I really love the flavor of the Mystic Theurge.
However, the class is quite, uh, delayed in its spell-casting powers (a full 3 levels).
I want an honest answer. Assuming I played a Mystic Theurge to the best I could, do you think it would be a good character in PFS? I know later scenarios get very rough, and being behind a full level of spell casting really seems like it'd be difficult for the Theurge to help all that much.
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In my opinion the Mystic Theurge is less then stellar in PFS. You get 4th level spells at level 12, with prepared casting. With Spontaneous Casting its just terrible. I think there are better options available to classes out there, unless of course your playgroup has plans to run modules to get higher then level 12, then MT could be really useful.
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While I fully agree with the above that MT is a total turd of a class, I have a slightly different take on it.
Yes, it's total crap.
Yes, you can still play it in PFS and have fun.
Are you going to be uber powerful? well no.
Do you need to be to contribute to your party? also no.
Bottom line is that PFS is not a campaign that requires high op, in fact, you can get by with a fun, not as great character just fine.
So play whats fun, seriously.
for the first 7 levels you are only rocking 2nd level spells. (this is assuming you went prepared)
But a spont caster is only useing 3rds at 7th, so really your only 1 spell level behind.
At 8th, you get dual 3rds, the spont is only just getting 4ths, so again your not that bad off.
so my advice is "Go for it"
This advice is good up to this point.Do you need to be to contribute to your party? also no.
Yeah, that seems a bit weird. I would not be happy to be in a party full of PCs who don't contribute anything.
As far as the Mystic Theurge goes: I'd say it's a weak class to play, but 60%+ of a PC's ability to contribute comes from the player, not the character (IMO).
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I would like to add to this discussion that there is an alternate way of getting the ability to cast spells on both the arcane and divine lists. The Magaambyan Arcanist from Paths of Prestige which at every level allows you to add a Druid spell of two levels lower then your max spell level to your spell list and to your spellbook/familiar. The character would have lower less spells then a Mystic Theurge, but would still be a full arcane spellcaster.
You get a lot of spells, but my experience in PFS is that most combats are over before you're going to get a chance to burn through most. Like others, I think there are better options.
I would like to add to this discussion that there is an alternate way of getting the ability to cast spells on both the arcane and divine lists. The Magaambyan Arcanist from Paths of Prestige which at every level allows you to add a Druid spell of two levels lower then your max spell level to your spell list and to your spellbook/familiar. The character would have lower less spells then a Mystic Theurge, but would still be a full arcane spellcaster.
This is a good point. If I wanted to play a spellcaster with a mix of arcane and divine spells, I'd probably play a witch.
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I don't know about all of this. A lot of times, people on the boards rail against something before they see it played. Gunslingers, Magi, etc, all came out differently than what is expected.
I think I'm going to have to build a MT because I have NEVER seen one and my theory is that they can be a great buff class with bard-like support abilities.
If you want a crap ton of low level magic I say go for it. If you're expecting high magic I'd go straight caster.
I played a wizard/cleric MT in LG and had a blast; in fact she was one of my favourite characters. I can't remember what level she reached, but it wasn't much past 12. She focused entirely on buffing her meat shields and never got close to combat herself unless it was unavoidable. In the end she did a deal with Mammon to help her achieve world domination (in a Special) and had to retire as she became evil...
I played with a Mystic Theurge in Omaha at NukeCon last year, other than that I haven't seen any in Society play.
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Elephant beats Bat sounds like something out of a game of Arimaa.
To the OP's question, I've been debating Mystic Theurge as well. Now, since even straight-casters wouldn't get to 6th level spells until level 11-12 anyway, I'd have to think that if you're at that level it means you really do know what you're doing with your character and as such you'll contribute to a party just fine without level 6 spells.
That being said, the power level has been on my mind too, putting me right with the OP in this. So far, my only potential solutions/alternative ideas have been:
1 - Magical Knack trait, which lets you boost your caster level by 2 for one spellcasting class (so you can mitigate one of your two Theurge classes from being *too* crippled when you get to the PrC).
2 - Only dip 1 level into the second class (and if you look at the Wildblood Sorcerer lineages, you'll find a way to maximize your spellcasting power/DCs) and go straight up with the other.
3 - Mystic Theurge + Quick Draw + Scrolls. Lots of Scrolls.
4 - Insanely blood-thirsty Wizard + Scrollmaster Archetype. (I swear, one of these days I *will* make one of these just for the laughs around the table...)
So in the end, I guess I'm also looking for continued thoughts on the matter, like the OP.
2 - Only dip 1 level into the second class (and if you look at the Wildblood Sorcerer lineages, you'll find a way to maximize your spellcasting power/DCs) and go straight up with the other.
I've tried this approach as well (sorcerer 1/cleric 4 so far, I think). No complaints from me.
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Sadly, this trait is banned for PFS play. Trust me, I know :(
1 - Magical Knack trait, which lets you boost your caster level by 2 for one spellcasting class (so you can mitigate one of your two Theurge classes from being *too* crippled when you get to the PrC).
Darn, and alas. Thanks for letting me know though.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Playing an oracle or cleric with the right sets of curses/mysteries/domains can get you something very much like a mystic theurge without multiclassing.
For instance, there's an oracle curse in Blood of Angels which gives you sensitive hands and a -4 to weapon attack rolls (not going to matter for such a casting-focused character), but gives you burning hands, flaming sphere, scorching ray, and wall of fire on your spell list. Take a mystery whose bonus spells are of a traditionally "arcane" nature, and you've essentially got a workable mystic theurge.
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I loved my first MT so much that I made a second one after I retired the first one.
Of my 20 characters in PFS it is the only class that I have two of and there are sooooo many options with this character it makes it a lot of fun to play. You can play a blaster, battlefield controller, buffer, mind-twister, summoner, healer, etc...
IMO this class really is an excellent fit into any group providing you have a wide selection of spells to choose from on the arcane side of the class.
What about a Magus 7/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 2 mix?
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Another analysis to make is as follows:
Mystic Theurge requires Divine Caster 3/Arcane Caster 3 (2nd Level Spells in Both Classes); this means you can begin taking Mystic Theurge as of your 7th level. (Soft) Level cap in PFS is 12; you're looking at 6 levels of Mystic Theurge.
This means a net caster level of Divine 9/Arcane 9; you just scrape in to 5th level spells on both sides. You will forever be 3 caster levels behind your fellows on either side of the coin. In exchange, you do get a ton of spells per day and the ability to merge the slots into one pool for spells up to 3rd level. Really, though, this isn't a huge amount of flexibility. You'll also never see higher level Domain or School Specialization abilities; your class features will literally boil down to a ton of spells per day.
You will have great utility, but the second you're unable to cast spells for any reason (Grapple, Antimagic, Nauseated, Panicked, Etc.) you'll be done. If you're wanting an Arcane or Divine Caster who picks up some stuff from the others' spell lists, I'd recommend Pathfinder Savant and a high UMD bonus instead.
EDIT: Ninja'd something fierce in the lazy half hour I spent to type this up.
You will have great utility, but the second you're unable to cast spells for any reason (Grapple, Antimagic, Nauseated, Panicked, Etc.) you'll be done.
This applies to just about everyone, not just Mystic Theurges.
I think they can be great in small groups at the end of high level campaigns. Especially if you buff more that offensive cast.
I have not tried one in PFS and I have not played PFS at it's high end (levels 10-12) yet. Having said that.
Pros
Never know what you are going to have at the table and MT does eventually allow you to handle a variety of caster roles at least halfway decently.
Many feel that PFS is easy so you don't need to be all that uber to contribute and have fun.
You will have lots of spells prepared so if a couple aren't useful that day, it doesn't hurt because you can't use them all up anyway. That lets you prepare some of the more situational spells just in case.
Cons
One of the good things about the MT is piles-o-spells. But I've never seen PFS have very many fights or fights that go on long enough to come any where near needing that many spells.
PFS stops about where many people think the MT starts to get good.
If you really want to try the idea and don't mind not being the powerhouse, I'd say go for it.
Personally, I would be more likely to play an oracle/cleric that the mstery or domain gives me some arcane like spells, sorc that bloodline gives me some divine like spells, or a witch.
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I would definitely recommend focusing on Buff and Utility spells as a Mystic Theurge. Buff and Utility spells usually don't have to worry about DCs, SR, or Attack rolls and as a Mystic Theurge you would get a lot of them with a better variety than any single-classed spell cast. I could also argue that Buff spells are actually more powerful than attack spells, albeit, less flashy.
I remember playing an LG adventure with a 6th level Sorcerer when the rest of the party was level 13+. Nobody complained about me being ineffective when I could Haste the entire party for almost every combat.