Assuming 15 ranks is indeed the most, I suppose it's possible, but you'd be a dedicated skill monkey and that's about it. The only way I can think of to pull this off at level 1 is to play a rogue (8 skill points), human (1 skill point), put your favoured class bonus into another skill point (10 total so far), then somehow manage to get a 20 Int for the extra 5. If you're using a point buy, you'll need to dump something else hard (maybe more than one something else) in order to get the physical scores needed to be effective in combat. If you roll stats, better hope for an 18 (which is no guarantee). In fact, better hope the dice are kind to you, as you'll need good rolls to pull this off playing a rogue with such a heavy Int investment.
It's hard to not suck at combat if, in a 20 point buy, you spend 17 on INT as a Rogue. A more reasonable build would have 13 or 14 and spend only 10 points on INT (plus Human racial to INT) and spread the remaining 10 elsewhere.
STR 14 (5 pts)
DEX 14 (5 pts)
CON 12 (2 pts)
INT 18 (10 pts + racial bonus)
WIS 12 (2 pts)
CHA 7 (-4 pts)
You'll Sneak Attack fairly consistently, but still have a pile of skill points to use. A number of those skill points will, unfortunately, be soaked into compensating for the horrible CHA. Alternatively...
STR 14 (5 pts)
DEX 14 (5 pts)
CON 12 (2 pts)
INT 16 (5 pts + racial bonus)
WIS 12 (3 pts)
CHA 10 (0 pts)
This array is much more PFS-friendly, but caps at 13 skills per level. Each of those skills will be meaningful and useful.
If you're playing a non-PFS game and have alternative stat generation rules, you could be potentially quite effective with a 20 INT. I just don't see it happening on a 20 point buy as a Rogue or Ninja.
If you're going to have all these skill ranks, you're probably going to want a plan where you do something with them in combat. Demoralizing, feinting, making the knowledge checks that figure out creature weaknesses.
But, hrm, maxing INT on a rogue and then staying a pure class rogue is ... I don't know. A max INT rogue should go into Assassin and then run around with a ridiculous Death Attack DC, or go into Duelist and get all that INT to their AC, or be an Arcane Trickster at least... but you're losing skill points with all of those.
Actually, I'd do this with a ranged Inquisitor.
Go Elf
Str 11 (1 here)
Dex 16
Con 11 (1 here)
Int 18
Wis 14 (2 level up points here)
Cha7
This gives 6+4+1(Favored class)= 11 per level.
So fails you challenge BUT. Is More Viable than rogue
Eg. Comprehend Languages as a 1st level spell negates Linguistics completely.
Invisibility is +20 to stealth and lasts min/level.
There is a teamwork feat that you can solo tactics (Stealth Synergy)
Focus on Bows- rogues are poor at ranged. But you can add Destruction Judgement or Divine Favor for damage
Aww hell, I think I'll do this myself.
;)
Pure ranks go rogue or ninja. Otherwise bard wins with versatile Performance :-)
Wizard who starts with 20 int (18+2 racial), adds a total of 5 with each level bonus and Wishes himself +5 inherit has 13 with favored class.
and with rogue you have 19... But this wa 1st level we talked about.
Human Bard at 1st level (20 point buy):
Abilities
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 16 (14+2 racial), Wis 10, Cha 14
Spells
0 - daze, detect magic, mage hand, light
1 - cure light wounds, saving finale
favored class bonus and human bonus in skills
-> 11 skills per level
Feats
Arcane strike -> +1 on damage rolls and magic
Improved Initiative -> Init +4
With a reach weapon Atk +2/Dmg +3
Arcane strike Atk +2/Dmg +3
Inspire Courage & arcane strike Atk +3/Dmg +4
Note:
all knowledge skills are class skills and you can make the checks untrained and gain half your bard level, so with this build you get a base +4 on all of them
Now it gets really interesting at level 2:
You get your first versatile performance ability. Pick dance for example, so if you put 2 ranks in perform (dance), you get perform (dance) +7 AND use that figure for fly and acrobatics, so you get (for two ranks at that level) +7 in perform (dance), acrobatics and fly.
You get another versatile performance every four levels after that, so you basically have to boost 1 perform skill to get good numbers in 3 skills. In the end you have 4 of those abilities, so you only need to put skills in those 4 to get 12 skills boosted.
Plus you have the spells, the performances and can decently melee or go for archery.
I think bard is really excellent for this. The only exception, as stated previously, is if your need real ranks in the specific skill, e.g. acrobatics, to fulfill prerequisites for a feat or such. But with 6 ranks at each level from the class alone that should not be a problem to meet ;-)
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@SangalorInteresting, bard can have more efective skill point thatna rogue but your build do not have maximized it skills (i mean, maxed int)
Yeah, I was going for that "not suck at everything else" part the OP put in. This character is quite viable and useful while having (or getting) a huge amount of effective skills. You can boost int even further by reducing other scores like CON or CHA, but I find this to be a bit better balanced and realistic :-)
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Sucking is relative to the campaign. Not every DM bases character or plot advancement on combat, and not every character has to shine in combat to contribute.
My wife is playing an Int-based rogue opposite my Infernal sorceror/lawyer in an intrigue and plot heavy campaign. She's going for a concept that combines Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler in one package (essentially, their daughter). She gets 14 skill points per level, and is putting her level ups in Int as well, until she gets to 20 Int at 8th level. She has almost all knowledges, can breathe on locks and traps and disarm them, and still can stealth well enough to always get at least one (or two) sneak attacks off before or during a fight. She also speaks something like 10 languages at 6th level!
No one in the party thinks she sucks.
Of course with max int ihe would not be that good, that is the challenge.Yeah, I was going for that "not suck at everything else" part the OP put in. This character is quite viable and useful while having (or getting) a huge amount of effective skills. You can boost int even further by reducing other scores like CON or CHA, but I find this to be a bit better balanced and realistic :-)...
@SangalorInteresting, bard can have more efective skill point thatna rogue but your build do not have maximized it skills (i mean, maxed int)
Well, rather easy: Go this array
Str 7, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 20 (18+2 racial), Wis 10, Cha 12You focus on your casting and your performances, use a crossbow, and take arcane strike and great fortitude at level 1. If you prefer you can also go for Str 10, Dex 10, Cha 13 instead to keep the eldritch heritage route in easy reach.
-> 13 skills.
I still prefer the previous version, though :P
Sucking is relative to the campaign. Not every DM bases character or plot advancement on combat, and not every character has to shine in combat to contribute.
My wife is playing an Int-based rogue opposite my Infernal sorceror/lawyer in an intrigue and plot heavy campaign. She's going for a concept that combines Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler in one package (essentially, their daughter). She gets 14 skill points per level, and is putting her level ups in Int as well, until she gets to 20 Int at 8th level. She has almost all knowledges, can breathe on locks and traps and disarm them, and still can stealth well enough to always get at least one (or two) sneak attacks off before or during a fight. She also speaks something like 10 languages at 6th level!
No one in the party thinks she sucks.
Sucking is relative to the campaign. Not every DM bases character or plot advancement on combat, and not every character has to shine in combat to contribute.
My wife is playing an Int-based rogue opposite my Infernal sorceror/lawyer in an intrigue and plot heavy campaign. She's going for a concept that combines Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler in one package (essentially, their daughter). She gets 14 skill points per level, and is putting her level ups in Int as well, until she gets to 20 Int at 8th level. She has almost all knowledges, can breathe on locks and traps and disarm them, and still can stealth well enough to always get at least one (or two) sneak attacks off before or during a fight. She also speaks something like 10 languages at 6th level!
No one in the party thinks she sucks.
Exactly, not everything is about combat. The build I proposed is able to do everything (you did read about the knowledge section I specifically put in, right?) *including* combat. Plus it gets more effective skills starting at level 2, and it only goes up from there. I also just posted an even more "skill optimized" section.
However, the OP made that statement/the challenge, and I include combat in my personal "don't suck" evaluation. :-)
Dawnflower dervish
make an elf, dump strength and wisdom into the dirt and bump your dex and int as high as they will go.
str 7
dex 16+2
con 14-2
int 16+2
wis 7
cha 13
By the time you get to third level spells you should be able to get something to bump charisma. consider putting a point in it from levels.
crank up your dex at every other opportunity and use at least three performances to acquire the skill sets that you want maxed. you should have loads of skills to play with. I think 15 is untenable, but with the virtual points from versatile performance, you will essentially have 16 once you get that third performance from levels.
their are obvious dangers in building a character with strength that low, but to be honest I think if your clever the dawnflower dervish is the only melee class that can pull it off.
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A possible alternative for low levels is a human with fast learner, improvisation and improved improvisation feats. While it doesn't give you skill ranks it gives you a +4 bonus (at level 3) on all untrained skills and all skills count as trained.
Theoretically that is the equivalent of an infinite number of skill points (craft and Profession skills) :-).
I haven't played my character yet but it will be very, very skilled at low levels. At higher levels, not so much.
And then all you have to do is build an effective character without those 3 feats. Pretty trivial to find LOTS of options for that.
Magus/Bard with the Dervish Dance feat? Save points in Str/Wis and invest in Dex/Int. (Also, Bard saves lots of skill points thanks to Versatile Perfomance)
In my experience, though, after you get 10 skill points per level, you kinda run out of skills... I mean, there are still skills for you to assign ranks to, but they are most likely done better by someone else and probably not that very necessary or even useful to your character.
There is not much difference between having 12 or 30 skill points.
Depends on the campaign, but I for one would probably make use of a lot of traps and poisons. Both craft(trapmaking) and craft(alchemy) benefit from high intelligence. Use a crossbow in combat so you don't need strength.
Also, make use of minor magic, major magic, and familiar rogue talents, the Fast Learner feat, Arcane Strike (might not be allowed with spell-like abilities), Improved Familiar, Evolved Familiar(?), Focused Shot, Second Chance (you may not even get second attacks if using a heavy crossbow so might as well increase your chance to hit with the single attack you do get), Gory Finish, Impact Critical Shot, Learn Ranger Trap, and Quicken Spell-like Ability.
This kind of build won't be great, but it won't suck, either. Good choices for major magic are True Strike or Gravity Bow. Familiars can be selected based on skill bonuses, or on additional spellcasting ability.
Human Int Rogue could actually be effective. How so? Assassin PrC.
Human Rogue 5/Assassin 1
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 13
Cha 10Death Attack has a DC of 19. You get 13 ranks per level of rogue, 9 for the Assassin level. You can have relevant Cha based skills too. Take traits to get knowledges as class skills. Also, potential synergy with Wizard/AT. That sounds like a ton of fun actually...
As Nicos pointed out before the challenge is to have max skill points, your build still has room there ;-)
Of course with max int ihe would not be that good, that is the challenge.Yeah, I was going for that "not suck at everything else" part the OP put in. This character is quite viable and useful while having (or getting) a huge amount of effective skills. You can boost int even further by reducing other scores like CON or CHA, but I find this to be a bit better balanced and realistic :-)...
@SangalorInteresting, bard can have more efective skill point thatna rogue but your build do not have maximized it skills (i mean, maxed int)
Well, rather easy: Go this array
Str 7, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 20 (18+2 racial), Wis 10, Cha 12
You focus on your casting and your performances, use a crossbow, and take arcane strike and great fortitude at level 1. If you prefer you can also go for Str 10, Dex 10, Cha 13 instead to keep the eldritch heritage route in easy reach.
-> 13 skills.I still prefer the previous version, though :P
Just for completeness sake: doing the half-orc thing brings the skills up to 15 at 1st level here :-)
Where is the Open Minded feat from?
Where is the Open Minded feat from?