Wizards need staves?


Rules Questions

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Grand Lodge

Let's not discuss 4E here.

It will lead down a dark road.


Sorry! Habit!

Sczarni

Honestly, I always kind of wished wizards got polearms.

I mean, we all know the wizard isn't melee material, but if you're gonna carry a weapon, why not carry one that keeps you outside of arm's length of your enemy?

A polearm is basically just a staff with a fancy adornment on the end, right?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Oh, I believe it is impolite to make accusations without proof.

Should you prove this to be true, then I am glad.
Predictability creates comfort, comfort breeds complacency.
Eventually, we will all accept it.

Was that a Haiku?

Dark Archive

Glutton wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Oh, I believe it is impolite to make accusations without proof.

Should you prove this to be true, then I am glad.
Predictability creates comfort, comfort breeds complacency.
Eventually, we will all accept it.

Was that a Haiku?

Too many syllables.

Perhaps;
Glad I am, if true
Lazy is he who won't change
All will accept it.

Lacks a seasonal reference, but whaddaryagonnado?


What about:

SPELLCHANNEL
Aura moderate divination; CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, true strike; Price +1 bonus.
DESCRIPTION
This ability can only be placed on daggers, quarterstaves, clubs, and similar weapons, subject to DM discretion.
A spellchanneling weapon is used as a tool to enhance the wielder's spellcasting. If you wield the weapon in both hands, you may treat one hand as free for the purpose of casting spells with somatic components (unless otherwise hindered).
When wielding a spellchanneling weapon, if you make a ranged touch attack with a spell or spell-like ability, you gain a +1 bonus on the attack roll.

SPELLCHANNEL, GREATER
Aura strong divination; CL 11th, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, true strike; Price +2 bonus.
DESCRIPTION
This ability works like Spellchannel, but the bonus on ranged touch attacks increases to +2. You also may add this bonus on melee touch attack made with spells or spell-like abilities.

The idea is that you use the staff, club (rod) or dagger as for targeting.
What do you think? Too good? Useless? I included daggers and clubs since these are (for D&D casters at least) quite classical weapons too, that don't have that much going for them. Still, with the ability to cast while wielding the staff in both hands, quarterstaves are probably the best weapon in most cases (d6 finessable weapon with 1.5*str bonus if you have one).


I think it is a little weak for a +1 bonus. A martial type gets +1 to hit and damage. Also, even blaster-type wizards are not casting rays as often as martial attack.

I would want Spellchannel to effect not only rays (since there are not that many of them) but also fireballs and lightning bolts and the like.

How about something like this:

Flame Channelling
aura moderate evocation; CL 8, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, true strike; Price +1 bonus.
DESCRIPTION
This ability can only be placed on daggers, quarterstaves, clubs, and similar weapons, subject to DM discretion.

A Flame Channelling weapon allows the wielder to cast some spells at +1 caster level. These spells must:
rays or have an area of line, burst, spread, or cone
Deal hit-point damage
Have the [Fire] descriptor

Further, you may apply the weapon's enhancement bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls and save DCs with affected spells.
You may also any target of an affected spell that is hit, or fails its save, is affected by other weapon properties the Flame Channelling weapon has, as if it was hit with the weapon. (If a spell has both a save and an attack roll, this effect triggers only on the failed save.)
Finally, You may treat the hand holding the Flame Channelling weapon as free for the purposes of casting affected spells.

Special
Flame Channelling may be placed on a weapon that does not have an initial +1 enhancement bonus.

--------------------------------
Reasoning
So I figure this is like weapons for casters. You can get it at level 3 or 4, when martial are getting their +1 swords. At first, it boosts damage a little, just like a +1 weapon does not stack with masterwork.

I've limited it to fire spells because martial classes usually need to choose what type of weapon to enchant, so should casters :) Also, I've limited it to blasty spells because they need help, and the last thing I want is to have another +5 to the save DC of Hold Person.

I'm not sure if I worded it correctly, but I want wizards to be able to have a Keen Flame Channelling staff :p Though, a Vicious Flame Channelled Fireball would be... Exciting :D


artificer wrote:
Wizards are usually shown in portraits using staves or canes. I understand that staves and wand could have "charges" with spells. But there is a reason for a Wizard to have a "normal" stave or cane?

They're proficient with them, spells like Shocking Grasp are weak or confusing, and sometimes you either run out of spells or something gets right in your wizard's face.

It can even be intimidating. If you have a staff dripping with bling, people might think it's more powerful (and by extension your character is more powerful) than it actually is.


I's like a staff that allowed use of eltrich blast feat. Fun, flavorful and limited.


Knight Magenta wrote:
I think it is a little weak for a +1 bonus. A martial type gets +1 to hit and damage. Also, even blaster-type wizards are not casting rays as often as martial attack.

However, it's a cheap +1 that can't be easily replicated and it gives you another bonus (being able to cast spell while threatening with quarterstaff).

I'm wary of giving casters, especially arcane casters, powerups as they are already "top tier" classes.

A caster without magic items is still very effective, a fighter without magic gear? Not so much. Magic items should do more for melee than for casters, IMO.


I would just make one Spellchannel. It would be a +1 equivalent bonus and let you add the enhancement bonus of the weapon to touch attacks and ranged touch attacks with spells.


Atarlost wrote:
I would just make one Spellchannel. It would be a +1 equivalent bonus and let you add the enhancement bonus of the weapon to touch attacks and ranged touch attacks with spells.

My fear with this is that already strong options - like Energy Drain and super-boosted Scorching Ray - become quite a bit stronger at a minimal price - you buy a +1 Spellchannel quarterstaff, cast Greater Magic Weapon and woopie you've got a +5 to hit with your Energy Drains.


LazarX wrote:
Adamantine Dragon wrote:

...

Anything I could reasonably want LazarX?

OK, how about a staff that lets me add a +X to my DC on spells? How about a staff that allows me to overcome spell resistance? What about a staff that allows me to reroll a bad saving throw? Or one that lets me grant a fellow party member the ability to regain one spell of level Y or lower?

...

All except for the last, you can design on a staff (or any other kind of item). It may be a different kind of item in the shape of a staff, but the rules tools are there for designing just about all of them.

Much of what you want is described either by existing magic items or feats. In many cases all you need to do is a reshape and a pick of the right feats. I can make a wand in the form of a staff. Nothing would change save it's weight and appearance.

Why not the last? It would be kind of like a pearl of power that you held for your friend?


stringburka wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
I would just make one Spellchannel. It would be a +1 equivalent bonus and let you add the enhancement bonus of the weapon to touch attacks and ranged touch attacks with spells.
My fear with this is that already strong options - like Energy Drain and super-boosted Scorching Ray - become quite a bit stronger at a minimal price - you buy a +1 Spellchannel quarterstaff, cast Greater Magic Weapon and woopie you've got a +5 to hit with your Energy Drains.

You could specify that, like a defensive weapon, the enhancement bonus actually decreases for one purpose when it increases for another. This would basically remove Greater Magic Weapon from that consideration, unless I misunderstand the rules (which I may). Alternatively, simply note that it only applies to permanent enhancement bonuses. This would also bypass spells like Greater Magic Weapon.

Sczarni

The real way to make wizards' staves more powerful without overpowering the wizards themselves? Put Shillelagh on their spell list. ;-P

Honestly, even though you always see wizards carrying a staff, a wizard having a staff makes less sense the more you think about it. The only real reason for a wizard to have one is because they're free and simple to use, and every adventurer really should have a weapon on hand just in case.


Ascalaphus wrote:
If only you could actually start enchanting your Bonded Item staff sooner than level 11, it would be a real competitor. The image is powerful, the rules lackluster.

you can enchant it as a weapon before that. useful if you need to smack some goblins or keep a fighter out of sword reach.


Staff of the master is unique: lets you use charges for Metamagic. But 30K is too pricey. Plus, the spells don't feel Master.

Seeing the preview I made a cheaper version.
Lesser Staff of the Master:

Price 6, 200gp

Reach Metamagic CauseLW (2 charges), Ray of enfeeblement (2 charges)

Metamagic (double slot affect cost)

So it takes 2 charges per slot ignored (unlike the non-lesser version that takes 1).


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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Best Bonded Object? Gotta be a Revolver.
Are wizards automatically profecient with bonded weapons? Also you'd have to wave this around whenever you spellcast. Not exactly subtle.

My next character will be a drunken gunslinger who thinks he is a wizard. Old man dress like a wizard, long beard, but whenever it comes to spells he will just go "Abracadabra!" *BANG* It will be a great point of trouble when he realizes he can only cast one spell.


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Sah wrote:
It will be a great point of trouble when he realizes he can only cast one spell.

I'm... I'm a godsforsaken Sorcerer!


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Staves should be to wizard spell casting what magical enhancements are to martial combat attacks. They should make your spells more effective.

Have you seen Super Genius Games' Rune Staves & Wyrm Wands? It's pretty awesome, I think. Easily expanded, too.

Shadow Lodge

David knott 242 wrote:
Outside its use as a magic item, a staff is also the biggest weapon that most wizards are proficient with.

Despite the fact that they can't cast spells while wielding it.


Kthulhu wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Outside its use as a magic item, a staff is also the biggest weapon that most wizards are proficient with.
Despite the fact that they can't cast spells while wielding it.

To be fair, they're only a free action away from wielding it when casting spells.


coyote6 wrote:
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Staves should be to wizard spell casting what magical enhancements are to martial combat attacks. They should make your spells more effective.
Have you seen Super Genius Games' Rune Staves & Wyrm Wands? It's pretty awesome, I think. Easily expanded, too.

We should not have to resort to third party material to make one of the iconic aspects of wizards be what they should be. Most GMs I play with simply won't allow third party content, having been burned too badly by 3.5 experiences.


Winter_Born wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Cpt. Caboodle wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
By the way, wizards do not need staves at all.
Yes, they do. It's a secret wizard-flavor-thingy.
Nicholas Cage disagrees with you.
Cage disagreeing actually proves the point.

Didn't he play a sorcerer? I don't think that quite qualifies as a Wizard.

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