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PRD: When your character scores a critical hit, roll the damage two, three, or four times, as indicated by its critical multiplier (using all applicable modifiers on each roll), and add all the results together.
Question: If the weapon has a critical multiplier of 3 do I have to roll to attack 3 times or only twice (first attack roll and treat confirmation)in the case of a critical?
Just twice. You don't have to see if you confirm for each level of the multiplier.
Yar.
Indeed.
A Critical hit is a special event, a lucky shot. The multiplier tells you how much you get to multiply your damage for making that ONE awesome attack, hence: a Critical Hit.
With a x2 weapon (such as a longsword, greatsword, club, sickle, etc), if you roll a potential critical hit, you roll again to confirm (this is NOT another attack, just a check to see if it is an especially powerful hit or a regular hit), and if you confirm, you do x2 damage on that one attack.
With a x3 weapon (such as a punching dagger, spear, handaxe, longbow, etc) if you roll a potential critical hit, you roll again to confirm (this is NOT another attack, just a check to see if it is an especially powerful hit or a regular hit), and if you confirm, you do x3 damage on that one attack.
With a x4 weapon (such as a Light Pick, Heavy Pick, Scythe, one end of the Gnome Hooked Hammer, etc) if you roll a potential critical hit, you roll again to confirm (this is NOT another attack, just a check to see if it is an especially powerful hit or a regular hit), and if you confirm, you do x3 damage on that one attack.
etc. (I say etc because there are abilities out there that can increase your weapon's multiplier in specific circumstances)
~P
You mean x4 with the Picks and Scythe, right Pirate?
Ok, just to clarify something Pirate said, the confirmation roll is NOT an extra attack, but it IS treated as an "attack roll" for anything that modifies an attack roll.
Thanks a lot!
Yar!
You mean x4 with the Picks and Scythe, right Pirate?
err, yes. x4 weapons do x4 damage on a confirmed crit. :P
(that's what I get for posting quickly before going to work, copy-pasting instead of typing everything out to save time, and missing one edit and no longer being able to edit my post)
Artificer: You're welcome! :D
~P
I have a medium fighter (titan fighter) wielding a large great axe. A large great axe does 3d6 Damage damage x3 on crits. Does that mean I roll 9d6 on a crit? Or 3d6 plus 3d6?Your critical will deal 9d6 + 3*(any static bonuses you have which are not called out as precision damage).
no, it will deal (3d6)*3 (you roll 3d6 and mulitply the total by 3)
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no, it will deal (3d6)*3 (you roll 3d6 and mulitply the total by 3)I have a medium fighter (titan fighter) wielding a large great axe. A large great axe does 3d6 Damage damage x3 on crits. Does that mean I roll 9d6 on a crit? Or 3d6 plus 3d6?Your critical will deal 9d6 + 3*(any static bonuses you have which are not called out as precision damage).
Critical: The entry in this column notes how the weapon is used with the rules for critical hits. When your character scores a critical hit, roll the damage two, three, or four times, as indicated by its critical multiplier (using all applicable modifiers on each roll), and add all the results together.
You don't multiply, you actually roll again.
no, it will deal (3d6)*3 (you roll 3d6 and mulitply the total by 3)I have a medium fighter (titan fighter) wielding a large great axe. A large great axe does 3d6 Damage damage x3 on crits. Does that mean I roll 9d6 on a crit? Or 3d6 plus 3d6?Your critical will deal 9d6 + 3*(any static bonuses you have which are not called out as precision damage).
That is incorrect. This is what the PRD Says (I will bold the relevant part):
Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a "threat," meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or "crit"). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to "confirm" the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.
Exception: Precision damage (such as from a rogue's sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon abilities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
Increased Threat Range: Sometimes your threat range is greater than 20. That is, you can score a threat on a lower number. In such cases, a roll of lower than 20 is not an automatic hit. Any attack roll that doesn't result in a hit is not a threat.
Increased Critical Multiplier: Some weapons deal better than double damage on a critical hit (see Equipment).
Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires no attack roll cannot score a critical hit. If a spell causes ability damage or drain (see Special Abilities), the damage or drain is doubled on a critical hit.
You roll your damage more than once. You do not actually multiply it.
Ok, just to clarify something Pirate said, the confirmation roll is NOT an extra attack, but it IS treated as an "attack roll" for anything that modifies an attack roll.
If a critical threat is scored, another attack roll is made, using the same modifiers as the original attack roll. If this second attack roll is equal or greater than the target's AC, the hit becomes a critical hit, dealing additional damage.
It is actually a second attack roll.
In my game we multiply rather than roll. But to save time. Either or works really.
Those methods really aren't mathematically interchangeable as they produce different probability distributions.
They do have the same mean:
(9d6) -> 31.5
(3d6)*3 -> 31.5
But they have different standard deviations:
(9d6) -> 5.12
(3d6)*3 -> 8.87
And they have different sample spaces:
(9d6) -> {9, 10, 11, ..., 52, 53, 54}
(3d6)*3 -> {9, 12, 15, ..., 48, 51, 54}
I can understand the appeal of rolling fewer dice, especially as the players start to level up, but it is important to realize that tripling the result of three dice isn't a faster way to roll 9 dice. They are two very different probability experiments.
Your entire post just was read to my group and we all agreed what you said is precisely why we would just rather multiply.
Also 3 of them are still laughing at the idea that rolling 9d6 is somehow just as much time as 3d6 and doing basic math. They took out a timer for it. Way slower.
But to each his own. My table.
He wasn't saying that 9d6 is "as fast", he was saying that 3d6*3 is not the same thing as 9d6 in terms of probability, so 3d6 isn't a faster path to the same results, it's a faster method that will get you different results.
He wasn't saying that 9d6 is "as fast", he was saying that 3d6*3 is not the same thing as 9d6 in terms of probability, so 3d6 isn't a faster path to the same results, it's a faster method that will get you different results.Your entire post just was read to my group and we all agreed what you said is precisely why we would just rather multiply.
Also 3 of them are still laughing at the idea that rolling 9d6 is somehow just as much time as 3d6 and doing basic math. They took out a timer for it. Way slower.
But to each his own. My table.
Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to say. I should have phrased it more clearly.
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We...Don't...care.
And that's fine. I do care, but that's to be expected since I'm a math professor. But since this is the Rules forum, I thought it was important that anyone else reading this thread should be aware that tripling three d6's isn't the same as rolling nine d6's.
And sorry if I come off snippy, my only point was I know what it's supposed to be, what we do at our table and how it's fine for some.
I agree with you. I don't think it's a horrible houserule. If you end up rolling like this a lot, then you are distorting the distributions a bit in exchange for a large savings in time. That's not a bad trade-off. I didn't mean to suggest that your approach was badwrongfun. I'm being technical because mathprofessor and rulesforum. :)
And sorry if I come off snippy, my only point was I know what it's supposed to be, what we do at our table and how it's fine for some.I agree with you. I don't think it's a horrible houserule. If you end up rolling like this a lot, then you are distorting the distributions a bit in exchange for a large savings in time. That's not a bad trade-off. I didn't mean to suggest that your approach was badwrongfun. I'm being technical because mathprofessor and rulesforum. :)
Well, I do even worse than that. These days I either houserule no crits...though that tends to be less fun...
OR,
I houserule that there is NO confirmation roll. It means that you can have a crit fisher that gets a lot of Crits...but at the same time, many of those are martials and some of them need that extra oomph at high level anyways.
The big reason though, is that if someone is a Crit Fisher or does a Crit build...it can slow down combat, and anything that I can do to speed up combat...I'll do at high levels.
I'd rather keep the game moving than having extra things like that slow it down.
Mathmatically, obviously if one has problems with multiplying damage instead of rolling the crit damage...
There's going to be even BIGGER problems with getting rid of having to confirm critical hits.
PS: The downside is it also can be a real hazard to players at times if the enemies also roll crits...but hey...it's a two edged sword and if combat moves faster...well...
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Your entire post just was read to my group and we all agreed what you said is precisely why we would just rather multiply.
Also 3 of them are still laughing at the idea that rolling 9d6 is somehow just as much time as 3d6 and doing basic math. They took out a timer for it. Way slower.
But to each his own. My table.
If you want less dice, worship Abadar and take that Measured Response feat. I jest, yes, your table.
Personally, increasing the time spent when I critical makes it more fun. A little island of me time when I do very well. But then most of my characters tend to have weapons that only critical on a 20, so it's rare for me and should be celebrated.
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Nothing more satisfaying than throwing a big bunch of dice. I cant see why rolling 3 is faster than 9... just roll all them together and sum the results.
