The description they gave for Staves makes it seem stupid and pointless. It's a weapon that makes you sacrifice your spell points/slots just to make you use the spell from the stave? It makes no sense, I might as well just not even bother with a stave because it makes you waste spell points/slots for spells that you can just cast on your own.
Can someone enlighten me as to the purpose of a Stave, if there even is one to begin with?
Well, its like this:
Staves have a set number of charges, and using the spells on the staff uses said charges.
Using a spell from the staff though uses your CL and your stat bonus- rather than say the way a wand does it (crappy Cl and crappy bonus).
The benefit is largely that if the staff has a spell on it thats on your list, but that you either don't know (spont caster) or isn't in your particular book/memoziedd that way (prep'd casterS) then you still have access to the spell.
Just point the stick and kaboom.
The best part is that in the morning you can burn a spell slot to recharge it. This means that, unlike wands, a staff essentially lasts forever. You find one, use it awhile, recharge it, and sell it. or keep it forever if you want to. it never turns into "a stick", like say a wand.
Are all spells good for staves? not necesarily. but they are hardly terrible items in general though, either.
-S
Staves are actually in many cases better now than before, for two reasons:
1 - They use your caster level and your save DCs.
2 - You can recharge them.
The main purpose is to grant you access to spells beyond those you already know, which is very nice for spontaneous casters, since they have a very limited selection of spells.
That's only when recharging the staff, in between adventures it is likely that your magic user recharged the staff to full power. If you don't have a few days to recharge a staff while adventuring then it can become less useful as you'd be able to prep the same in the sacrificed slot.
Since they use your caster level and ability modifier to set the save dc they can be a good way to expand your abilities, especially for a sorc with limited spells known.
Edit: I knew this was taking too long to write and that I'd be ninja'd.
I'm actually glad for this thread.. I just got 50k gold on my witch and was trying to figure out what to do with it.. may go check out some witchy- staves to cover spells I like but don't always memorize.
:)
-S
I think they are great. Yes, if you are running your game like a computer RPG with zero down time then you could have an issue with using it up. But if you are in a game with some more realistic campaign world mechanics you will usually have a few days in town after clearing a dungeon or whatever... or maybe spending a couple of weeks in travel. During those days you recharge the staff.
And it is better then a wand or scroll since you get to use your level, ability, and what not to increase the power of the spell.
Was there ever an official ruling on the price issue?
Aren't all the staves in APG listed at half-ish price?
I think that's a good price for them, other wise they're a little $$$
They do cost a lot, but if you consider you can recharge it forever it is a value over a long campaign. One of my characters has a Staff of Evocations. And if I had to buy all the scrolls I used for Wall of Force and Chain Lightning I cast out of that thing I would be a poor person indeed. Especially if I was using a scroll at the actual level of my caster and not the minimum caster level of the spells. Each scroll would be about 2K in gold or so at this point.
People who want to enable themselves to say,........"this is my boomstick."
pffft
Compare that to the number of Frazetta Conan's standing there with a babe draped around his leg painted on the sides of vans.
O_o
Lol
Still counts as someone equipped with a staff.pffft
Compare that to the number of Frazetta Conan's standing there with a babe draped around his leg painted on the sides of vans.
Yeah, but he's a barbarian. He doesn't have a slot.
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Where are you guys seeing these vans??
I just have to say, the latter part of this thread is highly amusing.
Biker bars, and mobile homes that house "clandestine chemistry..."
Biker bars, and mobile homes that house "clandestine chemistry..."
Why do you hate capitalists with gumption?
True story....there's a "Mystery Machine" driving around Dallas, Tx.....
Biker bars, and mobile homes that house "clandestine chemistry..."Why do you hate capitalists with gumption?
I don't hate them. But the El Camino with the pack of howling wolves painted on the hood just makes me want to yack.
On a more serious note, a level 16 Arcane Sorcerer with Robes of Arcane Heritage can spend three spell levels in order to not use a charge on a staff. Most stock staves don't have 4-9th level spells use one charge, but you can make one. I don't know exactly, but I think it would be an interesting way to cast more higher level spells in a day than nearly any other spell caster if you were into crafting custom staves.
I like Pathfinder and all, but I miss the 3.5 taint mechanics.
Okay, I'll stop. Talk about whether or not staves are chaotic stupid or whatever.
If the GM kills the familiar, then the player will throw a tantrum complaining about how the GM is treating him unfairly and killing his class feature "just because he can", then post a thread on the forums talking about how the GM killed his familiar just because it cast one spell, followed by forumgoers calling the GM mean and vindictive, etc.
Disclaimer: The above doesn't necessarily apply to anyone :)
Can anybody explain to me why the thing I haven't bothered to read through is any good? Because I never bothered to read the whole thing all the way through, and what I've read I clearly did not understand. And now I have made up my mind that all the bad information in my brain has transformed into fact and demand you people make a fool out of me!
Director of Games
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Was there ever an official ruling on the price issue?
Aren't all the staves in APG listed at half-ish price?
I think that's a good price for them, other wise they're a little $$$
Yes, there is a problem with the pricing in the APG. Those staves have been reprinted in Ultimate Equipment and their prices have most certainly been fixed.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Cruising the boards, late night style
Where are you guys seeing these vans??
Here.
Staves are actually in many cases better now than before, for two reasons:
1 - They use your caster level and your save DCs.
2 - You can recharge them.The main purpose is to grant you access to spells beyond those you already know, which is very nice for spontaneous casters, since they have a very limited selection of spells.
They always used your caster level and DCs. This is not a change.
So your only way they are better than before is they can be recharged, but you pay for it as if it had 5 x the charges (still priced as if 50 charges for material components).
I stand corrected. I still think the recharging makes them better, despite costing the same.
Key Points on Staves:
Better then wands for caster level and DC.
Like wands, they keep spells that you don't have to memorize. This means versatility.
Unlike wands, you can recharge them for 'free'.
10 extra charges in a staff is like having 10 extra scrolls ready to go.
however, a staff should also be measured against Pearls of Power. If you have the versatility to memorize a LOT of spells, Pearls allow you to recast ANY spells of particular levels, not just those inside a staff. So, you'll have to balance expanding the utility of YOUR spells, with the expansion of your spell selection.
Staves are generally better for sorcs because of this expansion of ability (pick staves with spells you don't know) then wizards (who get more utility from Pearls 'regenerating' the spells they need again). Generally, a wizard might want a staff of spells that he ALWAYS wants on hand, regardless of what is in his memory, and Pearls. A sorc probably wants a quiver of staves with spells he doesn't have, to make him more versatile, and won't see as much use for Pearls.
==Aelryinth
Back in 3.5 many people wanted rechargable staves. Now we have them. Staves are an emergency resource that you can recharge. I like how staves work now. Only thing I would change is the time it takes to recharge one (10days is a bit much).
- Gauss
Back in 2E, there was an old Mythal you could use to recharge magic items. You focused your will and recharged it, gaining 1 charge and taking 2-8 hp/rd.
Quite a find if you had a cleric friend nearby to heal you. Wasn't restricted to mages, either...your brawny fighter could do the charging for you.
==Aelryinth
Reviving this thread with a related question of my own.
The crux of the matter is that my GM gave me a staff that is way too expensive for my character to recharge.
Details:
I am playing a 5th level cross-blooded sorcerer. (Ifrit with Djinn/Fire Elemental bloodlines. Wanted to play a blaster. Haven't played one in a long time.)
After two months of weekly play, I asked my GM for a plot hook. (We developed her together to be a high-charisma spy. After two months-- no messages from home, no handlers, no missions, no whispers in dark alleys, nothin'.) So, when I made my request for a plot hook a high level character popped in and said... "I'm not sure you're ready, but here you go." And disappeared never to be heard from again. Apparently my GM took my request for a plot hook, to be a request for stuff. And it is nice stuff, so I said thank you very much.
At that time the Staff had
Detect Charm (1st)- Takes 1 charge to cast
Protection from Law (1st)- Takes 1 charge to cast
Shard of Chaos (2nd)- Takes 2 charges to cast
I don't have any of these spells, so recharging it has cost me over 1000gp so far.
In our last game, the GM saved me from a sticky situation by spontaneously putting Dimension Door (4th) into the staff. Using it drained the staff of charges completely. But my character isn't dead, so thank you very much.
But now he has ruled that it will take 10- 4th level spells to recharge the staff, since Dimension Door is a 4th level spell. (And there is something about the staff being made more cheaply, that causes it to expend more charges)
Being a sorcerer, and being a cross-blooded one at that... I do not get 4th level spells until 9th level. To pay a high-level professional to recharge it for me will be 10 x 700 gp= 7000 gp.
And to cast spells out of it is still...
Detect Charm- 1 charge= 700 gp
Protection from Law- 1 charge= 700 gp
Shard of Chaos- 2 charges= 1400 gp
Dimension Door- All remaining charges= up to 7000 gp
It seems to me that it would be cheaper for me to buy wands and scrolls of these spells then to cast them from my staff.
Is the math off somehow? And if so, how can I appreciatively bring it up to my GM who is a RAW guy, and tends to get irate at requests for rule re-examination?
Or shall I just say thank you very much for letting my character live, and put the staff in a closet until I reach 9th level?
Staff Magi, maybe? They don't even need to use spells to recharge their staves; they can use their arcane pool to do so instead. Additionally, they can use magic staves as magic quarterstaffs, which is kind of cool.