Hey all,
I've got a campaign coming up that I will be playing in and running. There's 3 DM's and we've all agreed to rotate every 3 levels, keeping the same characters and utilizing our own characters as NPC's during our turn DMing. It's taking place close to Daggermark in the River Kingdoms and will be a mix of Homebrew adventures and Paizo adventures, possibly utilizing some of the PFS adventurers. Slow XP track.
Jist of it is, we're all going to be in the "military." We're kind of that unit that keeps getting transferred, or being part of something where the rest of the squad gets killed and we have no commanding officer, and sometimes the papers for transfers get lost and we just end up wandering the area until some higher up officer recognizes us and puts us to work ;)
Anyhow- I'm making my character at the moment and wanted some advice. I saw the spell Battering Blast and decided this is what I'd like to build my character around. It might not be the most optimal choice for spells, but I really like the theme behind it. I'm planning on filling my spell list with lots of force effects.
Here's the build:
Human, Arcane Sorcerer, Arcane Bond: Item- Longsword
Stats are a 15 point buy, no dumping.
Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 12
Int:13
Wis:10
Cha: 16+2 for being Human- 18
Traits:
Magical Lineage
Reactionary
1. Combat Casting, Improved Inititave
2.
3. Toughness
4
5 Empower Spell
6
7 Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Specialization-Battering Blast
8
9 Intensify Spell
10
11 Quicken Spell
12
13 **
So this is my proposed feat lay out. I'd like to have Proficiency in Longsword if I could swing it without multi-classing. I've also considered Eldrich Heritage line, picking up abilites from Imperious Bloodline from the ARG.
As far as spells go I'm looking at:
1st: Magic Missile, Mage Armor,
2nd: Warding Weapon, Bestow Weapon Proficency (thinking of using this for my Arcane Bond spell.), Pilfering Hand, Admonishing Ray,
3rd: Battering Blast, Twilight Knife,
4th: Telekinetic Charge,
5th: Wreath of Blades, Wall of Force, Interposing Hand, Telekinesis
6th: Forcefull Hand,
7th: Grasping Hand, Mage's Sword
I'd like to find a way to get Spiritual Weapon on my list somehow, just not sure that's possible. Any advice for additional force spells or spells that seem in theme would be great. I like spells that seem to emulate or animate weapons, spells that move things around the battlefield. I'm also considering the fog line of spells, Obscuring Mist and Haunting mist namely.
What do you guys think?
Anyone?
If you want to melee sorc (with arcane bond) you need to go Sorcerer 6, Martial 1, Eldritch Knight 6. Assuming 13 is your end point. One CL behind regular sorcerer. Take a 30k orange ioun stone in a wayfinder around with you (really expensive).
If you want spiritual weapon on your list you need to take magical aptitude an item creation feat (CWI for ioun stones so you can make them yourself at level 12), then take Pathfinder Savant. Sorcerer 5/Martial 1/Pathfinder Savant 3/Eldritch Knight 3 will get you melee sorcerer with spiritual weapon. Also, another spell of your choice on your list. Two CL behind regular sorcerer. Get the 18k wayfinder and stick two 30k orange ioun stone in it. CWI will save you 39k if you don't mind waiting till level twelve to make the ioun stones (still really expensive).
Not saying you should do this but the option is there. Losing a CL (or two) for spiritual weapon so you can hit with a longsword as a sorcerer is not worth it.
Although, you could go Dragon Disciple and get the arcane bond with Eldritch Heritage.
Assuming you wanted to do damage in melee with said lonsword, I would change the array to 14/10/13/10/10/14+2, putting points in cha when I levelled and investing in a belt of physical might (+2/+4/+6) when I could. With CWI it would be even cheaper, at the very least find someone who can upgrade it so you don't have to buy a completely new belt (really expensive).
Combat Casting and Improved Initiative are both on your bloodline feat list. If you're going to get them early ask your GM if you can get two free feats with your bloodline feats since you're getting them anyway. If not then take them later. If you really want to attack with the longsword you'll need still spell, so that could be your 13th feat. Or buy/make bracers of armor (really expensive).
Battering Blast is a good spell. Force damage, touch attack, bullrush and prone spam is nice. Not so good with the spell resistance but you can't have everything. Also, multiple orbs -and- increasing damage with CL.
You can take Martial Proficiency (Longsword) as a feat if you really want to attack with it but since you're 1/2 bab, lack str and dex, and squishy, can't cast in armor, I wouldn't recommend it. (I don't recommend a weapon as a bonded item either since it's exposed and easily sundered and you won't be hitting with it anyway).
To get the Imperious Bloodline requires Skill Focus [Perform (Oratory)] and the Eldritch feats so you'd have to take out four feats for it (feat intensive). Empower can be easily substituted for a lesser rod, especially if you're just going to spam it on Battering Blast.
You should talk with the rest of the party, find out if they are similarly fixated on a theme/idea for their characters. If they are then you can go ahead with this. Otherwise, I don't have trouble imagining you having to be carried by your team mates or just not being able to do what you want to.
tldr; I think there's a lot of ways you could make a very average sorcerer.
EDIT: I'm not assuming you're changing your build in case my long post is a little confusing. Each spaced paragraph is basically independent.
I do like your character concept and the story behind your party quite a lot. I just think that the limitations of the system are too great to really do all of what you want.
Sorry if my previous sounds harsh or critical :<
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You could go Half-elf and trade Adaptability for proficiency in longsword but you would be losing the human bonus feat. Will you be using traits? If so maybe you can drop improved initiative and grab a trait that gives you a bonus on initiative. Not sure if you included your bloodline feats but you could add improved initiative at 7th level. If at all possible it would be nice for you to drop bestow weapon if able and pick up mirror image it will do wonders to keep you alive.
Aioran, Honest critique is an honest critique. Appreciate the insights. I agree with you on most of your points, at this point is more of a starting point.
I don't plan on being a melee sorcerer. So I don't really want to multi-class around into various melee options. The sword is more of a tag on, since he's in the military and what not. Probably not going to use it all. Thinking about it more, I probably won't have a long sword be an arcane bond.
Yes, we tend to theme our characters and then looks for good ways to optimize within the constraints of the theme.
I'm okay being an average sorcerer, but I'd like to have some above average tricks up my sleeve. That's the way we tend to game.
The first 4 feats, including Empower, were pretty much haphazardly thrown there because I didn't know what feats would be better at those levels.
Maybe this
Force punch
School evocation [force]; Level magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, SEFFECT
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; Spell Resistance yesThis spell charges your hand with telekinetic force. Your successful melee touch attack deals 1d4 points of force damage per level (maximum 10d4) and causes the target to be pushed away from you in a straight line up to 5 feet per two caster levels. For every size category of the target above Medium, reduce the distance pushed by 5 feet (–5 feet for Large, –10 feet for Huge, –15 for Gargantuan, and –20 feet for Colossal) to a minimum of 0 feet. A successful Fortitude save negates the movement but not the damage.
I looked at this spell Nicos, I think Battering Assault is strictly better for the level and power. I might pick it up later though. Thanks for the input!
Is it possible to start as an officer? Then the sword could be your ceremonial one along with your robes as dress uniform, or something along those lines. Also, if there's not a face, you could be the face/leader of the group which works out if you're the highest ranking member/an officer of the squad. (Just as long as it doesn't become the knife you always keep on your person to kill people in conversations/cutscenes but isn't in your inventory /jokes at biowares' expense)
I forgot to suggest this before but ear-piercing scream is a nice 1st level spell that inflicts daze on a failed save and 1d6/2 CL (max 10d6) sonic damage.
Yeah, all of the party is going to have that "officer rank" otherwise we'd just be conscripts rather than a special unit. The group is going to end up being something along the lines of a Seals team of some sort. Looks like 4 players and 1 dm. Currently the only other idea so far is a Bezerker archtype barbarian. Most likely not going the two handed route cause the player hates 2-hand P.A. builds, (see, we're all average!) But so far it does look like my character is going to be the face of the party.
I should mention that after looking at spells I think my spell list is going to incorporate a lot more spells that would make the team more of a "Seal's team"
0. Message, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Light
1. Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Obscuring Mist, Feather Fall, (maybe Ear Piercing Scream)
2. Web, Warding Weapon, Scorching ray, Darkness, Pilfering Hand, Knock
3. Battering Blast, Fireball, Twilight Knife, Invisibility Sphere, Darkvision Communal, Spider Climb Communal,
4. Protection from Energy Communal, Dimension Door, Telekinetic Charge,
5. Wreath of Blades, Telepathic Bond, Wall of Force, Telekinesis
6. Forcefull Hand, Disintegrate, Enemy Hammer, Cold Ice Strike
7. Grasping Hand, Mage's Sword.
Those are spells I'm looking at to emulate some of the tricks a strike team might use. Got Message for communicating, Feather Fall is good for parachuting in. Like the idea of Obscurring Mist and Invis Sphere to cover escapes, Darkness with Darkvision Communal seems good. Telekinetic Charge and Enemy Hammer just seem fun. I'm also thinking Dazing Spell should go on this list somewhere for feats, and maybe Varisian Tattoo. Probably instead of one of those first four that were randomly chosen/placed. Being Human will help expand the spell list to get some more versatility. And Battering Blast will be a good go to spell for damage and position tricks.
Wow. That spell (battering blast) is totally broken.
Yeah Ravingdork, I really like it. It's like Force Punch +3. I really like that it does damage, can have multiple targets, can be used on walls etc. It just seems like a solid spell. Darthben, I like the idea of Vanish, See invis, those are good additions. We have special house rules for teleport- You have to have a location that you've specifically prepared to teleport too, we try to limit it's power, it ruins travel at later levels which is really part of the game we enjoy. Scrying, yes it would be good to have that, but that's another spell that I think would ruin some of the fun of figuring stuff out, on the other hand if I monitored the way I used it I think it could be a worthwhile spell. Alot of the spells would be great, but as a sorcerer I'm limited to about 6 spells known at each level.
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Aioran, Honest critique is an honest critique. Appreciate the insights. I agree with you on most of your points, at this point is more of a starting point.
I don't plan on being a melee sorcerer. So I don't really want to multi-class around into various melee options. The sword is more of a tag on, since he's in the military and what not. Probably not going to use it all. Thinking about it more, I probably won't have a long sword be an arcane bond.
Yes, we tend to theme our characters and then looks for good ways to optimize within the constraints of the theme.
I'm okay being an average sorcerer, but I'd like to have some above average tricks up my sleeve. That's the way we tend to game.
The first 4 feats, including Empower, were pretty much haphazardly thrown there because I didn't know what feats would be better at those levels.
I'd really suggest instead of the Arcane bloodline that you go with one of the bloodlines that will give you extra damage on your spells (like Orc). Blasters can REALLY benefit from an extra damage per die. I understand why you'd want to have an arcane bond with a sword, so that you can enchant it and gain proficiency with it, but I don't think it's really worth it when you're not planning to go melee.
Now, that being said, the Arcane bloodline has its uses besides the arcane bond. Being able to metamagic without increasing the casting time is very useful, although you get it a very limited number of times per day. So, either way will be useful, but I still think Orc bloodline is going to make things easier on you.
This looks like a pretty solid idea. You're definitely missing haste from your spell list, which I believe is key to success for any team, even seal team six.
Consider adding chain of perdition into your list, though I'm not sure which I would remove to make the space for it.
Updated build. What do you guys think of this:
Traits:
Magical Lineage
Reactionary
1 Spell Focus (evocation)
Spell Specialization (Magic Missile)
2
3 Varisan Tattoo
4
5 Toppling Spell
6
7 Spontaneous Metafocus (Battering Assault)
Improved Inititave
8
9 Intensify Spell
10
11 Empower Spell
12
13 Quicken Spell
Combat Casting
14
15 Spell Perfection
Spells:
0: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mage Hand, Message, Light, Root, Spark, Drench
1: Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Feather Fall, Obscurring Mist, Shield, Floating Disk
2: Pilfering Hand, Darkness, Web, Warding Weapon, Admonishing Ray, Scorching Ray
3: Battering Blast, Twilight Knife, Darkvision Communal, Spider Climb, Communal, Invis Sphere, Haste, Chains of Perdition
4: Pro From Energy Communal, Dimension Door, Resilient Sphere,Telekinetic Charge
5: Wreath of Blades, Interposing Hand, Wall of Force, Telekinesis
6: Forceful Hand, Disintegrate, Enemy Hammer, Cold Ice Strike, Leashed Shackles
7: Grasping Hand, Mage's Sword, Forcecage, Reverse Gravity
I noticed that Spell Specialization can be changed at even levels meaning that I could take it early for Magic Missile and shift it to Battering Blast at 6 or 8. I found Toppling Spell which seems broken with Magic Missile. At level 5 your getting 4 trip attacks a round at 8+cha Mod bonus to your trip attempt if I'm doing my math right, for the cost of a second level slot. Spontaneous Metafocus I took for Battering Assault so I could always start applying metamagic feats to it at normal cast time, and the Arcane ability can be used for other utility spells.
I like it Haskul, I may have to steal it for my next spell-slinger!
Does Spell Specialization do anything for Magic Missile? I took "level variable effects" to mean things like damage dice per level.
One way or the other, you may want to consider switching Spell Specialization with Toppling Spell on your progression chart. Toppling Magic Missile at level 1 sounds pretty cool...
Xycal, thats a good point for level 1. I'm not worried about it too much since i'm DM'ing first and we are starting at level 1. But yeah, typically i think you are right about that shift in progression.
You should check out burning arc for one of your 2nd level blasting spots.
Xycal, the other side of not taking Toppling at first that I just realized a few minutes ago was that you'd have to use Magical Lineage on Magic Missile and I'm using it on Battering Assault.
Would like to take a moment and thank everyone for helping with this character! I hope he's a lot of fun.
I am not an expert, but before somebody use toppling magic missile