Hi, i've been meaning to make a melee dragon disciple, and i've now talked my DM into letting my claws and bite be permanent instead of only x rounds.
He is black dragon for RP reasons though i know its not the optimal choice
However this is my build and my idea, please comment. General Ideas are welcome too
Human
Str 16(+2)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 9
Cha 12
Level Class features Feats
Sorc 1(Black dragon) - Enchew materials, claws ,Arcane armor profeciency, Weapon focus (Claws)
Sorc 1/Anti 1 - Smite good 1/day, detect good
Sorc 1/Anti 2 -Touch of coruption, Arcane strike
Sorc 1/Anti 3 - Aura of corwardice, cruelty, plaguebringer
Sorc 1/Anti 4 - Channel energy, smite 2/day
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 1 - Natural amor +1, Weapon specialization
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 2 - Str +2, dragon bite, Toughness
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 3 - Breath weapon, dragon resistance, natural armor +1
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 4 - Natural amor +1, str +2 Dodge
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 5 - Blindsense, Quicken spell
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 6 - Con +2
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 7 - Dragon form 1/day, natural armor +1, feat, Arcane armor mastery
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 8 - Int +2 natural armor +1 Blind fight
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 9 - Wings
Sorc 1/Anti 4/Dd 10 -Dragon form 2/day, blindsense, feat
Thanks for you time
Getting permenant claws and bite seem to be rather substantial bonuses to be getting for free. If I were the GM, I'd look at some of the racial feats that grant netural attacks, and convert some of them for you, using the claws and bite powers as prerequisites instead of the race.
You do not quality for Weapon Focus at level 1. You don't meet the BAB requirement. You also do not meet the Weapon Specialization requirement of Level 4 Fighter.
Quicken Spell is a waste. You do not have sufficient caster levels to actually use it when you get it. In your current build, you can Quicken a Cantrip at level 15. Dump it.
You do not qualify for Arcane Armor Mastery as you don't have Arcane Armor Training. This can be fixed by replacing one of the feats you don't qualify for earlier in the setup.
Your build has the feats skewed to even levels. Fix that.
I'd recommend getting your claws enchanted with permanent Greater Magic Fang.
Why black?
Not to be a downer, but if you really want to melee at level 15...I'd go with a different build.
I would use bard personally.
Bah, just realized that my comment on Arcane Armor Mastery is a little off-place, but Arcane Armor Training is taken when the character does not have proficiency with Light Armor.
Abraham spalding is definitely correct, though. A Bard is probably a stronger choice for the base caster, even if it does reduce the character's bloodline by 1 level and prevents use of claws until level 6.
Ive made the following changes. Sorry for all the mistakes:)
lvl 1 - Toughness, Arcane strike
lvl 3 - Weapon focus
lvl 5 - Weapon specialization(Allowed by dm by others than fighters)
lvl 7 - Arcane armor training
lvl 9 - Dodge
lvl 11 - Arcane armor mastery, Improved initiative(Bloodline)
My build realies on Claw attacks, so bard is not such a good idea, but please inform me of what makes it so much better?
Im playing a reincarnation of an ancient black dragon which is why i cant change the colour.
Hi, i've been meaning to make a melee dragon disciple, and i've now talked my DM into letting my claws and bite be permanent instead of only x rounds.
He is black dragon for RP reasons though i know its not the optimal choice
However this is my build and my idea, please comment. General Ideas are welcome too
If you haven't read my guide, I would recommend it.
If you are going for 4 levels of Antipaladin, see if your GM will let you get Oath of Vengeance. More smites will do you wonders.
Black Dragon is not a bad choice. Since you get your acid breath weapon, you can get Nauseating Bite. It's a monster feat, but you still qualify for it. Nothing like making them make a save every time you hit with your bite.
You may wish to consider the Crossblooded Archetype for additional powers, since you won't be as focused on spellcasting.
Well actually your guide is the inspiration for my idea, nice work.
I however never understood how having two bloodlines will do anything except give the Arcana power and give a -2 will save. It would however fit my story perfectly to go Abyssal.
Either you interpret the rules differently than me or theres something i have missed. Please try to explain how i can benefit from two bloodlines.
...I however never understood how having two bloodlines will do anything except give the Arcana power and give a -2 will save. It would however fit my story perfectly to go Abyssal.
Either you interpret the rules differently than me or theres something i have missed. Please try to explain how i can benefit from two bloodlines...
a) Get 2 bonus class skill (ex knowledge planes and perception)
b) Bonus spells known can be selected from either bloodline (ex don't like spell resistance then you take dismissal)c) both arcana (ex DR/good and +1 acid damage per die)
d) Select powers from either bloodline (ex don't like wings because you have the fly spell then you could take the added summonings)
Now the painful part
1) Spells know is fewer by 1 for each level
2) A -2 on will saves
Ah well then i got it right so far, the only problem is that i go Dragon disciple and therefore i would guess that choosing not to take the dragonbloodline powers isn't really an option. You might be able to interpret the rules so that you may, but i doubt it is intented.
Ah well then i got it right so far, the only problem is that i go Dragon disciple and therefore i would guess that choosing not to take the dragonbloodline powers isn't really an option. You might be able to interpret the rules so that you may, but i doubt it is intented.
From the posts I've seen, most (but not all) GM's would allow it.
Certainly more than would give permanent claws and weapon spec to non-fighters. ;)
I would guess he's allowing because he's thinking of the 3.x version where it eventually turned you into an actual half-dragon (still kooler to my mind).
But the PF version gave alot of other benefits to make up for the little bit lost.
Well actually your guide is the inspiration for my idea, nice work.
I however never understood how having two bloodlines will do anything except give the Arcana power and give a -2 will save. It would however fit my story perfectly to go Abyssal.
Either you interpret the rules differently than me or theres something i have missed. Please try to explain how i can benefit from two bloodlines.
The DD power Blood of Dragons allows you to add your levels of Dragon Disciple to your Sorcerer level to determine your level for your bloodline. Crossblooded sorcerers can choose what bloodline powers they get at first, third, ninth, and 15th levels. Pick Strength of the Abyss for your ninth level power, and it will give you the extra strength you want.
Yes, you do give up a -2 to will saves and know one less spell per spell level. But if you are primarily going to be casting low level buffs over and over, spending most of your time in melee, it isn't bad to consider.
If you want, just go Eldrich heritage for those powers, and you keep your +2 to will saves and get more spells. It's probably worth it.
I have interpreted it that Crossblood Sorceror CAN qualify for DD as long as one of the aspects is Draconic.
You can choose whatever Bloodline Powers you want while advancing in Sorceror,
but DD itself will only grant new powers from the Draconic Bloodline.
Existing abilities chosen from the other Bloodline won't scale with 'sorceror bloodline level' increases from DD.
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I would consider using the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana Battle Sorceror.
It lets you cast with NO ASF% is Light Armor, which means Mithril Breastplate is A-OK.
It's not PRPG per se, but IMHO this is much more legit than just hand-waving rules like you're suggesting.
Otherwise, taking up to 2 Feats to still not be able to use Heavy Armor without ASF% is kind of crappy.
If you want to go that way, I would suggest just taking the base Feat and eating a 5% ASF in Mithril Breastplate.
You might not want to depend on Casting IN Combat with that ASF%, but it works for out of combat buffing/utility,
which with your very lite caster progression in that build, is about all you are good for.
An alternative is going armorless, possibly using a Monk dip for WIS to AC.
Shield Spell, Barkskin, and Mirror Image/Invisiblity/other Miss Chance effects are also your friend.
My build realies on Claw attacks, so bard is not such a good idea, but please inform me of what makes it so much better?
Bard is a better choice due to it's better BAB, better hit dice, better skills, better buffing options, and armored casting.
Also if you take arcane duelist you can get your arcane strike for free.
If you feel the need then you can use eldritch heritage to get your claws at 3rd level instead of 6th (but it will end up being a waste of a feat), and robes of arcane heritage can help get you all the other goodies you want sooner.
I've always wondered about that issue with Eldritch Heritage.
You can't take it with a given Bloodline if you already have that BL.
But nothing stops you from taking levels in Sorceror (or DD) AFTER you have that Feat.
I'm not really sure how to deal with that situation.
I've always wondered about that issue with Eldritch Heritage.
You can't take it with a given Bloodline if you already have that BL.
But nothing stops you from taking levels in Sorceror (or DD) AFTER you have that Feat.
I'm not really sure how to deal with that situation.
Well you no longer meet the prerequisites so:
Prerequisites
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The difficulty is that rule isn't part of the Prerequisites of the Feat, it's listed under the Benefits of the Feat...
Eldritch Heritage
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.
Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.
The 'this bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have' is relevant to the SELECTION of sorceror bloodline that is made when you TAKE the feat, i.e. 'you cannot SELECT a bloodline [for eldritch heritage] that you ALREADY have [from another source, e.g. sorceror class]. If the selection has already been done legally, later gaining the Bloodline from another Class would appear to be legal, if rather wierd.
The difficulty is that rule isn't part of the Prerequisites of the Feat, it's listed under the Benefits of the Feat...
The 'this bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have' is relevant to the SELECTION of sorceror bloodline that is made when you TAKE the feat, i.e. 'you cannot SELECT a bloodline [for eldritch heritage] that you ALREADY have [from another source, e.g. sorceror class]. If the selection has already been done legally, later gaining the Bloodline from another Class would appear to be legal, if rather wierd.Eldritch Heritage
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.
Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.
Bahahahaha! I like the way you think! If I was your GM and you wanted to do this, I'd totally let you do it just for the clever reasoning alone. XD
I also think that rules as strictly written, you are completely right.
I don't think it really matters since if you get the bloodline later on you are just getting what you already have rendering the feat moot all the same.
Yeah, if it's judged that gaining the same ability twice won't net you extra usages/ extra bennies, even though both Eldritch Heritage and your new real Sorceror/DD BL Power hypothetically are 'working', you wouldn't actually benefit. I'm not sure if there is any RAW wording to prohibit such 'double dipping' of abilities or not - AFAIK other abilities available from multiple sources have specific wording saying how multiple sources are 'merged' (e.g. Domains from different Classes), but of course, I don't really think getting 2x usages of Claws (3+CHA) is at all overpowered...
Just the fact that it works (if 'double dipping' works) if you take the Feat/Classes in ONE order, but not in another, is the thing that 'smells' to me. Helping Dragon Disciples to have less limited Claws/Bite usage seems valid enough a concern that it shouldn't just be available to people who build their character in a wierd, counter-intuitive way.
I believe per RAW, that even if a character gains some sort of Claw/Bite via another source (race, feat, of which there are now many), those Claws/Bites don't count for the increased damage and elemental damage from DD. 8-/
I'm still curious as to the question if you can gain the same ability a second time 'independently', e.g. once from Eldritch Heritage and once from Sorceror/DD. If so, it's probably applicable to other BL abilities.
He could however get the abyssal powers from the heritage feats if he wants them.