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Could we cut both the insults and the posturing responses, and get back to boon ideas?
What would be some other cool, permanent abilities that wouldn't break combat (like Todd's darkvision idea)?
Stop being level-headed.
You know, if you liked the permanent darkvision idea, maybe we should just go through the back of the bestiary and list some of the abilities there.
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Two things.
1) That was out of line (the rules comment thing), as it was mean-spirited.
2) Part of brainstorming IS critiquing ideas. You throw out ideas, you get reasons why they aren't good, and get more ideas. If there isn't critique during brainstorming, all you are left with is a mountain of ideas and no analysis or anything concrete on how to organize them into good, bad, indifferent piles.
1) Andrew. Todd apparently doesn't know that gnomes get spell like abilites.
I never said it was game breaking, but having an SLA is more powerful than anything core races get.
So it isn't out of line, and it's not mean spirited. It's his exact words.
2) Part of brain storming is getting all the ideas out there. After you're done brainstorming, the people in the core team start sorting the wheat from the chaff. This thread has been open, how long? Do you really think every possible idea is out there?
Now I'm still at work, let me get home and look at my faction guide, and I'll think of more faction specific boons.
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A cool idea might be for a boon that say only 10 people ever will get (drawing at Gen Con?) like the ability to work with Mike Brock and Mark Moreland to craft a custom magic item (or race?--no, stop throwing things at me!) or whatever.Completely custom item would be cool. Maybe access to a custom spell. A spell you could even pass around and spread the love (and your creativity).
I don't think it should be able to be spread around. Then it loses some of its luster. If it is unique, it should remain unique. Like a Signature for that character.
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I don't think it should be able to be spread around. Then it loses some of its luster. If it is unique, it should remain unique. Like a Signature for that character.A cool idea might be for a boon that say only 10 people ever will get (drawing at Gen Con?) like the ability to work with Mike Brock and Mark Moreland to craft a custom magic item (or race?--no, stop throwing things at me!) or whatever.Completely custom item would be cool. Maybe access to a custom spell. A spell you could even pass around and spread the love (and your creativity).
Well a sorcerer couldn't give it away, and a Wizard doesn't have to if they don't want.
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I don't think it should be able to be spread around. Then it loses some of its luster. If it is unique, it should remain unique. Like a Signature for that character.A cool idea might be for a boon that say only 10 people ever will get (drawing at Gen Con?) like the ability to work with Mike Brock and Mark Moreland to craft a custom magic item (or race?--no, stop throwing things at me!) or whatever.Completely custom item would be cool. Maybe access to a custom spell. A spell you could even pass around and spread the love (and your creativity).
The idea could have merit though and restrictions... if a spell/scroll... it could be named... and the restriction is that only the original owner of the spell/scroll could pass it along ... that way you won't have Tom from CA coming to Iowa grabbing the spell and taking it back to Dick and Harry.. Dick and Harry would have to come to Iowa as well if they wanted the spell/scroll
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I don't think it should be able to be spread around. Then it loses some of its luster. If it is unique, it should remain unique. Like a Signature for that character.A cool idea might be for a boon that say only 10 people ever will get (drawing at Gen Con?) like the ability to work with Mike Brock and Mark Moreland to craft a custom magic item (or race?--no, stop throwing things at me!) or whatever.Completely custom item would be cool. Maybe access to a custom spell. A spell you could even pass around and spread the love (and your creativity).
There are scenarios with unique and intelligent items. (just stating it)
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Matthew,
I'm not sure if you're aware, but your posts primarily are coming across bitter, negative, and as if you're looking to pick a fight. If that's not your intent then you may want to double check the way things are coming across.
Todd,
You're not beyond reproach. I used to catch Doug Miles up on the rules all the time when I wasn't even a 1-star GM. Though, I do respect your thoughts. Just noting that you had a small god complex thing running there for a moment.
In general,
Let's keep this positive people! My suggestion is a 10% discount on all purchases in a specific region (Andoran, Ustalav, w/e), but not Absalom...
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The idea could have merit though and restrictions... if a spell/scroll... it could be named... and the restriction is that only the original owner of the spell/scroll could pass it along ... that way you won't have Tom from CA coming to Iowa grabbing the spell and taking it back to Dick and Harry.. Dick and Harry would have to come to Iowa as well if they wanted the spell/scrollI don't think it should be able to be spread around. Then it loses some of its luster. If it is unique, it should remain unique. Like a Signature for that character.A cool idea might be for a boon that say only 10 people ever will get (drawing at Gen Con?) like the ability to work with Mike Brock and Mark Moreland to craft a custom magic item (or race?--no, stop throwing things at me!) or whatever.Completely custom item would be cool. Maybe access to a custom spell. A spell you could even pass around and spread the love (and your creativity).
Only problem I see with this, is if the spell (or item or race) is not in a book anywhere, then it has to be completely written on the chronicle sheet. If you can share it with others, then you essentially have to make a copy of the chronicle, so the person has that text.
Allowing copying of chronicles in this way is opening pandora's box. I think we'd best leave that stone unturned.
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Matthew,
I'm not sure if you're aware, but your posts primarily are coming across bitter, negative, and as if you're looking to pick a fight. If that's not your intent then you may want to double check the way things are coming across.Todd,
You're not beyond reproach. I used to catch Doug Miles up on the rules all the time when I wasn't even a 1-star GM. Though, I do respect your thoughts. Just noting that you had a small god complex thing running there for a moment.In general,
Let's keep this positive people! My suggestion is a 10% discount on all purchases in a specific region (Andoran, Ustalav, w/e), but not Absalom...
Dan...are you saying you don't think I'm a god? If Ghostbusters taught me anything, it's that if you are asked if you're a god, you say YES!
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Not sure why I'm hung up on multi-part boons, but:
What about boons that are only given away in certain parts of the country/world. These could either a) correlate with scenarios being offered or b) have parts of Golarion assigned to the real world.
The thought here is that by going to a convention in a certain region OR going to a convention with specific scenarios offered (depending on which way the idea is fleshed out), grants a special boon.
This could be done in character as well. Much like the chronicle I mentioned before, have a chronicle with 20 regions of Golarion on it. Each time your character goes to that region, check it off. After you check off every region, you get a powerful boon (with the assumption your character would be late in their career).
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The idea could have merit though and restrictions... if a spell/scroll... it could be named... and the restriction is that only the original owner of the spell/scroll could pass it along ... that way you won't have Tom from CA coming to Iowa grabbing the spell and taking it back to Dick and Harry.. Dick and Harry would have to come to Iowa as well if they wanted the spell/scrollI don't think it should be able to be spread around. Then it loses some of its luster. If it is unique, it should remain unique. Like a Signature for that character.A cool idea might be for a boon that say only 10 people ever will get (drawing at Gen Con?) like the ability to work with Mike Brock and Mark Moreland to craft a custom magic item (or race?--no, stop throwing things at me!) or whatever.Completely custom item would be cool. Maybe access to a custom spell. A spell you could even pass around and spread the love (and your creativity).Only problem I see with this, is if the spell (or item or race) is not in a book anywhere, then it has to be completely written on the chronicle sheet. If you can share it with others, then you essentially have to make a copy of the chronicle, so the person has that text.
Allowing copying of chronicles in this way is opening pandora's box. I think we'd best leave that stone unturned.
Hrmm ... but it could be an interesting stone to turn over .. there would have to be othe restrictions for sure ..
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Not sure why I'm hung up on multi-part boons, but:
What about boons that are only given away in certain parts of the country/world. These could either a) correlate with scenarios being offered or b) have parts of Golarion assigned to the real world.
The thought here is that by going to a convention in a certain region OR going to a convention with specific scenarios offered (depending on which way the idea is fleshed out), grants a special boon.
This could be done in character as well. Much like the chronicle I mentioned before, have a chronicle with 20 regions of Golarion on it. Each time your character goes to that region, check it off. After you check off every region, you get a powerful boon (with the assumption your character would be late in their career).
How do we balance that to avoid a LG problem where some regions had significantly better certs, and some had poop certs?
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Not sure why I'm hung up on multi-part boons, but:
What about boons that are only given away in certain parts of the country/world. These could either a) correlate with scenarios being offered or b) have parts of Golarion assigned to the real world.
The thought here is that by going to a convention in a certain region OR going to a convention with specific scenarios offered (depending on which way the idea is fleshed out), grants a special boon.
This could be done in character as well. Much like the chronicle I mentioned before, have a chronicle with 20 regions of Golarion on it. Each time your character goes to that region, check it off. After you check off every region, you get a powerful boon (with the assumption your character would be late in their career).
What about people who play online? What region do they count as?
Also, are there enough scenarios in a wide enough variety of places to work this idea without people planning in meticulous detail what scenarios that play in what order?
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Let's see about getting off the "sharing boons" idea. I think someone mentioned a spell boon, referenced wizards' ability to get each other's spells via scribing, and now people are discussing why sharing unique items from boons doesn't work. Let's write that one off as a game of telephone and move on. :P
@Dan - I like the discount idea, but a region limit wouldn't work due to being able to shop wherever you like between scenarios. But maybe a discount on certain types of items?
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Hrmm ... but it could be an interesting stone to turn over .. there would have to be othe restrictions for sure ..
Only problem I see with this, is if the spell (or item or race) is not in a book anywhere, then it has to be completely written on the chronicle sheet. If you can share it with others, then you essentially have to make a copy of the chronicle, so the person has that text.Allowing copying of chronicles in this way is opening pandora's box. I think we'd best leave that stone unturned.
Wouldn't an easy fix be to write the Player # at the top of the boon, thus eliminating it being exchanged?
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Not sure why I'm hung up on multi-part boons, but:
What about boons that are only given away in certain parts of the country/world. These could either a) correlate with scenarios being offered or b) have parts of Golarion assigned to the real world.
The thought here is that by going to a convention in a certain region OR going to a convention with specific scenarios offered (depending on which way the idea is fleshed out), grants a special boon.
This could be done in character as well. Much like the chronicle I mentioned before, have a chronicle with 20 regions of Golarion on it. Each time your character goes to that region, check it off. After you check off every region, you get a powerful boon (with the assumption your character would be late in their career).
What about people who play online? What region do they count as?
Also, are there enough scenarios in a wide enough variety of places to work this idea without people planning in meticulous detail what scenarios that play in what order?
If we are assuming these boons are only available at a con, then unless there becomes an Online Convention, online players wouldn't have access to a region specific con boon.
But should the online community be able to rig up an online convention, and Mike recognizes it as such, I don't see why "On-Line" couldn't be written up as a region of its own.
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How do we balance that to avoid a LG problem where some regions had significantly better certs, and some had poop certs?Why do they have to be balanced? Work towards making things unique, not powerful. There's a difference.
My thought process is similar to how Mike Brock doesn't care for the constant whining regarding access to certain races. If we have say region A that has "better" mechanical capability than Region B, then Region B's players will call foul and whine constantly about how they can't attract as many players as Region A, and blah blah blah.
Note the quotations...lol
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Not sure why I'm hung up on multi-part boons, but:
What about boons that are only given away in certain parts of the country/world. These could either a) correlate with scenarios being offered or b) have parts of Golarion assigned to the real world.
The thought here is that by going to a convention in a certain region OR going to a convention with specific scenarios offered (depending on which way the idea is fleshed out), grants a special boon.
This could be done in character as well. Much like the chronicle I mentioned before, have a chronicle with 20 regions of Golarion on it. Each time your character goes to that region, check it off. After you check off every region, you get a powerful boon (with the assumption your character would be late in their career).
What about people who play online? What region do they count as?
Also, are there enough scenarios in a wide enough variety of places to work this idea without people planning in meticulous detail what scenarios that play in what order?
If we are assuming these boons are only available at a con, then unless there becomes an Online Convention, online players wouldn't have access to a region specific con boon.
But should the online community be able to rig up an online convention, and Mike recognizes it as such, I don't see why "On-Line" couldn't be written up as a region of its own.
Exactly. It could be synonymous with the outer planes or other worlds in the solar system.
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Let's see about getting off the "sharing boons" idea. I think someone mentioned a spell boon, referenced wizards' ability to get each other's spells via scribing, and now people are discussing why sharing unique items from boons doesn't work. Let's write that one off as a game of telephone and move on. :P
@Dan - I like the discount idea, but a region limit wouldn't work due to being able to shop wherever you like between scenarios. But maybe a discount on certain types of items?
Because the sharing of a unique spell applies to how the boon would be administered. You gotta consider all the implications to the game as a whole for each and every idea.
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I don't think that an online con would be cohesive enough to count as such. It would just be a bunch of people running VTT games at the same time as opposed to an actual shared experience.
I dunno, it could be like everyone getting on one Vent for their voice portion, and running on one VTT. I think the idea has merit, but needs work.
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How do we balance that to avoid a LG problem where some regions had significantly better certs, and some had poop certs?Why do they have to be balanced? Work towards making things unique, not powerful. There's a difference.My thought process is similar to how Mike Brock doesn't care for the constant whining. If we have say region A that has "better" mechanical capability than Region B, then Region B's players will call foul and whine constantly about how they can't attract as many players as Region A, and blah blah blah.
Note the quotations...lol
So reward regions for growth? If region A grew the most (% or per capita or whatever), make their boon slightly more rewarding.
One of the things that was noted to me by a very famous PFS person who also played a ton of LG is that there's no incentive w/in the campaign to travel outside of your home region.
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Boons that may be cool:
- You character gets a unique, non combatant follower. Heralds and porters are cool, but can I get someone to do the talking for me? Maybe a translator. He has common and four languages. Pathfinders go all over the globe, maybe you have someone with ranks in know. geography or local at like a +2. Nothing too fancy.
- Your character gains a flaw with in game mechanics and a benefit. From your ordeal fighting off all those undead, you get a +2 to identify undead in the future. However, the battle left you scarred and you suffer a -2 on diplomacy checks with nobility. Etc, etc.
- Your character imparts some knowledge to a fellow pathfinder. After the game, your ranger shows that noisy, gorram fighter how to freaking stealth. Pick a skill that you have one or more ranks in, and a player that has no ranks in that skill. You train that player in that skill, granting them a number of ranks equal to 1/2 their level, minimum one. Maybe that skill even becomes a class skill. Whatever, doesn't matter.
- You character learns how to pack their gear better. Your carrying capacity increases as if your strength score was 2 higher than it actually is. Pseudo muleback cords.
- Your character takes an advanced course in adventuring at the Grand Lodge in Absalom. As a result, you've learned to keep even the oddest of tools in your pack. In game mechanic is that once per session you can pull a single item of value 50gp or less out of your pack, as it was something that you purchased because you thought it might be useful but had forgotten about. You have to pay for the item you retrieve at the end of the session, recording it on your chronicle sheet.
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I'm not sure what all this region talk is for. Can we get back to ideas for boons that could replace race boons?
Read.
Not sure why I'm hung up on multi-part boons, but:
What about boons that are only given away in certain parts of the country/world. These could either a) correlate with scenarios being offered or b) have parts of Golarion assigned to the real world.
The thought here is that by going to a convention in a certain region OR going to a convention with specific scenarios offered (depending on which way the idea is fleshed out), grants a special boon.
This could be done in character as well. Much like the chronicle I mentioned before, have a chronicle with 20 regions of Golarion on it. Each time your character goes to that region, check it off. After you check off every region, you get a powerful boon (with the assumption your character would be late in their career).
The point of all of this discussion is to come up with ideas to get more people to more conventions beyond the use of racial boons.
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@Dan - I like the discount idea, but a region limit wouldn't work due to being able to shop wherever you like between scenarios. But maybe a discount on certain types of items?
That's easy, state that it can only be purchased if the last chronicle took place in X region, and has to be recorded on that chronicle.
Need to make a purchase in Andoran, and my last chronicle was Beggar's pearl, good to go.
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I don't think that an online con would be cohesive enough to count as such. It would just be a bunch of people running VTT games at the same time as opposed to an actual shared experience.I dunno, it could be like everyone getting on one Vent for their voice portion, and running on one VTT. I think the idea has merit, but needs work.
Thats a brilliant idea that didn't even occur to me. Everyone hangs out and pops into the appropriate channel for each table.
Who wants to help me organize this as a kind of pilot project?
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I'm not sure what all this region talk is for. Can we get back to ideas for boons that could replace race boons?
Another idea:
• Use CHA instead of WIS for will saves
The region idea WAS an idea for a con boon that would replace a race boon. Just divided into regional applications there-of.
So that say Don in Boston gets to give an Andoran Drinking Mug out while Kyle in Atlanta gets to give a Qadiran Phoenix Feather.
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Boons that may be cool:
- You character gets a unique, non combatant follower. Heralds and porters are cool, but can I get someone to do the talking for me? Maybe a translator. He has common and four languages. Pathfinders go all over the globe, maybe you have someone with ranks in know. geography or local at like a +2. Nothing too fancy.- Your character gains a flaw with in game mechanics and a benefit. From your ordeal fighting off all those undead, you get a +2 to identify undead in the future. However, the battle left you scarred and you suffer a -2 on diplomacy checks with nobility. Etc, etc.
- Your character imparts some knowledge to a fellow pathfinder. After the game, your ranger shows that noisy, gorram fighter how to freaking stealth. Pick a skill that you have one or more ranks in, and a player that has no ranks in that skill. You train that player in that skill, granting them a number of ranks equal to 1/2 their level, minimum one. Maybe that skill even becomes a class skill. Whatever, doesn't matter.
- You character learns how to pack their gear better. Your carrying capacity increases as if your strength score was 2 higher than it actually is. Pseudo muleback cords.
- Your character takes an advanced course in adventuring at the Grand Lodge in Absalom. As a result, you've learned to keep even the oddest of tools in your pack. In game mechanic is that once per session you can pull a single item of value 50gp or less out of your pack, as it was something that you purchased because you thought it might be useful but had forgotten about. You have to pay for the item you retrieve at the end of the session, recording it on your chronicle sheet.
Some good stuff in there.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Read.
Dude.
The point of all of this discussion is to come up with ideas to get more people to more conventions beyond the use of racial boons.
I thought it was to replace racial boons with other boons. But I guess a non-boon way to get people to conventions makes sense too.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I'm not sure what all this region talk is for. Can we get back to ideas for boons that could replace race boons?
Another idea:
• Use CHA instead of WIS for will savesThe region idea WAS an idea for a con boon that would replace a race boon. Just divided into regional applications there-of.
So that say Don in Boston gets to give an Andoran Drinking Mug out while Kyle in Atlanta gets to give a Qadiran Phoenix Feather.
I guess I missed something among the legendary update rate in this thread. :P
Well, boons for classes would definitely get people going to cons.
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Read.Dude.
No. Dude!
The point of all of this discussion is to come up with ideas to get more people to more conventions beyond the use of racial boons.I thought it was to replace racial boons with other boons. But I guess a non-boon way to get people to conventions makes sense too.
Boon = Reward on Chronicle. That's what I was proposing.
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To be pferfectly honest, I dont know that there could be a reasonable boon released that would result with me attending a con I wouldnt normally attend, just cause of said boon.
My suggestion, and probably the only one I'll offer, cause you guys are coming up with some decent stuff:
A boon that provides the ability to retrain (one time) something regarding your character.
Maybe the traits you chose at level 1 but now dont like.
Maybe a feat/ multiple feats.
Maybe spells learned.
Maybe the ability to redistribute your stat points.
Maybe skill points.
Maybe favored class bonuses.
Maybe racial features (considering we have the ARG coming out).
Maybe class features that you have options for (Rage Powers, Cleric Domains, Rogue Talents, etc).
I dunno which one would be the best use of something like this, as some would obviously be more valuable than others. This may be something that gets shot down simply on the principle of not wanting to get into allowing rebuilding above 1st level.
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@Dan,
I'm not being negative, you wouldn't like me when I'm negative. :-) Am I passionate? Yes. I'd point out insults coming my way, but that would give people an inflated sense of self worth.
And I *am* offering alternatives. I've been arguing about the racial boons since the ARG was on the publishing list. I've put (serious) boon suggestions off the top of my head. I am passionate about this, and want this to be a positive process. One extra trait would be nice but not unbalancing. 4? When I read that I thought that Todd was just stirring stuff up more (it seems obviously broken to me), but I didn't say anything because this is for ideas, not for shooting stuff down.
As an aside, you said "My thought process is similar to how Mike Brock doesn't care for the constant whining regarding access to certain races." That reads very bitter and confrontational to me. I wrote the other day that text strips context and that some posts were coming across as confrontational when they likely were not intended to. I never said I was immune to that effect. When someone says "I don't want a menagerie," I wonder how they'd react if a party of boons showed up at his table. There's his menagerie right at his table? Is he going to break down, or shut up and DM?
There's a difference between arguing a point and whining. If I was whining I'd not be teaching my niece and nephew to play, I'd not be driving 160 miles on a weekend to get them to gaming and back again, and I'd not be wrestling my social anxiety disorder to do so. I am passionate about RPGs, and about opening up the ARG for organized play.
Look at it this way, a couple months ago, Mike said flat out "No". Now we're discussing alternatives. I look at that as a small victory. If new boons are available, and it opens up the ARG, everyone wins.