Alchemist Tentacle Debate: Natural Attack?

[KingofB]

Having a debate with some people about alchemist discoveries, and I was hoping for some feedback.

The Alchemist Tentacle discovery says it 'does not give the alchemist extra attacks.' If you wanted to use it, you have to supplement a normal attack for it.

I read it as being like a normal natural attack in combination with manufactured attacks: To use it, you have to sacrifice a normal melee attack, unless it specifies otherwise. Like a sorcerer's claws. A sorcerer doesn't gain two claw attacks in addition to their normal attack, they have to use a full round action of natural attacks to use all their natural weapons.

However, here is the question: The tentacle is a natural attack. If an alchemist uses a feral mutagen to have three natural attacks, and makes a full round of natural attacks, can the tentacle be used then in addition to their normal natural attacks?

Normally, a creature can use as many natural attacks as it has available for a round. That is what makes Eidolon's so powerful. Stick 7 natural attacks on there, and let it rip.

I think the reason it says it doesn't give extra attacks is because the idea I see most often used against my claim, that most people will try to use a hand or tentacle to wield a weapon, and having an extra arm does not give you extra attacks with weapons. Like most other natural attacks, an orc's bite being a noted exception, if you are using a manufactured weapon, you have to swap them out. So I know and understand the tentacle can't be used to wield an extra weapon, or be used in addition to weapons without burning up an attack.

TL DR; Alchemist Tentacle discovery: If using a full round action of NATURAL ATTACKS ONLY, can it be used like a regular natural attack?

[Grick]

KingofB wrote:

A sorcerer doesn't gain two claw attacks in addition to their normal attack

Sure they do. Sorcerer claws (via bloodline) are normal natural weapons.

A sorcerer can Two-Weapon fight full attack with an unarmed strike kick (main hand), armor spikes (off-hand), a toothy bite (secondary natural), and both claws (also secondary natural).

The tentacle is not a normal natural weapon, it has a limiter. Specifically, it does not grant any extra attacks. So look at how many attacks you could make without it, that's the same number of attacks you can make with it. You can just swap one of your existing attacks to use the tentacle instead.

There was recently a thread on this subject you might find interesting.

[aku]

That is not right. A kick is not a "natural " attack for non monk humanoid...normally. and you cant attack armor spikes and claws at the same time.

[Tarantula]

"An unarmed strike is an attack such as a punch or a kick where the attacker is not using a weapon to make the attack."

A kick is a unarmed strike for a humanoid. If the sorcerer did not have IUS she would do non-lethal damage and provoke for kicking, but she still can do it.

Armor spikes state explicitly, "You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.)"

So yes, sorcerer can unarmed strike (main) armor spike (off) bite (secondary natural) claw 1 (secondary natural) and claw 2 (secondary natural) on a full-attack action.

[Mortalis]

Grick wrote:

KingofB wrote:

A sorcerer doesn't gain two claw attacks in addition to their normal attack

Sure they do. Sorcerer claws (via bloodline) are normal natural weapons.

A sorcerer can Two-Weapon fight full attack with an unarmed strike kick (main hand), armor spikes (off-hand), a toothy bite (secondary natural), and both claws (also secondary natural).

The tentacle is not a normal natural weapon, it has a limiter. Specifically, it does not grant any extra attacks. So look at how many attacks you could make without it, that's the same number of attacks you can make with it. You can just swap one of your existing attacks to use the tentacle instead.

There was recently a thread on this subject you might find interesting.

Unless your intent was to promote Paizo products, I'd say your link doesn't work.

[Cheapy]

Mortalis, go to this page and hit ctrl-f then search for tentacle.

[blackbloodtroll]

aku wrote:

That is not right. A kick is not a "natural " attack for non monk humanoid...normally. and you cant attack armor spikes and claws at the same time.

Monks have no monopoly on the ability to kick.

Also, an unarmed strike functions as a manufactured weapon attack, in regards to things like BAB.

[Mortalis]

Thanks for the assist Cheapy. :)