Greetings Paizonians, I want to make a chakram ranger that is viable, sure longbows are effective but everyone and their mother has made one, and chakrams aren't that bad, they deal 1d8 and you can add your str mod without wasting so much gold, they are ligh weight and cheap to make, the only problem i've encountered is when a creature has DR it can get tricky, and since they are not treated as ammunition like say, arrows or shurikens, it can get quite expensive making 4 returning weapons!
I have in mind taking Rapid Shot, Two-weapon fighting and quickdraw all by level 3, at that level you can throw 3 per round! ...(at -4 penalty, good luck with that).
Since quickdraw is a requisite for throwing multiple weapons in the same round, I could be a switch hitter ranger as well.
If anyone could make a suggestion of items to circumvent my problems as well as a full feat progression I would really appreciate it!
Will you be wearing heavy armor?
Wouldn't a ranger in heavy armor lose the usage of all his style bonus feats and stuff like evasion?
If he could get his reflex save high enough then that should allow him to safely use chakrams as melee weapons.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger#TOC-Combat-Style-Feat-E x-
Combat Style Feat (Ex)
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The benefits of the ranger's chosen style feats apply only when he wears light, medium, or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style feats when wearing heavy armor. Once a ranger selects a combat style, it cannot be changed.
It says on the pfsrd that the feats only apply while wearing light, medium or no armor.
oh lots of questions....
for the heavy armor question, no, i hate wasting feats on proficiencies.
I won't be using chakrams in melee (that's what quickdraw is for after all)
For melee I will probably use a longsword and a shortsword respectively (or anything else really, don't care much here).
As for the starknife, no thanks, it costs 35gp and deals 1d4 dmg vs 1d8 damage, what am I missing in your recommendation?
We all homebrew campaigns so making ah homebrew item to help me with the ammunition/special abilities/enhancement bonuses shouldn't be a problem.
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Ah, missed that. Focusing on chakrams, and not being able to wear heavy armor, is a bit rough.
Mithral Full Plate only counts as heavy armor for the purposes of proficiency, otherwise it's treated as medium armor in every other respect. That may extend towards your combat style feats.
oh lots of questions....
for the heavy armor question, no, i hate wasting feats on proficiencies.
I won't be using chakrams in melee (that's what quickdraw is for after all)
For melee I will probably use a longsword and a shortsword respectively (or anything else really, don't care much here).
As for the starknife, no thanks, it costs 35gp and deals 1d4 dmg vs 1d8 damage, what am I missing in your recommendation?
We all homebrew campaigns so making ah homebrew item to help me with the ammunition/special abilities/enhancement bonuses shouldn't be a problem.
I believe starknives count as melee weapons AND thrown weapons. However, a chakram takes a -1 on attack rolls as a melee weapon, and the user must roll a reflex save or take 1/2 weapon damage (no STR mod added to the damage). Heavy armor prevents the need for a save, but you still take a -1 on an attack roll.
Xena's chakram was a magical artifact forged by Hephaestus.
But yes, Returning is a must for any thrown weapon.
They had a Rajput weapons expert on Deadliest Warrior that showed just how deadly is the chakram. You can probably Google for it.
Not in front of a book presently hut from what I recall, you can usethe chakram in melee without taking damage if you wear a guantlet and since they don't count as ammo, ithink it requires a move action to draw them without quickdraw.
If you are allowed 3pp I'd suggest taking a look at the Ultimate Options pdf for the gunslinger. I know, strange suggestion for a ranger right? Reason being they have some expanded rules for using deeds/grit in a campaign that doesn't contain firearms which my GM and I were fairly impressed with and liked. For what you are looking to do, 2 feats +/- (which is kinda steep as a ranger) or a level dip would allow you to manage a pseudo returning ability within the first couple range increments using the thrown weapons group rules detailed therein. The pdf is cheap and would probably help you get what you want out of the character concept long before the amount of gold you require to make it work becomes available.
People keep suggesting me starknives but I don't like them, like I said, their damage is 1d4 vs 1d8, the range is 20ft vs 30 ft, cost is 35! vs 1gp! and chakrams weight like 1 pound each so I could carry 20 with me and after the combat go around looking for the ones I threw (since they are not ammunition and thus do not break).
I will not use chakrams in melee, I repeat, I will not use charkrams in melee, I could either take a 5 foot step or use quickdraw to solve the chakram dilema, I am perfectly fine with it, What I really do need help is overcoming the drawbacks of using thrown weapons, mainly the magical enhancement bonus and damage reduction.
Clustered Shots seems like a great choice for this type of build, thanks to whoever suggested it!
Maybe I could talk with my future GM and beg to allow me to use an amulet of mighty fist, but that only works with thrown weapons, I'm sure that could help me quite a lot!
Another question, say I have two-weapon fighting and I do NOT have quickdraw, Can I still throw my 2 weapons? Quickdraw states that it "allows me to use my full attacks with thorwn weapons, but if I have 1 on each hand, it seems silly to require a feat to let me throw those 2, I could argue that it is needed with rapid-shot and with a BaA of 6+ tho...
no need for QD if throwing 2 weapons.
I don't think taking a 5 foot step allows you to draw a weapon with a free action.
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combine with a regular move.
I'm not sure if a 5 foot step is a regular move as it is listed as a no action
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If you're set on using Chakrams, do it.
Take the standard "Switch Hitter" style of feats (Quick Draw, Power Attack, Deadly Aim, etc) and go to town.
Use your throwing rings as the enemies close (or you close on them), when they get up close, you yank out your blades and go to town.
For the close-in fighting, I'd suggest a two-handed weapon, but if you really want to go TWF, you can make it work as well. Dex will obviously be your most critical stat, with Str & Con following up closely behind.
Alternatively, swap Str & Dex in priority, suck up the slightly reduced ranged attack bonus, and really utilize the "ignore feat requirements" bit of your combat style to get TWF for "free."
Play a human vanilla ranger, and take the TWF combat style.
1st level: Power Attack (or Pirahana Strike if you're going for a finesse/agile weapons build) & Quickdraw.
2nd level: Two Weapon Fighting.
This will allow you to contribute significantly from low levels, and you can build on your success as you level. Paired shortswords are a good choice for your melee weapons (although any matching light martial weapon will do well...Gladii or Boarding Axes allow a bit of flexibility with their multiple damage types for example), and you're set.
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I don't think taking a 5 foot step allows you to draw a weapon with a free action.
If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combine with a regular move.
I'm not sure if a 5 foot step is a regular move as it is listed as a no action
It's a free action with Quick-Draw.
A five-foot step is also a free action, and there is certainly nothing stopping a character from stepping back and using Quick-Draw to free action draw several chakrams for a full attack.
The concept that I had in mind was a traveling performer ( a juggler).
I know that bows are superior to thrown weapons in the ranged department, but I wanted to try something different AND not suck at it so much, the only advantage thrown weapons seem to have over bows is that they allow you to apply the str bonus without wasting gold on the composite cost (which in comparison seems rather cheap compared to the cost of carrying 4 returning throwing weapons or so).
And the image of a character throwing a flurry of chakrams seems rather interesting to me.
I was thinking of the swtich hitter approach as well, since I am required to take two-weapon fighting for my "chakram flurry" might as well go for a two-weapon-fight switch hitter. Most likely will be a switch hitter indeed.
People keep suggesting me starknives but I don't like them, like I said, their damage is 1d4 vs 1d8, the range is 20ft vs 30 ft, cost is 35! vs 1gp! and chakrams weight like 1 pound each so I could carry 20 with me and after the combat go around looking for the ones I threw (since they are not ammunition and thus do not break).
I will not use chakrams in melee, I repeat, I will not use charkrams in melee, I could either take a 5 foot step or use quickdraw to solve the chakram dilema, I am perfectly fine with it, What I really do need help is overcoming the drawbacks of using thrown weapons, mainly the magical enhancement bonus and damage reduction.
Clustered Shots seems like a great choice for this type of build, thanks to whoever suggested it!
Maybe I could talk with my future GM and beg to allow me to use an amulet of mighty fist, but that only works with thrown weapons, I'm sure that could help me quite a lot!
Another question, say I have two-weapon fighting and I do NOT have quickdraw, Can I still throw my 2 weapons? Quickdraw states that it "allows me to use my full attacks with thorwn weapons, but if I have 1 on each hand, it seems silly to require a feat to let me throw those 2, I could argue that it is needed with rapid-shot and with a BaA of 6+ tho...
IRL chakram were carried in multiples just looped over the warrior's off-hand/forearm. So you could easily have multiples ready to throw... though shoehorning that reality into strict mechanistic RAW might be very awkward.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I will not use chakrams in melee, I repeat, I will not use charkrams in melee,
Completely off topic and not helpful, but I got the image of a Xena-look-alike writing on a chalk board "I will not use chakrams in melee" with the chalk held between her teeth because she has no fingers.
The concept that I had in mind was a traveling performer ( a juggler).
I know that bows are superior to thrown weapons in the ranged department, but I wanted to try something different AND not suck at it so much, the only advantage thrown weapons seem to have over bows is that they allow you to apply the str bonus without wasting gold on the composite cost (which in comparison seems rather cheap compared to the cost of carrying 4 returning throwing weapons or so).
And the image of a character throwing a flurry of chakrams seems rather interesting to me.
I was thinking of the swtich hitter approach as well, since I am required to take two-weapon fighting for my "chakram flurry" might as well go for a two-weapon-fight switch hitter. Most likely will be a switch hitter indeed.
I love the concept of, and have heard nothing but things about, the Ranger as a switch hitter, but mainly just wanted to wish you luck and say I think your take on it sounds really fun.
Ask if you can use the Bounding Hammer feat with chakrams instead.
Also, just gauntlets would be enough to protect you from using in melee. IIRC