Whakapapa's page

I updated the build now with your suggestions :) I also found out that I didn't account for my monk gaining 2 sizes when in tiger form, so increased damage as well.

Monk (qinggong, monk of the four winds, nimble guardian) Catfolk (+2 dex, +2 cha, -2 wis, Cat’s Claws) (At lvl 9; +4 size to str, -2 dex, +4 nat armor +pounce+rake, At lvl 9; +6 size to str, -4 dex, +6 nat armor +pounce+rake)

1 – Weapon focus (Claws), Dodge, Flurry of Blows, Elemental Fist, unarmed strike
2 – Deflect Arrows, Defensive Aid, stat increase +1 str
3 – Feral Combat Training (Claws), Fast movement, Maneuver training, Nimble Reflexes
4 – Ki pool (magic), Slow Fall, stat increase +1 str
5 – Dragon Style, Bark Skin, Defensive Mastery
6 – Mobility, stat increase +1 str
7 – Dragon Ferocity, Ki pool (Cold iron/silver), Guardian Feline
8 – Stat increase +1 str
9 – Nimble Striker, Evasion
10 – Medusa’s Wrath, Ki pool (lawful), stat increase +1 str
11 – Claw Pounce, Whirlwind Attack
12 – Slow Time, stat increase +1 str
13 – Wind Stance, Diamond soul
14 – Improved Critical (unarmed), stat increase +1 str
15 – Blind-fight, Blood crow Strike
16 – Ki pool (adamantine), stat increase +1 str
17 – Moonlight Stalker, Aspect Master (Aspect of the Ki-Rin), Strangling Hair
18 – Deflect Arrows, stat increase +1 str
19 – Extra Ki/Punishing Kick, Empty body
20 – Immortality, stat increase +1 str

10+10 (nat armor) +1 dex + 2 wis +2 ac +1 dodge = 26

Lvl 9;
Str: 20 (26 in tiger form)

+16/+16/+11/+11
3d8+12
Rake; +16/+16 2d4+8

Charge attacks: (charge reach; 160 ft.)
+18/+18/+13/+13
3d8+12, +2d6+wis (Elemental fist acid)
+ Rake +18/+18 2d4+8

rorek55;

Yeah, I had originally considered MoMS, but I think its too expensive to lose flurry of blows

Hm, you guys are right. I should remove the two styles and take dragon style instead. Feral combat training is also the way to go!

Thanks a bunch :)

Hey guys,

I made this monk build, not completely done yet. The purpose was to create a frightening shapeshifting tiger monk that makes a scary amount of damage. I need some help in finetuning it into even more of a killing machine.

For this build we run with a change to stat increases (every 2nd level instead of every 4th) and we use a 19 stat point system. I'm pretty sure he will agree to removing the +2 cha and -2 wis from the catfolk race if I ask politely, and accept a minus to some more social skills.

Monk (qinggong, monk of the four winds, nimble guardian) Catfolk (+2 dex, +2 cha, -2 wis)

1 – Panther Style, Combat Reflexes, Flurry of Blows, Elemental Fist, unarmed strike
2 – Deflect Arrows, Defensive Aid, stat increase +1 str
3 – Power Attack, Fast movement, Maneuver training, Nimble Reflexes
4 – Ki pool (magic), Slow Fall, stat increase +1 str
5 – Shaitan Style, Bark Skin, Defensive Mastery
6 – Mobility, stat increase +1 str
7 – Combat Style Mastery, Ki pool (Cold iron/silver), Guardian Feline
8 – Stat increase +1 str
9 – Shaitan Skin, Evasion
10 – Medusa’s Wrath, Ki pool (lawful), stat increase +1 str
11 – Panther Claw, Whirlwind Attack
12 – Slow Time, stat increase +1 str
13 – Wind Stance, Diamond soul
14 – Improved Critical (unarmed), stat increase +1 str
15 – Blind-fight, Blood crow Strike
16 – Ki pool (adamantine), stat increase +1 str
17 – Moonlight Stalker, Aspect Master (Aspect of the Ki-Rin), Strangling Hair
18 – Deflect Arrows, stat increase +1 str
19 – Extra Ki/Punishing Kick, Empty body
20 – Immortality, stat increase +1 str

Lvl 9 damage (no items);
Str: 20 (26 in dire tiger form)

+15/+15/+10/+10
1d10+8
Elemental fist, acid (2d6+wis)

Charge attacks: (charge reach; 160 ft.)
+17/+17/+12/+12
1d10+8, +2d6+wis (Elemental fist acid)
+ Rake +17/+17 2d4+8

Similar build as human monk instead;
Lvl 9:
Str: 22

+13/+13/+8/+8
1d10+6
Elemental fist, acid (2d6+wis)

Charge attacks: (charge reach; 120 ft.)
+15, 1d10+6 +2d6+wis (Elemental fist acid)

Comments? Ideas?

I've always interpreted that distinction in clerics as a show of their innerselves. Those able to channel positive energy are generally good, while those who channel negative energies are generally evil.
Even neutral characters tend to lean towards one or the other scale. Or if lying in the smack middle of it, they choose their channel ability based on other characteristics.

This is of course a very basic explanation of it, but the idea is the energy clerics channel is a very "real" manifistation of who they are.

Spells on the other hand are basically tools they need granted by their deities. Therefore a good aligned cleric can cast spells with negative energy since it does not conflict with her beliefs. If their deity thinks its inappropriate to grant such spells and pays enough attention to the cleric, the GM can deny the cleric her chosen spells.

Whakapapa wrote:

I tested the Summoner in a a 2v1 match where we all made a lvl 20 character, we had the same amount of gold to buy magic items for, the same amount of points for stats and same time for buffing.

I won the 2v1. Me as summoner againt 2 others... gg, overpowered trash class ;)

That does not prove anything. A wizard or sorcerer who gets the jump on 3 other classes equal to his level can also take them out.

You could have gotten rules wrong. The other players might not be as good as you, and so on.

You need to provide more info. :)

It was a long time ago, I just mentioned it based on my memory of the encounter. For the record one of the opponents are not a good power game, but pretty decent tactical player, the other opponent is as good as me or even better at powergaming/optimizing. One of them was a ranger, the other a cleric.

It is, obviously, possible to counter a summoner if try, but you tend to end up as a one-trick pony. They knew I was making a summoner, I didn't know what they built, but none of us tried to counter each other as that wouldn't prove anything.

What I remember from the fight is that yes, you can counter them, but if you were to play one in a normal game, you have SO much flexibility and power, that you are just going to run unchecked unless the DM designs encounters specifically to challenge the summoner. We all concluded (not just from that fight mind you) that if the summoner class was ever to be used, its as an NPC only class.

Personally I've "revamped" the paladin code to instead of some weird universal moral codex that it instead follows their deity's portfolio. They are, afterall, their god's champions and should be a living, breathing incarnation of their god. This means if their god forbids lying, the paladin obviously can't lie, if the god believes in the saving innocents at the risk of losing even more innocents, the paladin does so as well, if the god believes in the greater good and can justify slaying a village to prevent a sickness from spreading, the paladin believes that as well and won't fall from destroying an entire village.

I think its a mistake to put every paladin on the same universal moral code as they don't all worship the same deity, and the deities have different moral values themselves, so acting according to a universal code might put the paladin in conflict with his own god, which is no good either.

While I prefer the wizards (simply due to the flavor of them), I find their versatility in able to know more spells than the sorcerer a gimmick at best. Its rare that you need those spells you don't normally pick up, and in those scenarios, you usually have a different workaround than an arcane spell. Adding on to that the human sorcerer class level - 1 extra spell known per level (1 spell lower than the highest you can cast) - gives a tonne of flexibility to the sorcerer and in practice makes them almost as versatile, or even more so, than a wizard since they don't need to prepare those special spells ahead of time.

Finally once you rack up enough gold, you can try and purchase some scrolls, wands and staffs that have those unique/rare spells and most people will never even know you're not a wizard - they might actually prefer you not to be a wizard since you are now way more flexible than most spell casters (and better looking/smelling).

The linked item above costs 1,600gp, and requires no skill to use.

And it provides reincarnation, not Raise Dead :) There is a difference between those two spells.

As for the topic at hand, I don't like the option of having someone readily resurrect someone. I like that bringing someone back from the dead is difficult and requires effort so the players are more concerned with dying rather than just irritated at having to pay up 5.000+ gold. So I would either have the spell require special ingredients that they need to collect (have the dead player act as the cleric traveling with maybe or some other clerk) or maybe it requires a ritual of some kind involving different things.

And the dead player might need to do some stuff as well on the 'other side' before it can work.

I tested the Summoner in a a 2v1 match where we all made a lvl 20 character, we had the same amount of gold to buy magic items for, the same amount of points for stats and same time for buffing.

I won the 2v1. Me as summoner againt 2 others... gg, overpowered trash class ;)

I dont see how an UNNAMED bonus to damage for a swift action is not worth a feat? It works incredibly well on bard archers/archers in general, its also worth it on melee arcane characters.

You can still make overpowered characters easily (summoner comes to mind), but with a little bit of houseruling Pathfinder is really very balanced.

For the damage reduction, consider picking up Clustered Shots once you get multiple ranged attacks. It sorta limits the annoyance of damage reduction.

For item suggestions, I think you are screwed until returning weapons if you insist on chakrams. If you play with the same gm and he is open-minded, I could think of some cool flavor with adding a thin rope to your weapons for easy retrieval of them. Chuck out 3-4 chakrams, pull all 3-4 ropes back to you as a move action/standard/full round, and chuck next round as well.

STR 14/5
Dex 16/10 (18 ADJ)
Con 14/5
INT 12/2
WIS 12/2
Cha 7/-4

1st level improved initiative & Weapon Finesse
2 Rogue Talent Weapon Focus Short Swords
3 Two weapon fighting
4 Rogue talent Resiliency
5 Iron Will
6 Rogue Talent Ninja Trick (Pressure points)
7 Toughness
8 Rogue Talent Combat trick (improved two weapon fighting)
9 Lunge
10 Rogue Talent Oppurtunist
11 Improved Critical (short Swords)
12 Rogue Talent Crippling strike

I like your build, but if I may make a suggestion? Strongly consider picking up Shatter Defense (it makes any shaken, panicked, frightened flat-footed when you hit them). Then pick up dazzling display which gives you a 30 ft. radius intimidate ability to shake them. Its useful for you and your group even before shatter defense as enemies get -2 on most d20 checks.

Pick up Swashbuckler archtype for extra combat trick (from lvl 5 start taking the human racial rogue favored class instead of skill/hit points):

1st level improved initiative & Weapon Finesse
2 Rogue Talent Weapon Focus Short Swords
3 Two weapon fighting
4 Rogue talent Combat trick (dazzling display)
5 Iron Will/Skill focus (intimidate)
6 Rogue Talent Ninja Trick (Pressure points)
7 Toughness/Intimidating Prowess
8 Rogue Talent Combat trick (improved two weapon fighting)
9 Lunge
10 Rogue Talent feat Shatter Defense, bonus talent Crippling Strike
11 Improved Critical (short Swords)
12 Rogue Talent Defensive Roll

Unfortunately, neither Scout + Cleave nor Stand Still + Reach work.

Cleave requires a standard action to use, meaning that "Scout's Charge" can't be combined with it. Meanwhile, the "Skirmisher" ability specifies that it only applies to the first attack in a round. So neither one is going to let you Sneak Attack/Cleave multiple opponents.

Stand Still only applies to enemies "moving through your adjacent squares," not "threatened squares." So it doesn't do anything with a reach weapon. Even if it did, Lunge wouldn't work since it only applies until the end of your turn. It is very rare that an opponent will provoke an attack of opportunity by moving on your turn.

I didn't intend on using cleave with charge as I already knew those didnt work :)

But you are absolutely right that RAW scouts skirmishing ability does not work with cleave which makes me very sad :( My group and dm are kinda lenient with such rules and I could probably get it working. But with most other groups, that combo won't work. But cleave with imp. invis will work however, which still makes it a decent pickup for a two-handed rogue.

And you are also right about stand still, again, makes me sad. That feat is not useful at all to my skirmisher rogue then.

You are very welcome, there is certainly a lot of flavor and power in the good old classic twf rogue :) I just really enjoy the thought of a skirmishing constant moving rogue that does sneak attack with cleaves and whirlwind attacks.
I'm fairly certain you can wait declaring an archtype until you get the first ability of it. In the build I suggested, I also made use of the Swashbuckler archtype (which I didn't make very clear) as it allows me 2 combat tricks instead of just one.

As for your question, I've never really considered uncanny dodge that great of an ability. Sure its certainly nice not being able to get flanked or lose dex against invisible attackers, but part of playing a rogue is to rarely (never) get caught in bad positions. Also taking lunge and stand still will many times let you stop an enemy from ever getting to a good flanking position.
Against invisible opponents, you will usually have 3+ people with you where some are bound to have something to help. So its only early level you will find use for the 'not able to get caught flatfooted or lose dex' uncanny dodge. That is my experience at least.

PFS is Pathfinder Society. Which is an Organized Play organization, meaning you can go anywhere in the world where it's being done and use the same character.

It also means you may be playing with entirely different people and characters every time you play.

I see, then it would have been a silly question if I had known that :) Sounds pretty cool though.

With that in mind, I would suggest the OP to go for a rogue build that is less reliable on others helping him get sneak attacks.

Whakapapa wrote:

What is your party setup?

This is for PFS, so that question is kind of a silly one.

I don't really know what PFS is other than some adventure path, so its not silly question for me.

What is your party setup? A rogue is very dependent on someone flanking with him, making people flatfooted or being able to turn invisible. If you have a reliable way of getting someone to help you get sneak attacks, I'd definately go with Mergy's build.

If you are uncertain whether or not you can get reliable sneak attacks, this rogue build is a good alternative (one of my fav rogue builds actually :)):

1 (1 barbarian) feat (human): Power Attack, feat: Furious Focus
2 (1 rogue)
3 (2 rogue) feat: Dodge, talent (Weapon training: Bardiche)
4 (3 rogue) (daring: +1 acrobatics and +1 save vs fear every 3 levels) (+1 str)
5 (4 rogue) feat: Mobility, talent (Combat: Spring Attack), Scout's Charge (opponents can be sneak attacked as if flat footed after a charge)
6 (5 rogue)
7 (6 rogue) feat: Combat Reflexes, talent (Slow Reactions), human bonus talent (Follow Clues/something else/just go for hp/skills every level)
8 (7 rogue) (+1 str)
9 (8 rogue) feat: Lunge, talent (Combat: Cleave), (Skirmisher: moving more than 10 feet in a round, targets can be sneak attacked as if flat-footed)
10 (9 rogue)
11 (10 rogue) feat: Stand still, talent (Entanglement of Blades)
12 (11 rogue) (+1 str)
13 (12 rogue) feat: Combat Expertise, talent (Feat: Whirlwind Attack), Bonus talent (Opportunist)

Stat prioritation should be: str > dex (up to 14-16) > con (try to get at least 12-14) > int > wis > cha

The advantage of this build is you are not reliable on your group to provide sneak attack options as long as you can charge someone (at lvl 5) or move 10+ feat (at lvl 9). Your chance of hitting is much better than a TWF rogue, but the potential single target damage is lower. However, you get bigger reach which means safer melee, you can be mobile and do quite a bit of movement control as you get higher level: move 10 feat, cleave sneak attack people, then proceed to AoO them to stand still.
If you can get improved invisible, he is really amazing at stopping people in their tracks. Alternatively, you may want to move some feats around and get combat expertise + whirlwind attack much earlier for higher multi-target damage (15 ft. reach with sneak attack on all targets? yes please! Get enlarged for 20 ft. reach instead, even better ;))

If you want a truly broken character, look no further than the summoner. I find it hard to make a summoner that won't steamroll most encounters.

Whakapapa wrote:

Why disarm when you can trip?

There are lots of potential reasons, actually.

1. A "take them alive" situation.
2. Standard action disarm, move action pick up their weapon. If they don't have a backup (or their backup sucks), then you've effectively removed them from the fight. I've done this before. Saved a party member's life.
3. Sometimes they have some kind of uber-weapon that really needs to not be in their hands (or might even be better in your own hands).

When the BBEG with a +1 Flaming Shocking Falcata and full BAB manages to get too close to the 16 AC wizard, a disarm could save his life while a trip will be next to meaningless.

I agree, those are good scenarios to use disarm, but my point was more that he takes 3 combat maneuver feats right away, which I think is 1 too many. And since I find trip the better of them all most of the time, I would strongly consider which of the next to maneuvers are most useful, and flavorful. Here I would definately take improved disarm.

And if he wants to take Bull Rush, he really should go with the shield bash since you can use your shield to make AoO with and get even more Bull Rushes thrown into the fight if you want to. Its extremely effective that way.

I think you spread yourself too much on what you want to do in your turn. Why disarm when you can trip? Or why spend a turn bull-rushing when you could be disarming? Why use cleave when your goal is not to do damage, but to control the enemy's movement? I would avoid cleave since I find that feat only useful for Two-handed scirmishers.

Also remove either disarm or bull rush if you dont want to go the twf route and get free bull rush attacks each round (I think you really miss out by not going this way, but its ofc not required at all :), remember you just need the first twf feat, and maybe the 2nd if you can spare the dex for it, not all 3, your +atk modifier wont suffer if you pick up shield master feat)

You should think hard on why you don't want Combat Reflexes + Stand Still + Lunge. Those are 3 amazing feats for what you want your character to do. Lightning Reflexes, Shield Focus and Cleave is not worth it. Shield focus is maybe fine later.

I wouldn't make a flail + shield fighter as a paladin. Paladins are very limited in what they can do with their feats, and with only 15 points for character buy you will be too limited as a paladin.

I think you should really figure out what you want to do as a flail + shield fighter. Personally I see them as "tanks" in that they make sure the enemy cant get past them unless its over your dead body. So I would definately consider focusing exclusively on the controlling part.

The advantage of going a fighter is that you get a tonne of feats that can make you VERY versatile. So I would, if I were you, consider going down the two-weapon-fighter route simply because you get an awesome amount of feats for controlling with a shield and flail then, you dont need to max out the two weapon route, 1 extra attack is enough imo since you can make a free bull rush with the right feats, which I personally think is downright amazing flavorwise and powerwise :)

Str: 14 (16 from human)
Dex: 15
Con: 12
Wis: 10
Int: 14
Cha: 7

The stats you get from level I'd put maybe the first point into dex for more ac, trip and extra AoO, then the rest into str for overall better melee performance. You could move the stats around some more ofc to get 16 in dex from the start and maybe 15 (17) in str if you dont care much for wis and the extra skill point you get from 14 in int. As for hp, you just use the option for extra hp from favored class each level. The point of this tank is to try and not get hit by high ac and tripped enemies.

Feat progression:

1 - Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
2 - Fury's Fall
3 - Combat Reflexes
4 - Stand Still
5 - Improved Shield Bash
6 - Lunge
7 - Greater Trip
8 - Two-Weapon Fighting
9 - Shield Slam

From now on, anyone of the following feats all add much flavor and awesomeness to your character:

Weapon Focus/Shield Focus/Improved Bull Rush/Greater Bull Rush/Missile Shield/Ray Shield/Weapon Specialization/Greater Weapon Focus/Greater Weapon Specialization/Shield Master/Greater Shield Focus/Improved Initiative/Dodge

Consider also, depending on which stat modifying items you get, the Intimidation route; Dazzling Display and Intimidating Prowess. Both are extremely good for a tanker since the enemy gets -2 on all d20 checks, which essentially means +2 ac for you and your allies.

Alternatively as your combo is essentially done at lvl 9-11 depending on how deep you want to take it, you could pick up some archery feats for a more versatile fighter if you start to meet enemies you can't trip or bull rush - flying dragons, ghosts, etc...

Remember, I made the stats this way since your goal is not to be the highest damage dealer in your group, but a controller tank. The high dex helps you get into position and it helps on your trip attacks. If you, as I write at the end, decide to pick up a few archery feats, your high dex helps you there as well. All in all, you're a versatile shield+flail fighter that can either specialize in what you do even more or pick up other feats. Higher strength would give you slightly more damage, chance of bull rushing and better for intimidating, but it won't make you a better tank or controller.

Well, I recently played around with a fighter/sorcerer/dragon disciple/eldritch knight build with a friend.. I think that it has potential to be one of the best for combat maneuvers and two-handed fighting. The reason being able to reach incredible high amounts of strength (even without buffs), 3/4 BAB and a lot of utility through spells.

Without buffs you can reach 42 strength at lvl 20, with buffs you can get 50 str (giant form), 52 (dragon form) and top that off with 2 extra if you dont mind raging (from the rage spell). I kinda like the idea of a serious buff sorcerer running around buffing/debuffing and/or teleporting around the battlefield to pick off other squishy targets with his massive strength bonus and thus high damage potential. With Quicken Spell you can get a few key buffs off without losing full attack or mobility.

I still need to make a few low level sample builds to see how useful he is there, but he definately peaks at high levels and is likely kinda weak in early levels.