Not trying to talk you out of anything but Witch/Rogue, Witch/Ranger, and Witch/Monk can be really fun concepts.
Jus' sharing.
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Concepts are great, but you can achieve what you want from a concept without multiclassing with Pathfinder's awesome archetype system. Hexcrafter is an example of a witchy wizard.
I did some acting in my teenage years, and our director had a saying: "Theatre is fun, but it's not fun to suck." I think that this phrase can apply to a ton of things, and Pathfinder is one of them.
Pathfinder is fun, but it's not fun to suck.
I did some acting in my teenage years, and our director had a saying: "Theatre is fun, but it's not fun to suck."
OK, this is pretty spooky. I've never heard that phrase before tonight (and I don't think I know Mergy). But, earlier tonight, I was running a focus group (my Day Job is "Profession: market researcher" ;-) ), and one of the respondents in my focus group said, "I used to be in theater, and my director used to say, 'Make it not suck.'"
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Some like concepts rather than optimization. :)I want to have a wizzard/witch! ... so, yeahIs there any way I can make you reconsider? :(
And, sometimes, even multiclassing can include some optimization....
Fighter 10, Cleric 1, Ranger 1.Not perfectly optimized, but being able to move 40' in one action, and having Human as Favored Enemy, can be nasty for an archer...
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I don't think you should ever view it as having to pick the concept or the optimization. You can have your concept and also optimize it to be effective inside its concept.
If the reason for the wizard/witch combo is because you want a witchy wizard, or wizardy witch, then find aspects of that in archetypes or different classes and use it. Hexcraft magus was the example I gave which takes the wizard's spellbook and the witch's hexes. It could be as simple as just taking Cosmopolitan and a trait to pick up more knowledge skills to fit a concept of a very studious witch.
My Question:What do you want out of your Witch/Wizard?
My opinion:I am not trying to convince you to abandon concept based character generation. I am just trying to show you that your concept may be better portrayed by a different class/class combination. You do not gain much from that combination. You split your spellcasting levels up and don't gain that many useful spells out of it.
I agree with Mergy with the fact that a hexcraft magus might be a better option for the same feel. You get the wizard spellbook, hexes, and you are actually good in melee (comes in handy when the range of your hexes is only 30ft).
My director would say the day before a performance, "Everyone, when you come here tomorrow, leave your suck at home!"
I suspect that, somewhere, there was an ur-director who said something about "don't suck", and the basic idea has promulgated throughout the theater community, in different iterations. :-D
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I look into this thread and find a player asking how the rules for multi-classing work. What I see is a mixed response of judging his/her character choice. Really guys?!? Why do we always have to "hate" on a player's choice of a character. Is optimization such an integral part of your game that anyone who doesn't maximize it is BadWrongFun? I have a barbarian/druid/Cleric of Goreh that is not optimized in the traditional way. A single-classed PC will out do him with their specialty, but he has some nice tricks despite never having the highest DPR, HP, or max out his caster levels/spell access. This player is no different. Give him/her the benefit of the doubt that s/he can build a character that is both interesting AND competent.
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I wouldn't say they are offensive, but at least one poster seemed to be trying to dissuade the player from their multi-classed combo using "it's not the most optimized choice" argument that has been presented in the forums time and time again. We get into the same old arguments about optimization (roll-play) vs. story (role-play) that soo many of us are tired of. It is obvious that the OP is new to PFS if not PFRPG in general. I'm just saying, let's not suggest their character choice is somehow wrong. Call my response a preemptive comment knowing where this discussion is inevitably headed. Perhaps it is an over-reaction, but not so much so, IMO.
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I wouldn't say they are offensive, but at least one poster seemed to be trying to dissuade the player from their multi-classed combo using "it's not the most optimized choice" argument that has been presented in the forums time and time again. We get into the same old arguments about optimization (roll-play) vs. story (role-play) that soo many of us are tired of. It is obvious that the OP is new to PFS if not PFRPG in general. I'm just saying, let's not suggest their character choice is somehow wrong. Call my response a preemptive comment knowing where this discussion is inevitably headed. Perhaps it is an over-reaction, but not so much so, IMO.
That would be me. I didn't call the OP an idiot, and I don't think they're being silly. I also don't think they've thought through the pain of leveling two arcane classes simultaneously, and I wanted to bring that up. I gave only a short message to begin with and was shouted down, at which point I mentioned that there is no dividing line that prevents someone with a concept from optimizing within said concept.
So I'm sorry, but I like to prevent people from feeling like the heroes' sidekick, and that's where mixing two arcane classes together typically ends up. Excuse me for overreacting.
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Where did I suggest you called the OP any names at all? I've been involved in the forums for a very long time and read most of what rolls through PFS. Without any exception, to my knowledge, when a player posts a question about a class-combo or other build choice, the thread inevitably devolves into questions regarding the choices being "good" vs. "bad" and that always becomes the "role vs. roll" arguments. All I am saying is that the OP did not ask for our opinion on their character choice, just how multi-classing worked. Perhaps *you* think my post was an over-reaction, but I just don't want to see an innocent question leading to another flame-war that could influence the OP's decision to continue playing. We have to admit there is a sizable group that suggest you have to sacrifice "role" for "roll" or vice versa.
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I want to have a wizzard/witch! ... so, yeahKeeping your spells straight is going to be a pain the neck....
Maulium how much of a newbie are you? Are you a newbie to role-playing games in general? To D&D 3.5? Or just to Pathfinder?
In my experience a wizard or a witch in itself can be a bit challenging for a first time player. With either choice there is a lot to keep track of and with a Witch/Wizard it would be even more complicated. If you are up for this challenge then go for it.
One thing to realize is your first level you are either going to start out as a wizard or a witch, so what you might want to do is determine that first. After you make second level you can then see if you still want to multi-class into the other.
But if you want to just be an arcane spell-caster you might want to try out sorcerer your first time around. There is not as much to keep track of. Either way have fun!
Nathan Meyers
NYC Player/GM
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Pitiful mortals, bound to your class prisons. Do not allow your self to be defined by your class.
Only through transcending such definitions have I become The Most Powerful Mage in All Absalom!
(Do not be fooled by pretenders such as Thorne)
here and I was told that you had "become The Most Powerful Mage in All Absalom!" when you took the vow against bathing!
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Is optimization such an integral part of your game that anyone who doesn't maximize it is BadWrongFun?To a lot of gamist players, the answer is yes. And if you try to tell them otherwise, they'll yell out "Stormwind Fallacy" until they're blue in the face.
You know, I was holding out hope that this thread might avoid devolving into that whole argument, then in you come with "Look how bad some people are!" Could we please just drop the topic?
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Is optimization such an integral part of your game that anyone who doesn't maximize it is BadWrongFun?To a lot of gamist players, the answer is yes. And if you try to tell them otherwise, they'll yell out "Stormwind Fallacy" until they're blue in the face.
Let me tell you all a short story of a Halfling named Gaulm. Gaulm thought long and hard and decided after 2 levels of Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger) that he'd take 2 levels in Bard. Gaulm fought hard and never gained any ground whenever it came to anything but Jumping or Tumbling. His frustration grew so infuriating that Gaulm just gave up and never showed again. The funny thing is that Gaulm had a brother named Bawls who thought 4 levels of Monk and 2 levels of Druid (Packmaster) would also be a wise career choice. Sadly Bawls started to hate his life and jumped into a volcano not long after realizing he pretty much sucked at EVERYTHING he did.
So to sum things up...there is a reason some of us chime in when people have bad character concept ideas. We understand that flavor happens, but the truth is if you find yourself behind the curve the game does lose its excitement and fun. Nobody likes to be a burden on another person.
We are just trying to help a new player learn some options and see what works and flows together.
OP, apparently the answer is: You can't if you don't want to be judged.
My director would say the day before a performance, "Everyone, when you come here tomorrow, leave your suck at home!"
Heh, with all these anecdotes about how frequent "anti-sucking" comments are in the theater, I guess I just can't help but conclude that the theater has more than its share of "suck" to deal with.
here and I was going to say that I had been looking at a Alchemist/Wizard/Witch and wondering if it would be a fun character build.
And wondering about additional classes that are INT based....
My goal in life is to role play "Senor El Kick-asso!!"
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My director would say the day before a performance, "Everyone, when you come here tomorrow, leave your suck at home!"Heh, with all these anecdotes about how frequent "anti-sucking" comments are in the theater, I guess I just can't help but conclude that the theater has more than its share of "suck" to deal with.
Have you ever seen a high school play?
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As far as the "roll-play vs role-play" and "badwrongfun" stuff is concerned, here's what I've seen (and too frequently participated in) on the boards.
Someone will ask for advice. Advice will be given. The advice will be worded in such a way that certain hyper-reactive people will interpret it as judgmental or an accusation of "badwrongfun". That hyper-reactive person will leap in as the avatar of "goodrightfun" and lay about with their +5 Mighty Pen of Smackdown to demonstrate how amazingly big-hearted and open-minded they are. Then the person giving advice will respond with "What the hell? I was only responding you jackass!" And then the race is on!
Welcome to the interwebz.
As far as the OP is concerned, if you want to play a witch/wizard, then knock yourself out. However, be aware that there are probably ways to fulfill your character concept without choosing that specific approach, and there are some legitimate warnings that you should heed before deciding to build that particular character.
Have you ever seen a high school play?My director would say the day before a performance, "Everyone, when you come here tomorrow, leave your suck at home!"Heh, with all these anecdotes about how frequent "anti-sucking" comments are in the theater, I guess I just can't help but conclude that the theater has more than its share of "suck" to deal with.
Heh. I played "Jonathon" in my high school senior version of "Arsenic and Old Lace." I was a member of a local theater troupe for almost a decade. I've worked on numerous plays, from high school to fully commercial endeavors.
And I will say that it was a load of amazing fun. And at least in my recollection, there wasn't a whole lot of "suck" involved.
a hexcraft magus might be a better option for the same feel. You get the wizard spellbook, hexes, and you are actually good in melee (comes in handy when the range of your hexes is only 30ft).
Magi (Maguses.... not sure if Magus counts as a loan word yet or not) are pretty much just better if you want any sort of mixed arcane concept. Possibly too much better.
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Magi (Maguses.... not sure if Magus counts as a loan word yet or not) are pretty much just better if you want any sort of mixed arcane concept. Possibly too much better.
I'm doing pretty well for myself as a Fighter/Wizard, complete with 10% ASF and everything. Even had somebody ask about my stats so he could model his own PC after me. :D