Staying in Rage while fatigued

[DSRMT]

Can a Barbarian stay in a Rage when they become fatigued? ie. from a spell or other effect

[mageem87]

the rage i do believe ends when you become fatigued.

[The Elusive Jackalope]

A barbarian does not automatically drop out of rage if she becomes fatigued, only if she falls unconcious. She may merely not begin a rage if she is fatigued or exhausted.

[Mergy]

It's the little things that people just decide off the cuff about rules that are a huge issue with this game. If it's not in the rules, don't just decide that it's in the rules. Or at least be honest with yourself that you have house-ruled it.

[DSRMT]

Mergy wrote:

It's the little things that people just decide off the cuff about rules that are a huge issue with this game. If it's not in the rules, don't just decide that it's in the rules. Or at least be honest with yourself that you have house-ruled it.

I am assuming that was directed towards me. If I'm mistaken, I appologize.

I am not asking because I am assuming it's in the rules, I am asking because I had thought it had been discussed before, and someone in my group had brought it up. I just wanted it clarified :)

[Mergy]

DSRMT wrote:

Mergy wrote:

It's the little things that people just decide off the cuff about rules that are a huge issue with this game. If it's not in the rules, don't just decide that it's in the rules. Or at least be honest with yourself that you have house-ruled it.

I am assuming that was directed towards me. If I'm mistaken, I appologize.

I am not asking because I am assuming it's in the rules, I am asking because I had thought it had been discussed before, and someone in my group had brought it up. I just wanted it clarified :)

It was not directed towards you, it was towards mageem87, who I should have quoted. I apologize as I had no intention of upsetting you.

I also shouldn't have been so hostile towards mageem87, but this is how serious rules problems start. Someone makes something up based on a feeling, and at some point with enough other people reading it, it becomes "common knowledge". The fact that there's no basis for it in the rules at that point becomes irrelevant.

[The Elusive Jackalope]

I don't think that was directed at you; it is a common misconception that barbarians drop out of rage if they become fatigued, often to the dismay of avid barbarian fans. Considering the array of things that cause the fatigued and exhuasted conditions, many times without a saving throw or attack roll involved, many a GM has penalized a barbarian over it needlessly.

Edit: Mergy, you ninja, you.

[mageem87]

that is my mistake and i should have looked it up first. my apologies.

[Stynkk]

mageem87 wrote:

that is my mistake and i should have looked it up first. my apologies.

Happens to all of us, don't take it too hard.

[Mergy]

mageem87 wrote:

that is my mistake and i should have looked it up first. my apologies.

Nah, I was a dick about it too. Apologies all around.

[DSRMT]

Well then I'm sorry for overreacting, and I'm glad to have that cleared up :-)

[Glutton]

I believe Calm Emotions is one of the few things that ends rage.

edit: appears to just suppress it now for the duration.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Glutton wrote:

I believe Calm Emotions is one of the few things that ends rage.

edit: appears to just suppress it now for the duration.

Thread necromancy, I know, but I'm about to start Way of the Wicked with a barbarian, so I feel obligated to point out that Calm Emotions has 'Will negates' for the effects of a successful saving throw which should, I believe, trump the use of the word 'automatically' in the spell description concerning the effects of the spell on rage.

I and others have FAQ'd and FAQ'd this one but, to my knowledge, have never gotten a definitive Paizo answer. I think one time we actually got 'No response necessary' which was actually worse than not getting any response at all.

So, in the absence of a final ruling, it's hard to argue against the 'Will negates' in the save description of Calm Emotions. I can only hope that future printings or rule revisions will either a) remove the word 'automatically' from the spell description or add the text 'A barbarian failing his Will save automatically has his rage suppressed for the duration of the spell'.

I think a bigger question is, to me, what happens when a spell or effect causes a barbarian to become fatigued while raging. The rules seem pretty clear that it doesn't bring him out of rage, he just can't start a new rage if he does stop raging (until he has removed the fatigued condition). But what condition is a barbarian in when he is already fatigued and then stops raging? By RAW I think I know the answer and, quite frankly, it's pretty discouraging. I'm pretty sure the barbarian ends up being exhausted.

Situation: A level 15 barbarian, raging, is attacked by a 1st level inquisitor. The inquisitor casts Litany of Weakness on the barbarian, automatically giving him the fatigued condition, no save. The barbarian continues raging and, of course, completely destroys the inquisitor, at which point the barbarian stops raging. The fatigue caused by him ending his rage pushes the fatigue from Litany of Weakness into the exhausted condition. Hopefully the poor guy has two potions of lesser restoration on him or that 1st level inquisitor just ruined his day with a swift action, no save.

[StreamOfTheSky]

There shouldn't need to be an errata. Negates means NEGATES. It means the stuff down below in the spell description does not happen to you. They have a different term for when some of the bad stuff down below still affects you on a save. It's called "partial."

I realize there are some sociopathic a$%%#%&s who think a low level spell auto-shanks the barbarian. You must realize these same people have a million other undeclared houserules (undeclared because, "it's the RAW, guys!") to unfairly shank anyone and the best way to deal with them is to never play in a game with them and/or leave such game once you discover their true form. Shun them and silently weep while thinking about how many poor unsuspecting newbs will get permanently turned off from the hobby by having such a person as their first DM.

[Darkflame]

there is ways you can start a rage when fatigued but you become exhaused when you end it!

I think if you get fatgued while raging you might become exhausted when exiting your rage but im not certain.
although I would rule he would actualy only be exhausted for twice the rounds he raged and then become fatigued again!

there are no rules that say you drop out of rage when you become fatgued.

[Claxon]

I would think that the easiest way to avoid this is since Litany of Weakness lasts for for only one round you rage for 2 rounds. Litany of Weakness ends and you're not fatigued from it. Then you end your rage and are fatigued for 4 rounds.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Claxon wrote:

I would think that the easiest way to avoid this is since Litany of Weakness lasts for for only one round you rage for 2 rounds. Litany of Weakness ends and you're not fatigued from it. Then you end your rage and are fatigued for 4 rounds.

Claxon, you've hit the answer (to the Litany of Weakness) on the head and I'm feeling pretty dumb for not thinking of that myself. Thanks!

[Lincoln Hills]

As I understand it, you don't drop out of a rage just because you become fatigued (although the fatigue penalties and rage bonuses would both be applied). However, when your rage ends, the usual condition-stacking rule at the end of the rules on the Fatigued condition mean that you would become exhausted for the usual refractory period (2x rounds raged) instead of merely fatigued.

The calm emotions question is a separate issue that I'd have to do a little research on...