Add Non-witch Spells to Witch Spell List

[Askanipsion]

Is there a way a Witch can add a non-witch 1st lvl or higher spell to her witch spell list via a feat?

I know there is a Trait that allows you to add a 0 level arcane spell to the Witch list.

Thanks for your assistance!

[Tristan Windseeker]

I'm not aware of a feat to do this. The Pathfinder Savant prestige class gives up one caster level, but lets you add spells from any class's spell list to your own.

[StreamOfTheSky]

There's the feat you mentioned, your Patron, and a nice DM allowing some outside research. That's all I know of. But Witch has UMD as a class skill, so for non-offensive spells at least, you can get by pretty well. For offensive...maybe a staff with the spells you need?

I would not go PF savant. You lose 1 level of casting and 7 levels of hex advancement.

EDIT: Likely not helpful, but one of the Patrons (Endurance?) grants Miracle at level 18. This allows no-cost access to any 8th level or lower cleric spell and spells from other class lists below that. Kinda too late to help much, though.

[Shalafi2412]

I have a 3rd level witch that is in the Serpent AP and was wondering the same thing. However, I think that the balance given in the class is that the character does not get access to every spell. The hexes are really good!

[CunningMongoose]

Core rule book:

Independent Research: A wizard can also research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one. The cost to research a new spell, and the time required, are left up to GM discretion, but it should probably take at least 1 week and cost at least 1,000 gp per level of the spell to be researched. This should also require a number of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) checks.

There is also an entire section in Ultimate magic dealing with this (Designing Spells)

If you only want to copy a spell from another class, it should be easy, and will only demand time and money.

[Selgard]

And the DM's permission for you to take a spell from another class, and learn it.

-S

[Rocky Williams 530]

CunningMongoose wrote:

Core rule book:

Independent Research: A wizard can also research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one. The cost to research a new spell, and the time required, are left up to GM discretion, but it should probably take at least 1 week and cost at least 1,000 gp per level of the spell to be researched. This should also require a number of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) checks.

There is also an entire section in Ultimate magic dealing with this (Designing Spells)

If you only want to copy a spell from another class, it should be easy, and will only demand time and money.

That's for wizards. Doesn't apply to witches, or sorcerers even. It's a limit of that type of caster. Far more limited list, for either more casts per day, or other abilities.

Basically, it's up to your DM to let you add new spells, but it's sort of a game balance thing WHY you can't add spells. If you allowed witches, why not sorcerers. If sorcerers can do it, why ever play a wizard?

[pad300]

Rocky Williams 530 wrote:

CunningMongoose wrote:

Core rule book:

Independent Research: A wizard can also research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one. The cost to research a new spell, and the time required, are left up to GM discretion, but it should probably take at least 1 week and cost at least 1,000 gp per level of the spell to be researched. This should also require a number of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) checks.

There is also an entire section in Ultimate magic dealing with this (Designing Spells)

If you only want to copy a spell from another class, it should be easy, and will only demand time and money.

That's for wizards. Doesn't apply to witches, or sorcerers even. It's a limit of that type of caster. Far more limited list, for either more casts per day, or other abilities.

Basically, it's up to your DM to let you add new spells, but it's sort of a game balance thing WHY you can't add spells. If you allowed witches, why not sorcerers. If sorcerers can do it, why ever play a wizard?

False, note the 2nd para below. Casters besides wizards can research new spells. Note that this doesn't mention the classes outside the core rules. In those cases, the DM should chose an appropriate knowledge skill; I would suggest Arcana, Planes, or Nature, depending on the flavor of the individual witch...

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Research-and-Designing-Spells wrote:

Creating a Spell

Successfully researching a new spell requires time and expensive research. An optional system for researching new spells is outlined below.

The research should cost at least 1,000 gp per spell level (or even more for particularly exotic spells) and require both the Spellcraft skill and a Knowledge skill appropriate to the researcher’s class. Wizards and bards use Knowledge (arcana), sorcerers use a Knowledge skill appropriate to their heritage (usually arcana, nature, or planes), druids and rangers use the Knowledge (nature) skill, and clerics and paladins use Knowledge (religion). The actual research process varies by the type of spell, often involving magical experimentation, the purchase and study of moldy scrolls and grimoires, contact with powerful magical beings or outsiders, and extensive meditation or rituals.

[LazarX]

A witch's spell list is limited by design. The Independent Research feat can breach that in a limited way but it's up to GM adjudication. (No not at all in PFS)

[CunningMongoose]

Rocky Williams 530 wrote:

That's for wizards. Doesn't apply to witches, or sorcerers even. It's a limit of that type of caster. Far more limited list, for either more casts per day, or other abilities.

Good point, but as the witch class did not exist when they wrote the core rulebook, I would draw the line between prepared and spontaneous casters (if a spontaneous caster encouter a new spell, he may do some research to learn it, but must have a spell known slot free to do so, so they are more limited because 1) they mmust encounter the spell and 2) they must have a free "spell known" slot to spare).

Also, in the core book you can find this line "Independent Research: A divine spellcaster can also research a spell independently, much as an arcane spellcaster can. Only the creator of such a spell can prepare and cast it, unless she decides to share it with others."

Implying any arcane caster can research spells. As the wizard was the only prepared arcane caster of the core book, the text is a little misleading, but if you read utimate magic, it's clear the research mecanism applies to all casters, if a little differently, as pad300 pointed out.

[CunningMongoose]

Also, independant research is not a feat. It's a feature all casters get for free.

[Corlindale]

You get to pick a few sorc/wiz spells with the Eldritch Heritage line of feats if you pick Arcane bloodline, but that's pretty feat-expensive and requires extensive investment in Cha, usually a witch dump stat. You also can't get it until fairly late, but it's an option.

[Lavode de'Morcaine]

Tristan Windseeker wrote:

I'm not aware of a feat to do this. The Pathfinder Savant prestige class gives up one caster level, but lets you add spells from any class's spell list to your own.

Where is the Pathfinder Savant prestige class found? I haven't been able to locate it.

[blackbloodtroll]

The Sahir-Afiyun feat will add a number of spells to your list.

[Fionnabhair]

What about making your Witch a wordcaster? You're still limited to words of power on the Witch list, but if you're looking for versatility, that might be the way to go.

[Diego Rossi]

Lavode de'Morcaine wrote:

Tristan Windseeker wrote:

I'm not aware of a feat to do this. The Pathfinder Savant prestige class gives up one caster level, but lets you add spells from any class's spell list to your own.

Where is the Pathfinder Savant prestige class found? I haven't been able to locate it.

You can find a description here. Pretty costly as you will lose the hexes.

[Lavode de'Morcaine]

Diego Rossi wrote:

...You can find a description here. Pretty costly as you will lose the hexes.

Actually, I was considering it for a sorcerer. I wanted to add Bestow Grace of the Champion. Then I looked closer and realized it was only for LG targets. {sigh}

[Askanipsion]

I was looking to add a specific spell to the Witch...it is a 1st lvl 3.5 Bard spell that allows a target to re-roll a skill check as immediate action. I felt it fit in with other witch curse/luck spells like "Ill Omen" for flavor.

I will see if my DM will allow Independent Research for me to get it but wanted to check to see if there was a feat or easier way to get the specific spell.

Thanks everyone for the help! :)

[Joyd]

Given the existance of the Fortune hex, I'd say that such a spell is within the bounds of the sort of effects that a witch is allowed to have, so a DM that allows you to research spells might very reasonably allow you to get that one.

[Diego Rossi]

It could be a good reason not to allow it too. It make the hex redundant and introduce a spell that almost certainly has a better range. Then it is an immediate action spell, something very rare in Pathfinder. it all depend on the GM.

[Vellan]

I have an idea that could be plausible, provided that your Game Master is accommodating and you're using Variant Multiclassing to develop as a wizard. This approach grants access to an array of wizard abilities.

Imagine investing time in role-playing the learning journey of becoming a VMC wizard and enrolling in a magical institution, like the Wizard College in the Inner Seas Magic. In my experience, most GMs are amenable to such character development if players are ready to incur significant costs. For instance, by choosing Variant Multiclassing and relinquishing half of your feats, the GM might permit the learning of wizard spells.

I would self-impose a restriction: only spells from the selected school can be learned at the standard cost. Spells from other schools would be treated as if they were from opposition schools, costing double and likely requiring two slots.

The rationale behind this is that a Witch undergoing VSM to become a wizard is, in a roundabout way, a wizard. This transformation and the associated limitations introduce an exciting dynamic to character progression and gameplay.

[Azothath]

Vellan wrote:

...

replying to a post from 2012 and suggesting an optional system like VMC (PF Unch). ummm... have you heard of Samsaran and Mythic Past Life? (PF Unchanined circa 2015 and Innr Sea Races circa 2015). There are also some Feats that grant you access at the cost of a spell level. I'd have to check to see if any were around in 2012... there's an old PFS GM stars boon that does it for scrolls.

[Chillel]

I built a Gathlain Witch for a campaign I am GMing and the players are playing a Ranger and Bloodrager, so have no dedicated caster, arcane or divine.

The witch is a Fey Touched Hexer [I know it is 3rd party] with the Healing patron and the Gathlain FCB allows them to take a Druid spell and add it to the Familiars spells known. It must be of 1 level below the highest level spell the witch can cast. That FCB is excellent, even more so for a spontaneous caster.

I was proud of the character i came up with to cover the parties weaknesses, witches are decent healers and the healing domain turns them into a 2nd rate cleric, and the druid spells to a 2nd rate druid.

[Heather 540]

Alchemists can do the spell research too, right? I have one that owns a potion shop and needs more variety in his inventory.

[Diego Rossi]

Heather 540 wrote:

Alchemists can do the spell research too, right? I have one that owns a potion shop and needs more variety in his inventory.

They can research new extracts. Both stuff that already exists but which formula they don't know and custom extract available only in your campaign. The latter requires a lot of careful consideration from your GM.

[Heather 540]

Cool. It's a living world group so I have a few other magic shops to compete with.