My friends and I are about to start Kingmaker and are pondering the possibility of creating characters based on the Greek and Roman world. I think it could be fun and different but I was wondering if anyone else had done this (in any campaign) and how it worked out?
Well, one common greek and roman theme is a hero descended from the gods. If you are up for 3rd party material the Super Genius Games Godling which contains the mighty (combat) and clever (rogueish) godlings, and the Mystic Godling adds in casters to the mix. This was expanded on with the Godling Ascendant giving more options for all 4 types of godlings.
I have used Mighty, Clever and Mystic godlings in my campaigns to good effect, and with the expansion of options from the Ascendant product they are robust classes. You could very easily have an all godling party that are descendants of the Gods.
In the event that you do decide to go with the above, there is a bundle for all 3 pdfs which would save you some money if you were interested in all 3.
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Sean K Reynolds made this amazing, free product for 3.5.
I'm not sure about 'greek and roman world' though: that is very, very broad. For Kingmaker, I would probably go for mythic Greece: think Odyssey and Iliad.
I'd think a lot of it just requires thematic choices of allowed weapons, armor, and classes.
Seems like you'd see a lot of use out of spears of various types. I think you'd see a lot of sword and board style fighting, especially with specific, lighter blades. And I don't think many heavy armors would be used in general. So maybe breastplates are about the heaviest armors available?
I ran a retroclone D&D one-shot at Gamestorm setting in a mythic greek world all about slaying a minotaur menacing a local lord.
Very well received.
Really, pathfinder already has everything you need. Minotaurs, centaurs, satyrs, pegasus, chimera, medusa, cereberus, etc. etc. etc.
Making your D&D/Pathfinder mythic greek is much more about paring down than adding to.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
I have no experience, but I have dreamt.
Hoplites, and peltasts and pricipes, oh my!
Our last real 3.5 game was a campaign world where I had taken all the Greek/Roman elements (Styx, Hades, Elysium, the various gods) and had transported them to a dark ages/medieval world. I also mixed in a bit of Egyptian Mythos for visitors from a "far-away land," and had some Norse myths working in the extreme north of the continent the party was adventuring on.
So, imagine Medieval Europe with more open borders, devotion to ancient gods and rituals, and medieval architecture inspired even more by the Greek/Roman.
Character names tended to come from latin words (you can research etymology of common words derived from Latin on Merriam-Webster.com), as did place names, though we tried to keep them fairly original for my original maps.
Used the same base creatures as Fire Mountain Games mentioned, but tweaked them a bit. For instance, instead of satyrs, I modded up some fierce goatmen based on the GW and Reaper beastman minis - much fiercer, but in the same vein. Similarly, our minotaurs tended toward the ranger class and could sometimes be counted on to keep treaties or truces, particularly when sacrifices of gold or cattle were offered. Lots of serpents, usually led by Medusae. Our party's paladin was devoted to Athena and rode a Pegasus.
One thing that was important for me, was that gods showed up and interacted with the characters to some degree. Gods make an appearance in Greek myth, so you should not be afraid to make them known in a heavily Greek campaign. That does not mean the PCs should attack them - they should not - nor that you should gimp them. It just means that sometimes a god or his messenger shows up to deliver a message, grant an item or ability, or give marching orders (and even sometimes punish somebody). I made sure everybody knew this before we began.
It was quite a good campaign. Very enjoyable. The player of the druid had a great time, especially (he multiclassed as a priest of Demeter, and got to hang out with all the lady priests, and take part in their "fertility rituals" - that all took place off-camera, of course).
TOGA!!! TOGA!!!
Our last real 3.5 game was a campaign world where I had taken all the Greek/Roman elements (Styx, Hades, Elysium, the various gods) and had transported them to a dark ages/medieval world. I also mixed in a bit of Egyptian Mythos for visitors from a "far-away land," and had some Norse myths working in the extreme north of the continent the party was adventuring on.
So, imagine Medieval Europe with more open borders, devotion to ancient gods and rituals, and medieval architecture inspired even more by the Greek/Roman.
Character names tended to come from latin words (you can research etymology of common words derived from Latin on Merriam-Webster.com), as did place names, though we tried to keep them fairly original for my original maps.
Used the same base creatures as Fire Mountain Games mentioned, but tweaked them a bit. For instance, instead of satyrs, I modded up some fierce goatmen based on the GW and Reaper beastman minis - much fiercer, but in the same vein. Similarly, our minotaurs tended toward the ranger class and could sometimes be counted on to keep treaties or truces, particularly when sacrifices of gold or cattle were offered. Lots of serpents, usually led by Medusae. Our party's paladin was devoted to Athena and rode a Pegasus.
One thing that was important for me, was that gods showed up and interacted with the characters to some degree. Gods make an appearance in Greek myth, so you should not be afraid to make them known in a heavily Greek campaign. That does not mean the PCs should attack them - they should not - nor that you should gimp them. It just means that sometimes a god or his messenger shows up to deliver a message, grant an item or ability, or give marching orders (and even sometimes punish somebody). I made sure everybody knew this before we began.
It was quite a good campaign. Very enjoyable. The player of the druid had a great time, especially (he multiclassed as a priest of Demeter, and got to hang out with all the lady priests, and take part in their "fertility rituals"...
Did you have Christian elements as well?
Thanks for all the feedback, folks!
I often GM in our group but on this occasion I'm playing. (Yay!) When Kingmaker came out I incorporated the Kingdom building into the campaign I was running, which went down well. Mivon and Pitax in particular also established themselves as places in our homebrew world. All of this means that I can't influence the game world much but..
If enough of the other players get on board with the idea we'll have group of Greek/Roman style characters exploring the usual Stolen Lanads. I think the juxtaposition of classical characters in a medieval fantasy culture would make for some interesting gaming. Sounds like Brunnwald's campiagn was a similar sort of thing.
@Atarlost: Thanks, I'd completely missed the Oracle's Greek connections!
@Kolkotroni: The Godlings look cool but I don't think that's what ou rGM is after in this campaign. I'll have to keep them in mind for future though.
@GeraintElberion: That's a great PDF, thanks for the link. I'm deliberately pitching the idea as broad as possible to my fellow players so that we can fit in a variety of character concepts. Hopefully we'll reach mythic hero status by the end of the campaign. ;-)
@Eben the quiet: I agree with you. I think some of my pals may want their full plate armour though...
@Aeshura: Great archetype there - I might have to run it by my GM. I'm still not sure on a build for my character but this is definitely on the list. As for how it influences Kingmaker, I think we might found a city state rather than a feudal monarchy when the time comes.
@Mabven: Me too!
@Fire Mountain Games and Brunnwald: Sounds very cool - thanks for sharing!
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Thanks Gabrias! I wish I could play with your group! I am working on a campaign that is a sequel of sorts to my Rise of the Runelords campaign. I am planning to make it sort of a Golarion World Tour... maybe around levels 3-6 I will be taking the PCs to Ibdylos.
I have plans of starting it kind of like the beginning of Troy, where they are subject to the "Law of Hospitality" and have a huge banquet set up for them. They enjoy the night and have to ask their patron for a relic, a la Jason and the Argonauts. So after their impossible labors, they will find themselves in a sort of Battle of Thermopylae situation as a Chelaxian Noble decides to assault the City-State. I get to use some mass combat in this one!
I am still several months away from this part, but I am really looking forward to it.
Good luck! Glad you get to play this time!
A witch might also be a good class to have in this game rather than a sorcerer.
I had a Roman soldier build in 3.5 before. Human fighter - used Tower Shield, Short Sword (Gladius), and Javelins with the feat Hurling Charge (or some such), that let me throw a Javelin as part of a charge. Pretty effective for using un-optimal weapons and armor (Banded Mail was the best I used).
Sounds fun as hell, though. Try making all the weapons and armor Bronze, and maxing up at medium armor, making more effective martial spears (make up stuff if you need to), and throw in the Kontos in place of the lance (Alexander the Great used them to good effect).
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Sean K Reynolds made this amazing, free product for 3.5.
I'm not sure about 'greek and roman world' though: that is very, very broad. For Kingmaker, I would probably go for mythic Greece: think Odyssey and Iliad.
SKR really made a nice product there....I love it and keep it as a possible thing to run in the future, read through it all about once every 6 or so months.
@the Black Raven: That's a new one to me, I'll look it up. Thanks!
@The Red Army: Good to hear your legionary worked out well. I certainly agree with you about the armour and spears and that's the knid of thing I'll do with my character. Not sure what the other players will do though.
@Aeshuura: Sounds like a great adventure you have planned! I think players like movie parallels so I reckon you're on to a good thing taking inspiration from the start of Troy.
I think SKR's PDF is defintely on my list of things to run in future. Updating it to PFR would be a bit of work though.
By the by I've made a thread in the Advice forum asking for help with a Hoplite build in case anyone is interested. The wonderful creative and historical minds of the forum have already provided me a ton of ideas!
I was in a campaign with a very strong Roman background.
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz3a2u&page=1?Imperial-Campaign
The campaign world was very grim - but it was very well drawn and immersive. If you're going to use a classical setting, you need to decide what your view on slavery is, and what that of good-aligned pcs should be. Particularly the Roman Empire was a slave economy and that is inevitably going to have some tension with our western relatively liberal perceptions. Social structures were extremely rigid which isn't ideal for bands of freelance PCs so you'd probably either have to compromise, or play it to the hilt as a major role challenge in itself.
I agree with RedArmy about changing/making up weapons. A legionary build needs a heavy throwing spear (you don't need the bendy shank, but you do prob need a d8 damage), and also probably waive the '2-weapon fighting' as a pre-requisite for Shield Slam. Hoplite's need to be able to use a long spear one handed. Bronze probably doesn't make that much difference, iron isn't actually much better (holds an edge better is the main thing), but it's way way *cheaper* which is why iron using cultures did better - they could give EVERYONE weapons and armour rather than just the nobles.
And chariots are cool!
I too was in a Roman-themed game. Two of us (myself included) were Celts actually. I was a druid and focused more on worshipping nature and some of the Celts. The ranger was very much a Pict inspired archer from Gaul. The two of use acted as guides for the other three members of the Roman Imperial Legion.
