| rpewin01 |
I need help with suggestions for an arcane caster. I am new to Pathfinder/3.5 (long time 2e player who took a break for several years). I just joined a group and made a human wizard in the style of Treatmonk's GOD wizard. Took Spell Focus Conjuration and Augment Summoning. Conjuration teleportation specialist with Necro and Evocation as banned schools. My plan was to never have a blasting spell. Total focus on control and SoD spells (love the create pit spells, stinking cloud, etc.).
I have had a blast so far and we just advanced to second level. In the first adventure I took out the BBEG with a color spray, and in the second my summoned eagle chased down a fleeing lizard guy :).
Only problem is we just had a 6th player join and he is playing a witch. I don't know much about a witch, but I'm afraid he is going to be duplicating a lot of control debeffuing stuff I was going for, which would both be overkill and make my role boring.
Current party(all second level):
Human cleric (healing-focused)
Half-Elf switch hitter ranger
Halfling rogue
Human witch
Human dual-wield fighter
Human wizard (me).
DM has given me permission to change characters because of new player if I want. I want to play an arcane based class (but not a Magus, just dont like the in-your-face fighter bent). Doesn't need to be heavily optimized, but needs to be good at what he does, and most important UNIQUE and FUN to play.
Maybe a sorceror? How does it play out over 20 levels. We use a slow progression (3-4 sessions/level). I'm worried for two months I'll be looking over at the witch wishing I had that higher level spell. What bloodlines would make it good and interesting. Our party could be a little low on damage so something that can dish out pain could be useful if the witch is controlling/debuffing, but not a PURE blaster cause thats too boring.
Maybe a wizard with a different focus? What works to be able to bring the pain when I need to, but still have other interesting/effective options that won't just duplicate what the wizard can do.
Maybe a summoner? The Eidolon seems interesting. But no synthesist cause I don't want to be melee. Any way to make a cool archer riding around on a flying spider or something? Or a way to be effective staying back casting spells while the Eidolon is in melee? Don't want to be a master summoner. I like the idea of summoning, but I only need one or two at a time. I don't want to bog down the game with 5+ creatures.
What would you do???
| Some Random Dood |
For an arcane caster you have several options as you've listed. For the master summoner you don't have to summon 5+ things at a time, you could just have 1-2 out if you want. Or you could play a sorcerer and take 1 damage spell per spell lv then have the rest of your spells known be for buffing/debuffing/support. Which is basically what I'm doing with my sorcerer, I can blast pretty well and support the group when needed. If you go human sorcerer you can use your favored class bonus to learn another spell known instead of 1 hp or skill point. I don't particularly like primary prepared casters myself so I can't really help you there.
| Karuth |
You don't need to change your character.
As a wizard you have a huge variety with your spells anyway, while the witch has a rather limited selection.
Just talk with the player of the witch what kind of spells/tactis he plans to do and then adjust your selection accordingly to minimize overlap.
If he wants to focus on control and debuff you can instead focus on summoning for example (you have the augment summon feat after all).
And if you want to go in a totally different direction, just ask if you can retrain your feats. Spell Focus in a different school of magic could make all the difference.
Besides, even if there is some overlap that does not mean it is not good RP potential. The two characters have something in common they can talk about.
And coordinated debuffing can be very strong too.
TheSideKick
|
witchs are the best buff/debuff class in the game, will it take your place? most likly not, over all you have a wide array of save or die, contingency back up, and best of all... you have a bonded object, assuming you took that. i dont know why you chose necro as a prohibited school, its is hands down the most powerful in taking out single opponents, but thats your choice.
here is a powerful witch at 3rd level
extra hex hex
cackle (makes hexes last longer)
misfortune (every time you roll a d20 reroll and take the lowest)
then the feat for if you fail a hex save you get to try the next round.
as a gm and a player i have found witches to be the cr killers. they can move action cackle and cast a standard action or cast cackle 2 times in a round, and once that misfortune lands on the central mass of the cr encounter its game over for that bad guy.
you as a wizzard will have a hard time out controling that character. you run on spells per day and gold purchased scrolls and wands while a witch will have the ability to cast hexes on every bad guy all day long until they suceed on a save. so all in all you will have to play conservitavly while he can "spam" his spelllike ability. he will shine at low levels, but you will have more power over all at end game 12-15ish
hope this helps you a little in understanding how a witch can be played.
| StreamOfTheSky |
Don't change your character, at least not drastically. To differentiate more you may want to prohibit Enchantment instead of one of your current 2 choices (Witches have a bit less evocation than necromancy, I think, but since you don't want any blasting just prohibit necro and enchantment).
Witch has a very narrow, though also incomprehensibly random (they get some blasts but not most, others at +1 level; most enchantments yet oddly missing Hideous Laughter somehow; smattering of cloud spells; etc...) assortment of spells. Before level 9-10, they have trouble targeting a save other than will reliably. They CAN spam will save effects all day long, though. So just keep focusing on your battlefield control spells and fort and reflex save spells mostly. You have access to some single target debuff spells the witch does not get, but overall you should probably leave that stuff up to him if you want to avoid too much overlap.
| rpewin01 |
Thanks for the advice. I can retrain feats, choose a new race, etc. this one time.
I like the idea of keeping my wizard but maybe focusing on other spells. What would you specialize in/focus on so not to overlap with the witch? Evocation, conjuration, necromancy? I dont need to spell focus and greater spell focus in the same school I specialize in though. I'm thinking maybe to take some more blast spells to give our party more damage and something that targets reflex and then backing it up with some of the cool spells the witch doesn't get, like create pit. Would I be better of putting my feats into conjuration and summoning then or evocation? But if I decide to throw some fireballs and lightning bolts around I don't know if I'm better off going all in to make them worthwhile, or just keep them as a backup and still focus on my save or suck spells.
I think the idea of a sorcerer is pretty cool and the human ability negates a lot of the spell concerns, but how harmful is the slower spell progression? Does the higher level spell every odd level make the wizard or witch more powerful?
Finally, is it is possible to play a summoner that does more than buff and send his eidolon into melee. I just don't really enjoy buffing. Basically, my favorite things to do in RPGS in order of preference are: incapacitate bad guys with spells, control melee monsters, deal damage at range (prefer spells, but love archers too), and buff (a distant fourth), get in melee myself (almost never).
BTW, I'm playing Curse of the Crimson Throne if that helps, BUT NO SPOILERS!!!
| StreamOfTheSky |
I hate dealing with the delayed spell progression, personally, though I like sorcerer. Human favored class greatly helps with spell versatility.
Evocation is more than blasting, it's also Wall of Force, Wind Wall, Resilient Sphere, Contingency, etc... You're just needlessly limiting yourself if you un-prohibit evocation but stick to the "never learn a blast spell" plan, is all.
Summoner is very strong despite the 6-level casting, they get almost ALL of their higher level spells at lower level than normal. At the very least, they have a wide assortment of cloud/fog and pit spells for battlefield control, but they also get many other spells at earlier spell level. Summoner is certainly good at buffing; they actually get Haste as a level 2 spell, which means they're casting it even before a wizard!
If you want to know what spells you could choose to not overlap w/ the Witch, check out their spell list. The offensive hexes are basically all single target debuffs, mainly will save-based.
| pipedreamsam |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If it is a vanilla witch, change nothing, nothing. The witch spell list is severely lacking battlefield control spells, it gets a few evocations and all the summons, but unless these are something the character really wants to pursue then the witch is all about hexing and debuffing. When I played a witch I usually threw out three or four hexes before I considered throwing out a spell and I was the only full caster. The one exception was if we got a surprise round I would sometimes throw a BC spell out.
Do not change a thing.
ZomB
|
Stick with Wizard.
Wizards have better and more BC spells than a witch. You will be casting area BC spells while the witch is busy hexing single targets. Even though the witch can get area effects like Web, Glitterdust, Stinking cloud, sleet storm; they use hexes first.
Wizards will likely have higher DC spells with feats like spell focus. Witches usually put their feats into extra hex almost exclusively.
As you mentioned create pit is excellent and a reason to spell focus conjuration.
You can also cover off illusions way better and things like invisibility.
Perhaps pick Enchantment as your opposition school where the witch focus/flavor lies. There are a few nice Evocation spells (not blast spells)
The witch is weak against undead and other non-mind-spell-affected-creatures so cover off that base too.
calagnar
|
I would stick with your character as is. Unless you really want to change it. The witch is good at debuffing with hexes, and has a good but limited spell list.
With that their are things you can do. To make the difference between you and the witch more noticeable. You could look over the witch spell list and see what spells you have that are not on it. Then prep most of your spells from the list the witch can't cast.
If you really want to do a rebuild. I would go with a different type of wizard then you have now. This is just my opinion but if your allowed Wizard (Arcane Bomber). Is as far from a witch as you can get and still be a wizard.