Is this serious?
If I fire a blunderbuss with a scatter shot, they are immune to my damage?
What about dragon fire?
Alchemist fire?
Is a blunderbuss listed under weapons? If so, then they are immune. Diminuative swarms are immune to weapon damage, period. It wouldn't be an unreasonable houserule otherwise, but that's the case.
Dragonfire is fine, as is alchemist fire.
How the heck are first level characters suppose to deal with those kinds of things without the aid of some spell caster who has trained some first level aoe?
How the heck are first level characters suppose to deal with those kinds of things without the aid of some spell caster who has trained some first level aoe?
Creativity.
Like using cheap lamp oil as improvised alchemist fire, or pouring salt on a leech swarm.
How the heck are first level characters suppose to deal with those kinds of things without the aid of some spell caster who has trained some first level aoe?
Swarms that first-level characters encounter shouldn't have too many hit points. (Spider swarms average 9hp, bat swarms 13hp. A rat swarm averages 16hp but is tiny and can get smacked around with weapons.)
Alchemist's fire will deal 2-18 fire damage to a swarm over the course of 2 rounds. That's a worthwhile investment of 25gp. A flask of acid will do 1-9 points of damage for 10gp if you want a cheaper route.
An arcane caster with a prepared acid splash and a flask of acid power focus, or ray of frost and liquid ice power focus, (AA) can plink the swarm for 2-4 damage a round.
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How the heck are first level characters suppose to deal with those kinds of things without the aid of some spell caster who has trained some first level aoe?
RUN AWAY!!
CJ
An arcane caster with a prepared acid splash and a flask of acid power focus, or ray of frost and liquid ice power focus, (AA) can plink the swarm for 2-4 damage a round.
No they can't. Both Acid Splash and Ray of Frost target a specific number of targets (in this case, 1). However, all swarms have the following trait:
A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.
Damaging spells have to affect an area to be used against swarms.
Damaging spells have to affect an area to be used against swarms.
Go search up the other thread on this, not going to rehash a valid RAW argument that's already on the boards. Spells with an Effect do not have a Target. Swarm verbage does not state an effect must have an area to affect a swarm.
Go search up the other thread on this, not going to rehash a valid RAW argument that's already on the boards. Spells with an Effect do not have a Target. Swarm verbage does not state an effect must have an area to affect a swarm.
Damaging spells have to affect an area to be used against swarms.
The Swarm entry is using target as something being subjecting to the effect, not the Target Line of the spell. It then makes itself perfectly clear on this matter by adressing disintegrate.
A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.
Disintegrate
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 6
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (a lodestone and a pinch of dust)
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect ray
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial (object); Spell Resistance yes
How the heck are first level characters suppose to deal with those kinds of things without the aid of some spell caster who has trained some first level aoe?Hmm...alchemist fire? It costs 20 gold per bottle. That's not a lot of gold, even at level 1.
Alchemist fire is a lot of gold at level 1.
if you get 100 gp at level 1, a single alchemist fire takes 1/5 your cash.
Armor probably takes another 5th or more.
Then weapons, and adventuring gear.
here is your starting gold amounts. Remember not every adventure do you have easy access to vending machines and pinata monsters.
Class Starting Wealth Average
Alchemist 3d6 × 10 gp 105 gp
Barbarian 3d6 × 10 gp 105 gp
Bard 3d6 × 10 gp 105 gp
Cavalier 5d6 x 10 gp 175 gp
Cleric 4d6 × 10 gp 140 gp
Druid 2d6 × 10 gp 70 gp
Fighter 5d6 x 10 gp 175 gp
Inquisitor 4d6 × 10 gp 140 gp
Monk 1d6 × 10 gp 35 gp
Oracle 3d6 × 10 gp 105 gp
Paladin 5d6 × 10 gp 175 gp
Ranger 5d6 × 10 gp 175 gp
Rogue 4d6 × 10 gp 140 gp
Sorcerer 2d6 × 10 gp 70 gp
Summoner 2d6 × 10 gp 70 gp
Wizard 2d6 × 10 gp 70 gp
Witch 3d6 × 10 gp 105 gp
Alchemist fire is a lot of gold at level 1.
if you get 100 gp at level 1, a single alchemist fire takes 1/5 your cash.
A character stands a good chance of getting more cash long before hitting second level. And again you can get a cheaper version for a single silver piece. A good way to stretch one's Fire budget is to have one person throw a real alchemist fire, then the rest of the party just start chucking cheap oil flasks without rigging those to ignite since the target is already on fire.
Not every adventure has vend-o-mart just around the corner.
Such as ours. Where we are on an abandon isle. In the middle of no where.
But I've thought of a better idea..
Create water.
How the heck are first level characters suppose to deal with those kinds of things without the aid of some spell caster who has trained some first level aoe?
A wizard or (especially) sorcerer with burning hands will be a lifesaver. In the case of a bat or rat swarm, color spray is a good one.
Shows why having a spellcaster is always a good idea. Since you don't, better hope you've got enough lamp oil, or a higher movement rate than the swarm.
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So you are on an abandoned isle with no way to leave or buy stuff? How do you get ammo for the blunderbuss? That stuff ain't cheap and you would probably be using that in most encounters, running out quickly when you look at how many rounds you can buy with starting gold.
Seems to me that you need to leave the island, go get something to kill the swarm(s) with and return to take care of them. Or find a way to get around them. Shoot, you can burn them by lighting a torch, tossing a bit of gunpowder into the swarm and igniting that.
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I've never had problems with gold at level 1. I can spare 20gp. If I a caster, I REALLY can afford it. If the players are not prepared and made a level 1 character without alchemist fire, that's on them for not being prepared.
If you are worried about not having enough $$$ for alchemist fire, give your players 20 gold or have their group find some.
I've played a lot of fighting classes, and I can easily afford it.
Outfit (free)
Backpack
Bedroll
Bag
Whetstone
Waterskin
Rope
Grappling hook
Torches 2-3
Armor (usually hide, for a cheap 15gp, or leather, since this isn't permanent armor, I don't spend more than maybe 50 at most).
3-4 weapons (primary, secondary, tertiary, free club, free sling, 1 GP for bullets)
Vend-o-mart my ass. Alchemist fire isn't something rare and unique. It's a starting level item that costs 20 gp that runs out of effectiveness by level 3 or 4 usually. The other alchemical items are most useful later on like thunderstone to deafen a caster, or tanglefoot bag to give them some -DEX and attack.
If your GM isn't giving you a chance to buy or find items, that's his fault. Serpent's Skull AP #1 has the party STRANDED on a cursed island with only their starting gear. The AP lets you find items needed to survive, so if your GM isn't doing that, he's got some design or balance issues.
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So you are on an abandoned isle with no way to leave or buy stuff? How do you get ammo for the blunderbuss? That stuff ain't cheap and you would probably be using that in most encounters, running out quickly when you look at how many rounds you can buy with starting gold.
Seems to me that you need to leave the island, go get something to kill the swarm(s) with and return to take care of them. Or find a way to get around them. Shoot, you can burn them by lighting a torch, tossing a bit of gunpowder into the swarm and igniting that.
Ha, I forgot about that.
So you guys have access to gunpowder and ammo, but didn't think to buy alchemist fire before you left? I have a gunslinger, and it's not cheap at level 1. After that, it's clear sailing, but level 1 gunslingers are starving for money, but the gunslinger with his blunderbuss seems to be able to afford it.
What's your excuse?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Shoot, you can burn them by lighting a torch, tossing a bit of gunpowder into the swarm and igniting that.
Or, you know, just lighting a torch. Used as a melee weapon, it'll still deal 1 point of fire damage to the swarm with each attack. Get 4 or 5 PCs together doing that each round, and you should be able to take out a low-level swarm in a few rounds. Not the best way to handle it, but possibly the cheapest.
So you are on an abandoned isle with no way to leave or buy stuff? How do you get ammo for the blunderbuss? That stuff ain't cheap and you would probably be using that in most encounters, running out quickly when you look at how many rounds you can buy with starting gold.
Seems to me that you need to leave the island, go get something to kill the swarm(s) with and return to take care of them. Or find a way to get around them. Shoot, you can burn them by lighting a torch, tossing a bit of gunpowder into the swarm and igniting that.
I've actually done quite a bit of research on the subject of gunpowder.
You need a nitrate, fuel and sulfer.
Nitrate I can find off of bat guano.
Charcoal provides fuel.
Sulfer is the slightly tricky one..
Or Of course I could just use.. Secret stash. AKA - Produce 3 shots a day for free, cause I had them on me the whole time.
Also, I'm not stupid. I know that using the gun is expensive. Thats why I have a handful of other weapons. Cause Gunslingers don't just get "MUST USE GUNS!" as their prof.
Serpent's Skull AP #1 has the party STRANDED on a cursed island with only their starting gear.
DING DING DING! WE have a winnner!
Exactly! That is EXACTLY where we are. Our group hasn't ever fought swarms before, and we are used to actually having vend-o-mart (as In that helpful merchant guy who is always around to buy things from.) Apparently the rest of the group immediately fought some swarms.
The group consisted of a wizard - Specializing in color spray from what I hear (And similar spells). A serpent folk druid, a rogue, a fighter and a ranger. I was out of town at the time, so my character is "there" but not. I'm running on a bit of free pass to bring in stuff to assist people. And frankly, I'm not going to be going for the buy a bunch of alchemist fires route. Like you said, I'm a gunslinger and being such is a bit expensive. I've eliminated some of the cost by being able to produce a few rounds... Cause my DM isn't running the "guns are everywhere" type of game. (which you know, lowers the cost significantly.)
The swarm they came against was diminutive vermin. So colorspray is useless.
Perhaps instead, of trying to use something that costs 20 gp per each swarm.. Why not instead use..
Swarm suit. Seriously, pay 20gp once. Or Vermin repellent. Or insect bane candles.
Personally, as a DM, I would say that a blunderbuss would do some damage to the swarm, but it would be sonic/fire damage from the mussel flash rather then from the ammunition itself.
I thought area effects always worked on swarms regardless of source. How was I wrong exactly?
Thats what I thought too Raving.. But I just found out something about blunderbusses..
They arn't AoE.. and yet they are. Instead of forcing a reflex save when doing a scatter shot, you attack every creatures ac in the AoE.
Thats what I thought too Raving.. But I just found out something about blunderbusses..
They arn't AoE.. and yet they are. Instead of forcing a reflex save when doing a scatter shot, you attack every creatures ac in the AoE.
Ah, yes. I remember now.