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Ok,
I need some advice on my current character. We've just started a new campaign, and he's doing pretty well so far. The game is taking place in a homebrewed version of Forgotten Realms, and he's a dhampir from Shou Lung. He left Shou Lung because his dhampir heritage left him with red eyes, pale skin, and white hair (he's not albino, but he looks like one, and it explains his light sensitivity). He moved to the western realms after completing his blacksmith's apprenticeship to better blend in (his mother is a vampiric warlord in the realms of Shou Lung, so he's also trying to get out from under her shadow). He's LN.
So anyway, I'm thinking of going MT with him. Currently, he's a 2nd level Oracle of Metal (he speaks Terran when he's in combat, his voice sounds like metal scraping and ringing off metal when he speaks). He currently wields a 9-ring sword and wears mountain scale armor. (Skill at Arms and Armor Mastery revelations).
I'm thinking the most logical sorcerer step would be the Sangiune Sorcerer (undead bloodline alternate). Now, the armor I'm planning on keeping, so I'm either going to have to take the ARcane Armor feats, or I'm going to have to select spells that have no somatic component. I'm trying to decide between those two so far.
The GM is allowing some 3.5 stuff in, so I'm thinking about taking Practiced Spellcaster for both Sorcerer and Oracle, to keep his caster level up. So my request is for suggestions on spell selection (to avoid somatics) to start. Currently for Oracle he's got Lead Blades, Inflict Wounds, Cure Light, and Lesser Vigor (he's the fighter/healer of the group).
For those of you who want to b*tch about this not being an optimized build, I don't really give a ****. The current group is not an optimization group, so none of the characters are optimized. So as long as I can come within spitting distance of a non-optimized cleric at a given level (combat wise and spell wise) I'm more than satisified.
Get the Twilight enchantment from whatever book had Duskblades. That lowers the ASF by 10. Get the armor in Mithral. Another -10 ASF. I'm not familiar with mountain scale armor. Mountains don't have scales, so I assume it's actually iron.
Or: ask the GM to allow you to cast the sorcerer spells in armor. Make sure to invoke the Rule of Awesome.
Or: Just take the Eldritch Heritage feats instead of sorcerer. I'd lean towards this one, but I do not know why you wish to be a sorcerer.
An MT seem weird choise. An MT focus on Spellcasting and your character seem to focus in melee combat. If you are the figther/healer why you want to be MT??
Note: the twiligt can be foun in the item compendium.
Didn't say I was focusing on spellcasting. I'm focusing on a combat MT. Yes, it's not perfect, but looking over Oracle of Metal, I'm honestly not going to want many of the revelations. The mystery is nice for a combat magic user, but it's not got a lot of really nice options beyond the first few revelations. Since the group is not an optimization group, I'm going for backstory/character over mechanical optimzation (which I actually stated in the OP). So at this point, since I don't have to squeeze optimization out, I'm looking for ways to keep the martial ability and add versatility while staying in the concept (magically active dhampir with a mixed heritage). His father (which I forgot to mention in the OP) is a bladesinger (a very well known oracle of metal who's famous for his swords). So his heritage is a mixing of arcane and divine, life and death. The combination is not mechanically over powered, but it is fun to play.
On that note, I had forgotten about Twilight Armor mods (Thanks Cheapy). I'd planned on getting mithral heavy armor eventually. Probably O-Yoroi armor.
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A vampire in twilight armor...
Get the Twilight enchantment from whatever book had Duskblades. That lowers the ASF by 10. Get the armor in Mithral. Another -10 ASF. I'm not familiar with mountain scale armor. Mountains don't have scales, so I assume it's actually iron.
Or: ask the GM to allow you to cast the sorcerer spells in armor. Make sure to invoke the Rule of Awesome.
Or: Just take the Eldritch Heritage feats instead of sorcerer. I'd lean towards this one, but I do not know why you wish to be a sorcerer.
Sorry, Mountain Pattern Armor. It's from UC, it's historically based asian armor. The name comes from the fact that the interlocking scales are shaped the same as the symbol for Mountain. It's medium armor.
So, mithral takes off 10%, and Twilight (+1 bonus) takes off another 10%. That's 20% off. If I stick with MPA, then that takes care of the ACP if I get the Arcane Armor feat. If I upgrade to O-Yoroi (full samurai armor), that's 35% failure. So I'd need both Arcane Armor and AA Mastery. So, expensive, but it would keep me in heavy armor and hitting routinely. Or I just minimize my spell selection on Somatics, and I take a chance on the 10% or 15% spell failure. Probably minimize my spell selection to start off with things without somatics (Flare Burst and True Strike seem like good selections at low levels with no somatics, especially for my character).
A vampire in twilight armor...
I refuse to twinkle.
A vampire in twilight armor...I refuse to twinkle.
Until your GM casts Glitterdust on you.
Since I don't really have much advice for MTs, I'll just try to think of anything else that can help you get the same flavor.
Dirge Bard, taking the Eldritch Heritage (Sanguine) feat series. Roughly the same flavor, and the ability to cast in light armor (which a mithral mountain scale would be ;)).
Main problem is that Inspire Courage doesn't fit at all. But I think the Street Performer archetype replaces that, and (more importantly) is easily refluffed to being someone on the run, at least for the first few levels. Streetwise would be useful for someone trying to hide his past, and Disappearing Act isn't quite as out of place as Inspire Courage is.
Pathfinder Savant, Rage Prophet and Loremaster are really your other prestige options that help your current spell casting, and I can understand not wanting any of those for sake of flavor.
If you don't like your class, maybe you could talk your GM into letting you switch to a different one. If you are already dissatisfied by your character at level two, maybe you should just try something else. A Magus perhaps.
A vampire in twilight armor...I refuse to twinkle.Until your GM casts Glitterdust on you.
Since I don't really have much advice for MTs, I'll just try to think of anything else that can help you get the same flavor.
Dirge Bard, taking the Eldritch Heritage (Sanguine) feat series. Roughly the same flavor, and the ability to cast in light armor (which a mithral mountain scale would be ;)).
Main problem is that Inspire Courage doesn't fit at all. But I think the Street Performer archetype replaces that, and (more importantly) is easily refluffed to being someone on the run, at least for the first few levels. Streetwise would be useful for someone trying to hide his past, and Disappearing Act isn't quite as out of place as Inspire Courage is.
Hmm, that's actually not a bad idea. I'm chronically short of skill points, and that would actually fit rather well as well (wouldn't let me heal myself by drinking blood, but that's a double edged sword). And as you point out, I can take eldritch heritage for the drinking blood. It also means I could take the Armored Caster feat from 3.5 to cast in medium armor (since I can cast in light with no penalty).
Can't mix those two archtypes though, they both replace Lore Master. However, it would give me a bunch of healing, since I can cast healing as both a bard and an oracle.
Pathfinder Savant, Rage Prophet and Loremaster are really your other prestige options that help your current spell casting, and I can understand not wanting any of those for sake of flavor.
If you don't like your class, maybe you could talk your GM into letting you switch to a different one. If you are already dissatisfied by your character at level two, maybe you should just try something else. A Magus perhaps.
Oh no, I'm very happy with my character so far, honestly. Seriously. I am just looking ahead 5-6 levels, and seeing that I will be out of any real options I like by 5th level on the Oracle track.
Hmm, are you sure they don't stack? Dirge Bard replaces JoAT, well-versed, versatile performance, and lore master.
Street Performer replaces the Inspire Cool Shit line, countersong, and bardic knowledge. They look compatible to me. I think that SP is the only one that stacks with Dirge Bard.
Yeah Tinalles,
I was looking at the Arcane Duelist bard, and that's another reasonable path. Add in the sangiune heritage via feet, and it gives me the same effect, and if I go 5 bard/4 Oracle, I can cast 2nd level spells of both arcane and divine. I can spend two feets on practiced spellcaster to keep my spellcasting level up to my hit dice as well. I'd also be able to not only cast in my medium armor, but use my weapon for somatic components, keeping my other arm in my shield and keeping my AC up.
Hmm, are you sure they don't stack? Dirge Bard replaces JoAT, well-versed, versatile performance, and lore master.
Street Performer replaces the Inspire Cool S&$$ line, countersong, and bardic knowledge. They look compatible to me. I think that SP is the only one that stacks with Dirge Bard.
Street Performer :
Quick Change (Ex): At 5th level, a street performer can don a disguise as a standard action by taking a –5 penalty on his check. He can take 10 on Bluff and Disguise checks and use Bluff to create a diversion to hide as a swift action. He can take 20 on a Bluff or Disguise check once per day, plus one time per six levels beyond 5th. This ability replaces lore master.Dirge Bard :
Haunting Refrain (Su): At 5th level, a dirge bard is able to stir primal terrors in the hearts of listeners. He can use a Perform (keyboard) or Perform (percussion) check in place of an Intimidate check to demoralize an opponent, with a bonus equal to half his bard level. In addition, saving throws against any fear effect he creates are made with a –2 penalty, and this penalty increases by –1 every 5 levels beyond 5th. This ability replaces lore master.
Well, just looking at the armor, would your DM allow you to use the rules for piecemeal armor?
If so, select a do-maru torso with scale arm and leg pieces. When you add in the +1 for making it a complete suit of armor, the final stats look something like this:
+8 AC, +5 max Dex, -4 armor check penalty, 25% spell failure, 20 ft movement, 30 lb
Make the whole thing mithral and the stats become:
+8 AC, +7 Dex, -1 penalty, 15% failure, 30 ft, 15 lb
And you can still add the Twilight ability from Magic Item Compendium to reduce the ASF chance to 5%, though I would ask your DM if it could just look ephemeral. Vampires, even 1/2 blooded ones, should not sparkle.
Total cost: 4225gp, un-enhanced mithral version.
This might just be one of the best armors in the game IMHO (especially given that it's just medium armor), at least if your DM allows piecemeal armor.
We're avoiding 'optional' rules, just the core/expanded rules for PF (CRB, APG, UM, UC), and some 3.5 stuff. Mostly 3.5 equipment is fine, most feats (the more infamous ones are not, like Vow of Poverty). :) But anything that gives the GM a headache reading the rules (like piecemeal armor, arcane duals, etc) are out.
Sonuva... d20pfsrd.com is missing an entire ability.
If you got a decent Charisma, maybe a few levels of Ninja might be fun too, and would make sense for your character.
If you got a decent Charisma, maybe a few levels of Ninja might be fun too, and would make sense for your character.
LOL, I'm an oracle. Got a great Cha.
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 11
Int 12
Wis 11
Cha 18
Might consider the Ninja too, if I go that route though, I lose out on the Oracle casting.
AM ADVISING YOU NOT TO DO IT, SINGLE CASTING ATTRIBUTE IS NOT WORTH A 4 LEVEL DIP. SORCERER ONLY A DECENT CLASS WHEN YOU CAREFULLY CHOOSE BLOODLINE POWERS AND BUILD ON THEM. THEURGY NOT PLAYING WELL WITH BLOODLINE POWERS. THEURGY NOT FOR HITTING, BARBAROANM FOR HITTING, THEURGY FOR BUFFING, DEBUFFING AND CHANGING REALITY TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS.
I'm going to assume the above was an attempt at humor, given I stated in the OP that I know it's not an optimized build, and the all caps adding to the humor, not just someone screaming at me.
THIS HOW AM MYSTIC THEURGE ALWAYS TALK, THIS HOW AM PARTY TALK.
THE ISSUE IS NOT OPTIMIZATION THE ISSUE IS BEING 8TH LEVEL AND HAVING NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT, THE ISSUE IS BEING 9TH LEVEL AND NOT BEING ABLE TO CAST THIRD LEVEL SPELLS, OR BEING 10TH AND ONLY GETTING ONE THIRD LEVEL SPELL FROM EACH CLASS. AM SOME BUILDS WHERE MAGUS WOULD BE WORKING, BUT MT IS A WIZARD CLASS.
*le sigh*
I should have known that a request to not get the thread bogged down in 'that is bad plan' arguments would be ignored.
*le sigh*
I should have known that a request to not get the thread bogged down in 'that is bad plan' arguments would be ignored.
I AM TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.
LOOK, YOU NEED TO BE 4TH LEVEL WITH TWO CLASSES BEFORE YOU CAN QUALIFY FOR THE CLASS, THE 6 LEVEL SLOG IS DOABLE FOR A WIZARD-CLERIC/DRUID THEURGE BECAUSE YOU CAN GORGE YOURSELF ON VARIETY. GOING THEURGE WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF BEING ABLE TO LEARN ANY AND ALL OF YOUR CLASS'S SPELLS IS MORE BORING THEN PLAYING A FIGHTY. YOU HAVE ONLY ONE SECOND LEVEL SPELL UNTIL 9TH LEVEL, MULTI CLASSING DOES NOTHING TO HELP YOUR BLOODLINE ABILITIES.
And if you want the short rules on Piecemeal they essentially stand like this (to hopefully reduce headache):
Select your torso, arm, and leg pieces from the carts provided.
Add all AC bonuses together. If you have at least one set of each, add +1 to this total for completing a full suit of armor.
Use the worst max Dex, armor check penalty, ASF chance, and movement speed for this "suit" of armor (disregarding completeness of the suit).
Add up the weight of all pieces of armor.
There are more rules if you enhance the pieces separately, or if you buy or craft them separately, but otherwise you just treat it as a single suit of armor and get the whole thing made/enhanced at one time.
That said, if your DM still doesn't want to deal with it, that's his prerogative.
As for AM MYSTIC THEURGE, if you don't like the build, that's cool, but it's what the thread is about making, regardless of optimization, etc., so please be supportive.
Besides, the extra spells/day for a Sorc is a nice boost, even if you lag one lvl behind a Wiz on access to the brightest and shiniest of spells. & IMO, extra spells is what the Mystic Theurge is all about anyway.
Though on a side note, you might consider an Emperial/Undead Crossblooded Sorc, taking the powers from the Undead bloodline. This would consolidate all your spellcasting to Wisdom as you primary stat and free up some stat boosts.
If you got a decent Charisma, maybe a few levels of Ninja might be fun too, and would make sense for your character.LOL, I'm an oracle. Got a great Cha.
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 11
Int 12
Wis 11
Cha 18Might consider the Ninja too, if I go that route though, I lose out on the Oracle casting.
Well, if you are looking at 5 levels of bard, you are not really interested in higher level oracle spells anyway. You would be like level 11 before you got 3rd level spells. Of course it would be worth it if you played up to 18-20.
Two levels of Ninja get you a Cha based Ki pool then get forgotten trick and be able to pull off any ninja trick with it. After that go monk and you can add to your Ki pool. Sohei uses armor, so that is a possibility, and Qinggong monk gets you all sorts of fun options.
That said, if your DM still doesn't want to deal with it, that's his prerogative.
Yeah, it's probably not going to fly. So I'd rather not get in an argument about it. Besides, like I said, we're not going heavily optimized in this game, so flavor over mechanics is not a penalty.
Besides, the extra spells/day for a Sorc is a nice boost, even if you lag one lvl behind a Wiz on access to the brightest and shiniest of spells. & IMO, extra spells is what the Mystic Theurge is all about anyway.Though on a side note, you might consider an Emperial/Undead Crossblooded Sorc, taking the powers from the Undead bloodline. This would consolidate all your spellcasting to Wisdom as you primary stat and free up some stat boosts.
Oracle uses CHA, so the casting state is already the same. So no need to go Emperial, that'd just split my casting stat (and since I have an 11 wis, that would be painful).
*le sigh*
I should have known that a request to not get the thread bogged down in 'that is bad plan' arguments would be ignored.
I AM TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.
It's hard to take you seriously when you're screaming all the time.
LOOK, YOU NEED TO BE 4TH LEVEL WITH TWO CLASSES BEFORE YOU CAN QUALIFY FOR THE CLASS, THE 6 LEVEL SLOG IS DOABLE FOR A WIZARD-CLERIC/DRUID THEURGE BECAUSE YOU CAN GORGE YOURSELF ON VARIETY. GOING THEURGE WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF BEING ABLE TO LEARN ANY AND ALL OF YOUR CLASS'S SPELLS IS MORE BORING THEN PLAYING A FIGHTY. YOU HAVE ONLY ONE SECOND LEVEL SPELL UNTIL 9TH LEVEL, MULTI CLASSING DOES NOTHING TO HELP YOUR BLOODLINE ABILITIES.
Never said it would. As to the variety, anyone who's playing an oracle or a sorcerer, even straight, is less concerned about variety, and more concerned about spells per day. Dropping a pair of feats to boost my caster level means that while I won't have as many spells as I could have going straight, they'll be just as powerful as if I went straight in both. Then once the MT kicks in, I'll be gaining spells per day and spells known.
The slog, as you say, won't be a huge amount of fun, but by the same token, I will be able to basically toss off just about any spell in the game up to 4th level via wands, and up to 9th via scrolls or staves. I have no problem with keeping my versatility via equipment (wands or scrolls).
As an alternative to bard, consider the summoner. It doesn't help your skill points, but it does bring a better spell list. Reflavor your eidolon to be a smart *** hand that gets you out of trouble and you'd be all set.
LOL,
+1 Cupie Doll award for a Vampire D reference. :)
Oracle uses CHA, so the casting state is already the same. So no need to go Emperial, that'd just split my casting stat (and since I have an 11 wis, that would be painful).
Ah, yeah, forgot that one. So definitely scrap the Crossblooded idea.
Never actually played an Oracle, so forgive the oversight.Though as a flavorful twist you might go Sanguine to play off the vampire blood a bit more. It replaces Grave Touch, so no more scaring creatures by touching them, but you can drink blood to regain HP and it counts as eating a full meal, so no rations needed if your DM harps on things like that.
Just another thought. Again, not necessarily optimal, but definitely flavorful.
Oracle uses CHA, so the casting state is already the same. So no need to go Emperial, that'd just split my casting stat (and since I have an 11 wis, that would be painful).Ah, yeah, forgot that one. So definitely scrap the Crossblooded idea.
Never actually played an Oracle, so forgive the oversight.Though as a flavorful twist you might go Sanguine to play off the vampire blood a bit more. It replaces Grave Touch, so no more scaring creatures by touching them, but you can drink blood to regain HP and it counts as eating a full meal, so no rations needed if your DM harps on things like that.
Just another thought. Again, not necessarily optimal, but definitely flavorful.
Yep, that was the original idea. The only problem with it being that I have to dump a lot of gold and feats into overcoming spell failure. The advantage of the dirge bard was no spell failure for light armor (same for the arcane duelist bard). I can still drop a feat on the Heritage feat to gain the blood drinking ability to heal. I'm still toying with ideas, but so far it's either Sainguine Sorcerer/Metal Oracle, or Bard (Arcane Duelist or Dirge Bard)/Metal Oracle + Eldritch Heritage feat.
Well, there's always the Arcane Armor Training line, like you said in the OP. Unless you plan on Quickening spells down the line, you might not need the swift action for anything else anyway. Seeing as you'd meet the prerequisites just from having a level in Oracle, it wouldn't be horrendous. Combined with mithral, you could wear any medium armor in the game without spell failure.
Would that be too big of a feat tax?
Well, there's always the Arcane Armor Training line. Unless you plan on Quickening spells down the line, you might not need the swift action for anything else anyway. Seeing as you'd meet the prerequisites just from having a level in Oracle, it wouldn't be horrendous.
WITH THE BUILD HE'S PROPOSING HE NEEDS TO BE 16TH LEVEL BEFORE HE CAN QUICKEN A FIRST LEVEL SPELL, ARCANE ARMOR TRAINING IS FINE, I RECOMMEND PAIRING IT WITH CRAFTING ARMS AND ARMOR AS THE REAL BENEFIT IS PUTTING ALL SORTS OF RESISTANCES AND SKILL BONUSES INTO A ARMOR SLOT.
PASSIVE BONUSES LIKE IMPROVED INIT, TOUGHNESS AND SPELL FOCUS TEND TO TREAT A THEURGE BETTER THAN METAMAGIC.
If I end up going Oracle/Sorcerer, I'll probably take the AAT and AAM feats, for certain. If I go Bard/Oracle, then I'll skip them and instead take the 3.5 Armored Caster feat (the one that requires ability to cast in armor, and ups the level of the armor you can cast in).
Either way, I hadn't planned on taking any metamagic feats. I'll save that for rods if I need them.
I am going to take Craft Magic arms and Armor, as well as probably Craft Wondrous Item. Both feats work well with the build. Especially if I end up going bard, as that will give me plenty of skill points.
ARE YOU ALLOWED 3.5 FEATS? HOW ARE YOU SET UP FOR TRAITS?
PRACTICED SPELLCASTER (FROM 3.5) AND/OR MAGICAL KNACK HELP ALLOT WITH CASTER LEVEL. IF YOUR INTELLIGENCE IS NOT COMPLETELY IN THE TOILET I STILL STRONGLY RECOMMEND WIZARD OVER SORCERER, BUT ITS YOUR CROSS TO BEAR, YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT.
ARE YOU ALLOWED 3.5 FEATS? HOW ARE YOU SET UP FOR TRAITS?
PRACTICED SPELLCASTER (FROM 3.5) AND/OR MAGICAL KNACK HELP ALLOT WITH CASTER LEVEL. IF YOUR INTELLIGENCE IS NOT COMPLETELY IN THE TOILET I STILL STRONGLY RECOMMEND WIZARD OVER SORCERER, BUT ITS YOUR CROSS TO BEAR, YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT.
Stats are up above, as I said before, a 12 INT is not a wizard in the making. :) And yes, I'm planning on taking Practiced Spellcaster for both classes, whichever they end up being. A two feat tax to boost CL by 4 each is not at all a waste.
AM ADVISING YOU NOT TO DO IT, SINGLE CASTING ATTRIBUTE IS NOT WORTH A 4 LEVEL DIP. SORCERER ONLY A DECENT CLASS WHEN YOU CAREFULLY CHOOSE BLOODLINE POWERS AND BUILD ON THEM. THEURGY NOT PLAYING WELL WITH BLOODLINE POWERS. THEURGY NOT FOR HITTING, BARBAROANM FOR HITTING, THEURGY FOR BUFFING, DEBUFFING AND CHANGING REALITY TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS.
I... agree. If only because CHA-based spellcasters have such a slow spell progression. Especially bards. This sounds like a long hard road of suck to get to MT.
Perhaps it's petty, but the all caps things really bugs me. I get the irony of doing a STUPID BARBARIAN TALK FUNNY thing with a brainy class like Mystic Theurge. But that's a "funny once", or possibly a "funny twice." It's definitely not a "funny always".
Crafting feats are an excellent idea for this build -- not only will you be able to make stat boosters, but you'll also be able to make a really awesome sword. Once you reach mystic theurge levels, you'll need every point of enhancement bonus you can get to help compensate for the low BAB.
The tension between life/death divine/arcane gives you plenty of scope for character development. How do you see the PC's personality working out?
Agreed, I expect I'll be doing a lot of the enchanting for the group. The magus in the group (who has apparently worked out some sort of wyld magic effect with the GM, given that her magus accidently turned herself and an assassin into sheep when she used her ability to cast/stab at the same time) is unlikely to be an enchanter. And the ranger is not the right type of caster to do a lot of enchanting.
For personality, he's currently very reserved and serious (not unusual, given the back ground of being from a chinese culture). He has no inherent issues with either good nor evil (given his parentage, that's not a surprise). He doesn't have any issues with undeath, other than the fact other people do.
What he does have is a serious stick up his nether regions about honor. He's already made it clear he doesn't consider a duel a duel if someone is going to challenge and then use a 'champion'. He has no problem misleading his opponents, given that they prove themselves dishonorable first. For example, the city he's in is being fought over by Helm and Torm's churches. One of the churche's (Torm I believe) has already cursed the blade of an NPC who was dueling to help some 'indentured servants' win their freedom (really slaves, not indentured servants). He has no issues with indentured servants (slaves is another matter). He considers that dishonorable. They did it by putting a spy (street urchin they hired to stand watch) into their company. So him and the rogue are now bluffing their way through long discussions of the NPCs weaknesses in fights (actually his strengths) in front of the spy. If the enemy wishes to defeat themselves through dishonorable tactics, that is their own honor they are ruining.
Sounds like fun!
How does he feel about vampire spawn? They are arguably slaves, in that they cannot disobey their "parent" vampire, and rarely entered into a state of undeath voluntarily. Does he interpret that as a kind of indentured servitude in that they may eventually be freed by the death of their primary or by the creation of other newer spawn?
I've been playing him so far as having an asian vampire mother, which means it's a completely different mythos than the typical vampire in D&D. His mother isn't a former mortal who caught vampirism, she's a former mortal who was cursed by the demons in the afterlife, who then came back as a hungry undead. So she's lawful evil, with LN tendencies. His father is LN with LG tendancies.
So vampire spawn are not something he's ever encountered. Once he does, he's likely to consider western vampires as pathetic more than anything else. Willing Spawns he'd probably consider more indentured servants. From his mythos, being a vampire is not something anyone wanted, ever. It's a punishment for sins committed in life. So he'd consider Spawns to be slaves, unless he found out they did it willingly. In which case they're just stupid. :)
Stats are up above, as I said before, a 12 INT is not a wizard in the making. :) And yes, I'm planning on taking Practiced Spellcaster for both classes, whichever they end up being. A two feat tax to boost CL by 4 each is not at all a waste.ARE YOU ALLOWED 3.5 FEATS? HOW ARE YOU SET UP FOR TRAITS?
PRACTICED SPELLCASTER (FROM 3.5) AND/OR MAGICAL KNACK HELP ALLOT WITH CASTER LEVEL. IF YOUR INTELLIGENCE IS NOT COMPLETELY IN THE TOILET I STILL STRONGLY RECOMMEND WIZARD OVER SORCERER, BUT ITS YOUR CROSS TO BEAR, YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT.
HENCE THE CRAFT MISC MAGIC ITEMS, THE ABILITY TO LEARN ANY SPELL YOUR CLASS PROVIDES IS THAT IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY TO THEURGY. AND YOU HAVE A POSITIVE INTELLIGENCE BONUS IS GOOD ENOUGH. JUST DON'T FOCUS ON SPELLS THAT ALLOW A SAVING THROW.
Hm. Looking at the Bard archetypes you mentioned above, I'm not sure I'd prefer either of them over the Sanguine Sorc.
The best one is the Dirge Singer IMO, as this at least grants abilities that don't need to scale with levels to be useful. Unfortunately, it's best ability (Dance of the Dead) can't be used unless you dedicate 10 lvls to the class. Haunted Eyes and Secrets of the Grave add some nice resistance boosts and a decent ability independent of lvl tho. The ability to cast mind-affecting spells on undead creatures could play out nicely.
As for the Arcane Duelist, the only things I see that you will really get (without much extra investment past the requirements for MT) are Rallying Cry (Intimidate vs Perform to countersong a narrower list of effects), the free Combat Casting feat, and, well, that's it. I guess you could go for 5th lvl to get the arcane bonded weapon and bonus spell per day, etc. that accompany it, but that doesn't seem worth it unless you were already planning on taking that feat and focusing on Intimidate to begin with.
I'd still go Sanguine Sorc, tho. The better spell list and the one highly thematic ability alone lean me in this direction, and you can always take Use Magic Device with your high Cha, even if you don't get the +3 from having it as a class skill. Not to mention, the cold resistance and DR 5/- (even if it is just against nonlethal dmg) is pretty neat.
Hey Crafter,
Yeah, the big advantage of going Bard is three-fold. And none involve the actual class features of any archetype, so the specific archetype isn't important.
The first part is the skills that a bard gets, the actual skill points and the class skills.
The second part, and arguably the most important, is the ability to cast arcane spells in light armor (which means it's one feat to cast in medium, rather than 2 feats plus expensive items to do the same thing).
The third part is that the bard allows additional healing spells to be cast per day, just about doubling them actually.
I do like Sanguine for the thematics, and Dirge slightly less. But I can get the Sanguine blood drinking ability for the cost of one feat. I can't get the cast in medium armor with no ASF without spending a lot of money and two feats on it. :( Given the character is geared around being armored, that's a big part of his utility.
The fourth part is that it's a bard, and bards are awesome. Because they make everyone else awesome. Although I suspect this bard wouldn't be doing that so much. (Hence why I searched for a replacement to IC)
Hey Crafter,
Yeah, the big advantage of going Bard is three-fold. And none involve the actual class features of any archetype, so the specific archetype isn't important.The first part is the skills that a bard gets, the actual skill points and the class skills.
The second part, and arguably the most important, is the ability to cast arcane spells in light armor (which means it's one feat to cast in medium, rather than 2 feats plus expensive items to do the same thing).
The third part is that the bard allows additional healing spells to be cast per day, just about doubling them actually.
I do like Sanguine for the thematics, and Dirge slightly less. But I can get the Sanguine blood drinking ability for the cost of one feat. I can't get the cast in medium armor with no ASF without spending a lot of money and two feats on it. :( Given the character is geared around being armored, that's a big part of his utility.
The thing I'm seeing is that you will likely be spending two feats and getting expensive items anyways because either:
A) You go Bard, still need the Arcane Armor Mastery feat or mithral armor, plus the Eldritch Heritage feat to get the Sanguine bloodline power, and another feat if you want another power. Though, if bonus cure spells are going to be your forte, this might be the way to go. I by no means meant to say that this option is unworkable, just not my first choice.
B) You go Sanguine Sorc, and need both the Arcane Armor feats and mithral armor to disregard ASF for medium armor. And you get the bloodline powers, better spell progression, and meet the prereqs for MT one lvl earlier. But if you're more focused on the build than the spells, I can see where Haunted Eyes and Secrets of the Grave could draw you away from this option for flavor reasons, as you wouldn't be able to get them this way.
And as for expensive items, mithral is 4k, really not that much by the time you hit 6th-7th lvl.
Either way though, I'd probably try to get more Cure spells through summoned creatures. A number of them have access to Cure spells, and can cast them 2+ times for you without using up but one of your castings, not to mention the extra options they bring to the table both in and out of combat. Of course, that's just me.
Take what you like and disregard the rest.