damage occurs simultaneously and in discrete chunks in PF. it would trigger after the first attack resolves, but you'd take all the damage from that first attack.
damage occurs simultaneously and in discrete chunks in PF. it would trigger after the first attack resolves, but you'd take all the damage from that first attack.
Not according to Immediate Actions. Immediate Actions can be triggered by events like "I failed my save" (thus you take full damage or better... die) and still come BEFORE the result of that action actually affects you. Even if the effect already has "taken place".
As soon as you noted them down as damage taken on your character sheet the immediate action can't reverse them (heck there are even some that can do this ;) ). But as long as they are floating around in the room they can be negated.
Not according to Immediate Actions. Immediate Actions can be triggered by events like "I failed my save" (thus you take full damage or better... die) and still come BEFORE the result of that action actually affects you. Even if the effect already has "taken place".damage occurs simultaneously and in discrete chunks in PF. it would trigger after the first attack resolves, but you'd take all the damage from that first attack.
Yes, and you could argue that you could do it for after the attack roll and before the the damage. But you canot do it for during the damage. Once damage starts rolling and gets calculated you've missed the timing.
Yes, and you could argue that you could do it for after the attack roll and before the the damage. But you canot do it for during the damage. Once damage starts rolling and gets calculated you've missed the timing.Not according to Immediate Actions. Immediate Actions can be triggered by events like "I failed my save" (thus you take full damage or better... die) and still come BEFORE the result of that action actually affects you. Even if the effect already has "taken place".damage occurs simultaneously and in discrete chunks in PF. it would trigger after the first attack resolves, but you'd take all the damage from that first attack.
Thats wrong. Read some abilities/spells again. You will note that several will allow you to change the outcome AFTER the result is known. As long as the result hasn't taken place (you wrote it down) you can still change the outcome.
.
.
.
Contingency says you can tie it to conditions and it happens BEFORE the result of those. And taking damage is a valid condition for the spell.
Can you point to anything contradicting that rule? And I mean something more than the usual Rules as Wanted I encounter in here ;)
So here is the challenge! Lets see a caster with a single round do more damage than RAGELANCEPOUNCE.
A Few Rules:
No summons. This is your spell, not some one or something elses.
No party members: IE, no you can't summon AM BARBARIAN, cast bless, and count that for the win.
Familiars and Animal Companions are OK if you're casting a spell that is either self only or to deliver a touch attack.
Level 20.
Goal, Kill AM BARBARIAN or any other RAGELANCEPOUNCE user before they can hit you with damage excessive of RAGELANCEPOUNCE.
You have 1 round, you are 30ft apart from target, and you can only justify a 2nd round if you can viably survive RAGELANCEPOUNCE on the first round without disabling the target.
Currently, No 3.5 material, unless the build for RAGELANCEPOUNCE uses 3.5 material.
So, who can pull it off?
Summons are out, how about simulacra? Assuming you somehow got the jump on am, 'port or gate in 40 copies of yourself with detonate. He can't save for all of them. And saving takes half. Even assuming a ring of evasion, he can't save for all of them.
Even better, make it an alchemist with delayed consumption and amplify elixir for 15d8 instead of 10d8.
Thats wrong. Read some abilities/spells again. You will note that several will allow you to change the outcome AFTER the result is known. As long as the result hasn't taken place (you wrote it down) you can still change the outcome.
but you still cant say "after 3 of the 5 damage is dealt." its before or after the damage.
Contingency says you can tie it to conditions and it happens BEFORE the result of those. And taking damage is a valid condition for the spell.
really? i dont see that....at all. the spell gets cast based on a trigger, in order to trigger, the conditions must be met. if they dont, the trigger never happens. if you say "after i take 1 damage" it will trigger ONLY if you take EXACTLY 1 damage (lol). if the trigger is "when i take damage" then you take damage, then the spell goes off. simple.
Can you point to anything contradicting that rule? And I mean something more than the usual Rules as Wanted I encounter in here ;)
i dont see that rule, can you show me that rule?
So here is the challenge! Lets see a caster with a single round do more damage than RAGELANCEPOUNCE.
A Few Rules:
No summons. This is your spell, not some one or something elses.
No party members: IE, no you can't summon AM BARBARIAN, cast bless, and count that for the win.
Familiars and Animal Companions are OK if you're casting a spell that is either self only or to deliver a touch attack.
Level 20.
Goal, Kill AM BARBARIAN or any other RAGELANCEPOUNCE user before they can hit you with damage excessive of RAGELANCEPOUNCE.
You have 1 round, you are 30ft apart from target, and you can only justify a 2nd round if you can viably survive RAGELANCEPOUNCE on the first round without disabling the target.
Currently, No 3.5 material, unless the build for RAGELANCEPOUNCE uses 3.5 material.
So, who can pull it off?
Summons are out, how about simulacra? Assuming you somehow got the jump on am, 'port or gate in 40 copies of yourself with detonate. He can't save for all of them. And saving takes half. Even assuming a ring of evasion, he can't save for all of them.
Even better, make it an alchemist with delayed consumption and amplify elixir for 15d8 instead of 10d8.
Dude, is that your answer to everything, now? Suicide bombers?
Dude, is that your answer to everything, now? Suicide bombers?So here is the challenge! Lets see a caster with a single round do more damage than RAGELANCEPOUNCE.
A Few Rules:
No summons. This is your spell, not some one or something elses.
No party members: IE, no you can't summon AM BARBARIAN, cast bless, and count that for the win.
Familiars and Animal Companions are OK if you're casting a spell that is either self only or to deliver a touch attack.
Level 20.
Goal, Kill AM BARBARIAN or any other RAGELANCEPOUNCE user before they can hit you with damage excessive of RAGELANCEPOUNCE.
You have 1 round, you are 30ft apart from target, and you can only justify a 2nd round if you can viably survive RAGELANCEPOUNCE on the first round without disabling the target.
Currently, No 3.5 material, unless the build for RAGELANCEPOUNCE uses 3.5 material.
So, who can pull it off?
Summons are out, how about simulacra? Assuming you somehow got the jump on am, 'port or gate in 40 copies of yourself with detonate. He can't save for all of them. And saving takes half. Even assuming a ring of evasion, he can't save for all of them.
Even better, make it an alchemist with delayed consumption and amplify elixir for 15d8 instead of 10d8.
Touche.
Mister RageLancePounce.
...You win this round.
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Begun. The simulacrum wars. Have.
Hey hey hey, AM also frequently yells "Spell Sunder" as a strategy. That's 2 whole strategies right there.
Hey hey hey, AM also frequently yells "Spell Sunder" as a strategy. That's 2 whole strategies right there.
AM 200% MORE THAN 3.5 ED BARBARIAN.
3.5 Barbarians had a strategy?
Contingency is on a trigger, it is NOT A READIED ACTION. Readied actions go off BEFORE actions that trigger them, for COntingency the trigger must happen, THEN the spell goes off, i.e. the gun must be fired. RA's go off before the gun fires.
Trinam has it aright for the damage condition above. The spell is going to react to damage dealt to you, a change in your condition. It is not going to react to the 'potential' of damage being dealt...that's not a condition. And it can't react in time to stop a triggering effect..the trigger has to happen, not be about to happen.
Being AWARE of something is not a valid trigger condition. That's a mental state. It's not a condition as the game recognizes such. I'm not even sure the spell would react to the suprised condition, because that would mean it could tell when you were and weren't aware of stuff, which is getting into AI COntingency again.
Making an expression like 'oh, poop' is going to incite all sorts of hilarities when you step in horse manure, or other unintentional timing.
The personal range restricts the spell to things that actually happen to you and can be quantified. 'Reading' an attack roll is not personal, even if directed at you...can the spell do so from an archer 1000' away? Seems like it.
Contingency, again, is not nearly as powerful or versatile as many mages seem to believe it is.
==Aelryinth
Hey hey hey, AM also frequently yells "Spell Sunder" as a strategy. That's 2 whole strategies right there.
K. Chuck bombs at it til it's dead in addition to "I run up to you and asplode".
So here is my interpretation of what would happen if Alienfreak were to use his wording for contingency.
Alienfreak: "I'm going to take care of that pesky barbarian ONCE AND FOR ALL!"
Alienfreak waits in a field in full view to ambush AM BARBARIAN
AM BARBARIAN sees Alienfreak and begins RAGELANCENOPOUNCE
Alienfreak remembers he forgot to ready an action and also realizes that he is going second in the initiative
Alienfreak: "Oh poop"
Contingency does not go off
Alienfreak gets RAGELANCENOPOUNCED and takes damage
Contingency goes off
Alienfreak's dead carcass is teleported back to his sanctuary
Alienfreak's clone awakens
Alienfreak: "BLAST! Back to the drawing board."
Begun. The simulacrum wars. Have.
Bah, I posed a simulacrum Alchemist destruction to AM a long time ago and the only response was "you can't scry me!"*.
So I pick up a 17th level wizard cohort, and get him to cast Discern Location, and Vision to get within striking distance and take him down with my Simulacrum army. Goodbye Jedi.
Leave it to the light side of the force to be slow on the uptake.
*actual response may or may not have anything like this.
Thats wrong. Read some abilities/spells again. You will note that several will allow you to change the outcome AFTER the result is known. As long as the result hasn't taken place (you wrote it down) you can still change the outcome.
but you still cant say "after 3 of the 5 damage is dealt." its before or after the damage.
Contingency says you can tie it to conditions and it happens BEFORE the result of those. And taking damage is a valid condition for the spell.
really? i dont see that....at all. the spell gets cast based on a trigger, in order to trigger, the conditions must be met. if they dont, the trigger never happens. if you say "after i take 1 damage" it will trigger ONLY if you take EXACTLY 1 damage (lol). if the trigger is "when i take damage" then you take damage, then the spell goes off. simple.
i dont see that rule, can you show me that rule?
Can you point to anything contradicting that rule? And I mean something more than the usual Rules as Wanted I encounter in here ;)
1. I don't want to wait until a fraction of the damage is being dealt. There is no such thing as fractional damage in D&D.
I wait until he rolls his result and THEN BEFORE ANYTHING IS DEALT.2. Wait what?
EVERYTHING that happens is a potential condition for contingency.
Or show me a part of contingency or any other relevant rule section that supports your Rules as Wanted interpretation of "conditions that may trigger a contingency"
3.
The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being "cast" instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when triggered. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.
Do you see any restriction to the CONDITIONS!? No? Me neither. So unless you can come up with anything contradicting this I would say we stop the discussion here because it clearly says I can choose a condition (somebody would deal more than x damage to me) and the contingency IMMEDIATLY BRINGS INTO EFFECT THE COMPANION SPELL (in this case Teleport) and teleports me away before the lance (or whatever) hits me.
More stuff with a heap of rudeness.Kindly state anywhere in Contingency where it allows the spell to identify an attacker.
Kindly state the RANGE at which it may make this identification.
Kindly state how it differentiates a charging orc from a charging mosquito (for the guy with the wall of force idea, although he can't tie it to a wall of force).The spell is not operating off YOUR INTELLECT. It is NOT a readied action! Quit treating it like one! It responds to something that happens to you AFTER the effect!
2) Teleport to an open area you CANNOT SEE. Sure, straight up in an open field, you're good. But you can't 'port in a thousand feet over magnimar...and so you can't do it to Batty Bat in motion.
3) Oh, you now Shrodinger'd your own spell turning, ignoring the fact that two Spell Turnings set up a resonance field to, um, nasty effect. Good show there. And he can be sitting right next to where you pop out of the Maze, which is not a good place for you to be. If he's 10' away, he can charge, and you've got a standard action to take while inside his reach to try and get away.
4) Exactly how big do you think a Sphere of Annihilation is? There are no 'auto-kills' in Pathfinder. If he saves, he pops up next to it. You still have to touch him with it. And he can have a ready action to charge or move when he gets out as you attempt to control the sphere.
Plus, it's a minor artifact, and not eligible for this competition as outside the purchase limits. If you can fiat a Sphere, he can fiat a Rod of Absorption to counter it and mess you up at the same time.5) Waves of Exhaustion - you now know it won't work, but not why, how, or the limits thereof, unless you are metagaming. He could be a horizon walker with a level in Desert.
And sure, it's gotten your mage out of all sorts of trouble, but that 'trouble' wasn't AM BARBARIAN. Trite tactics won't work on him.
==Aelryinth
1) Kindly state WHY it can't?
Quote from the spell description;
"You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect UNDER SOME CONDITION YOU DICTATE when casting contingency."
"In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” INSTANTANEOUSLY when the prescribed circumstances occur."
I dictate what the conditions are ("If any melee attack is INITIATED against me....") and unless AM BARB's charge is instantaneous, it goes off first.
This clearly invalidates your contention here, assuming you are using logic that is....read the spell and stop making stuff up about it!
2) Even under 'Seen Casually' everything but 'Mishap' puts me a very short distance away from the several hundred feet straight up I have designated - allowing me to act. I'll take those odds with a grin - as would anyone teleporting into open sky with the extremely high likelihood of not hitting a floating castle or passing hippogriff....
3) How is he going to be 'sitting next to me' several hundreds of feet in the air hmmmm?
4) 'Purchase limit' - what ARE you talking about? Besides - he or part of him appears INSIDE it. Try using a Rod after some or all of you has been instantly consigned to oblivion!? Additionally - THERE.... IS.... NO.... SAVE against a Sphere's effects. Read the description or quote it or something, because you keep insisting this mythical save is going to save him....
5) So? I use something else from my safe vantage point in the sky - fine with me....
'Trite' tactics won't work on him? How does my tactic to deal with melee 'silly or commonplace'? What kind of campaigns do you play in??? - there are no fleshed-out epic levels in PF....
1. I don't want to wait until a fraction of the damage is being dealt. There is no such thing as fractional damage in D&D.
I wait until he rolls his result and THEN BEFORE ANYTHING IS DEALT.2. Wait what?
EVERYTHING that happens is a potential condition for contingency.Or show me a part of contingency or any other relevant rule section that supports your Rules as Wanted interpretation of "conditions that may trigger a contingency"
my misunderstanding - i thought you were arguing that there was fractional damage (which i was arguing against, poorly, because someone had previously made that claim) and that the contingency would come in to effect before damage was dealt, assuming the trigger was "i take damage," both of which are wrong.
you still cannot separate "an attack roll beats my AC"and damage without an exception specifically stating so. it doesn't matter if after the roll you TP away, you still take the damage after the fact.
If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.
the roll beat AC, so you take the damage no matter where you are, RAW. also note that "hit" and "deal damage" occur simultaneously, so you cannot trigger between the two.
"If any melee attack is INITIATED against me...."
this works fine, though.
1. I don't want to wait until a fraction of the damage is being dealt. There is no such thing as fractional damage in D&D.
I wait until he rolls his result and THEN BEFORE ANYTHING IS DEALT.2. Wait what?
EVERYTHING that happens is a potential condition for contingency.Or show me a part of contingency or any other relevant rule section that supports your Rules as Wanted interpretation of "conditions that may trigger a contingency"
my misunderstanding - i thought you were arguing that there was fractional damage (which i was arguing against, poorly, because someone had previously made that claim) and that the contingency would come in to effect before damage was dealt, assuming the trigger was "i take damage," both of which are wrong.
you still cannot separate "an attack roll beats my AC"and damage without an exception specifically stating so. it doesn't matter if after the roll you TP away, you still take the damage after the fact.
If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.
the roll beat AC, so you take the damage no matter where you are, RAW. also note that "hit" and "deal damage" occur simultaneously, so you cannot trigger between the two.
"If any melee attack is INITIATED against me...."this works fine, though.
RAW on that or no more discussion.
There are so many abilities that are immediate actions and change the outcome of skill checks, saves, hits, damage dealt AFTER the result is known that I doubt you need "special skillz" to do so. It seems to me like an Immediate Action is after all an Immediate Action and can happen at any time and interrupt any action.
There are even abilities around that can change you being dead or ANY ROLL (d20) being made.
So if those abilities can, why can't contingency. Because you dislike it?
I could even set as a condition as God X on his home realm farts.
Per RAW you don't have to know about the occurance and it doesn't have to detect it through any divination magic. A thing happens and my contingency reacts to it.
...but the raw was included in the post?
I guess that means no more discussion, since the raw isn't raw.
...but the raw was included in the post?
I guess that means no more discussion, since the raw isn't raw.
Dead
When your character's current hit points drop to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score or lower, or if he succumbs to massive damage, he's dead.
So you hit the 1hp rogue, roll 20 damage and that is more than his 14 con. all happens at the same time he is dead.
BUT WAIT
He uses his resilency as an IMMEDIATE ACTION (which can happen at ANY time) and still has 1 HP left and is still standing. How did this happen? Everything happened at the same time and yet he still could interrupt it with his IMMEDIATE ACTION.
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And I am not sure whether you are pretend or whether you really don't get the problem. Where is stated that you CANNOT INTERRUPT things that happen in a chain. Like Failed save -> you take x damage. Like Getting hit for x damage -> you take x damage.
Btw. what does "If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage. " mean in this context?
Nothing. You roll To Hit and Damage. And deal it (if nothing prevents you from it). Its just a text saying that if you hit a target you hit it and deal damage. What else should they write? If you hit a target you don't deal damage? But you do... wait...
Its a general rule explaining how combat works. You roll to hit and if you do you apply your damage to the target. Nowhere it states that this happens at the same time nor does it say it cannot be interrupted.
The rogue activates resiliency after she drops to 0 or below hit points and is no longer dying. Dying is a condition where your characters hit point total is negative but not equal to or greater then your constitution score. So the rogue takes the damage then activates the ability outside her turn sequence.
Contingency reacts to the wizard being hit with the lance by teleporting the wizard outside their turn sequence after the damage has occurred.
In both cases the immediate action allows you to do something outside your turn thats what an immediate action does. However it does not occur before the rogue is below 0 hit points or before the wizard is hit.
...but the raw was included in the post?
I guess that means no more discussion, since the raw isn't raw.
Dead
When your character's current hit points drop to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score or lower, or if he succumbs to massive damage, he's dead.
So you hit the 1hp rogue, roll 20 damage and that is more than his 14 con. all happens at the same time he is dead.
BUT WAIT
He uses his resilency as an IMMEDIATE ACTION (which can happen at ANY time) and still has 1 HP left and is still standing. How did this happen? Everything happened at the same time and yet he still could interrupt it with his IMMEDIATE ACTION.
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.And I am not sure whether you are pretend or whether you really don't get the problem. Where is stated that you CANNOT INTERRUPT things that happen in a chain. Like Failed save -> you take x damage. Like Getting hit for x damage -> you take x damage.
Btw. what does "If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage. " mean in this context?
Nothing. You roll To Hit and Damage. And deal it (if nothing prevents you from it). Its just a text saying that if you hit a target you hit it and deal damage. What else should they write? If you hit a target you don't deal damage? But you do... wait...Its a general rule explaining how combat works. You roll to hit and if you do you apply your damage to the target. Nowhere it states that this happens at the same time nor does it say it cannot be interrupted.
So what you're saying is if I use Ice Walk I can never be hit?
The rogue activates resiliency after she drops to 0 or below hit points and is no longer dying. Dying is a condition where your characters hit point total is negative but not equal to or greater then your constitution score. So the rogue takes the damage then activates the ability outside her turn sequence.
Contingency reacts to the wizard being hit with the lance by teleporting the wizard outside their turn sequence after the damage has occurred.
In both cases the immediate action allows you to do something outside your turn thats what an immediate action does. However it does not occur before the rogue is below 0 hit points or before the wizard is hit.
Resilency activates between You get damage -> You are dead. While there is no time between those two things occuring. Just like rolling damage and applying it to the opponent.
Both happens at the same time according to the rules.
I think the confusion is in the difference between the condition dying and the character going through the process of dying and thus being dead. People can get messed up because the rules terminology is used alongside more literal plain speak terminology often. Like immediate and immediate action or instantaneous spell duration versus instantaneous in the normal sense.
I think the confusion is in the difference between the condition dying and the character going through the process of dying and thus being dead. People can get messed up because the rules terminology is used alongside more literal plain speak terminology often. Like immediate and immediate action or instantaneous spell duration versus instantaneous in the normal sense.
If you do get 20 damage while being at 0 HPs you are dead if you have only 14 Con.
And Resilency lets you use it once you would be brought below 0 HPs as an immediate action.If you are brought below -Con you are dead. There is no time in between getting damage and being dead.
Yet the ability can in between things that happen at the same time (killing you and you being dead) and reverse the outcome of it.
Resiliency: : Once per day, a rogue with this ability can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the rogue's level. Activating this ability is an immediate action that can only be performed when she is brought to below 0 hit points. This ability can be used to prevent her from dying. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute. If the rogue's hit points drop below 0 due to the loss of these temporary hit points, she falls unconscious and is dying as normal.
If you check out Pathfindersrd dying is a link to the condition. The talent doesn't bring the rogue back to life it brings the rogue back to consciousness. I mean the talent would be allowing the rogue to take an action while dead if we interpreted it your way. And I believe we have been told a few times that even though the core rule book doesn't specifically say so you can't take actions while dead.
1) Kindly state WHY it can't?
Quote from the spell description;
"You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect UNDER SOME CONDITION YOU DICTATE when casting contingency."
"In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” INSTANTANEOUSLY when the prescribed circumstances occur."I dictate what the conditions are ("If any melee attack is INITIATED against me....") and unless AM BARB's charge is instantaneous, it goes off first.
This clearly invalidates your contention here, assuming you are using logic that is....read the spell and stop making stuff up about it!
2) Even under 'Seen Casually' everything but 'Mishap' puts me a very short distance away from the several hundred feet straight up I have designated - allowing me to act. I'll take those odds with a grin - as would anyone teleporting into open sky with the extremely high likelihood of not hitting a floating castle or passing hippogriff....
3) How is he going to be 'sitting next to me' several hundreds of feet in the air hmmmm?
4) 'Purchase limit' - what ARE you talking about? Besides - he or part of him appears INSIDE it. Try using a Rod after some or all of you has been instantly consigned to oblivion!? Additionally - THERE.... IS.... NO.... SAVE against a Sphere's effects. Read the description or quote it or something, because you keep insisting this mythical save is going to save him....
5) So? I use something else from my safe vantage point in the sky - fine with me....
'Trite' tactics won't work on him? How does my tactic to deal with melee 'silly or commonplace'? What kind of campaigns do you play in??? - there are no fleshed-out epic levels in PF....
1) You can dictate all the conditions you want, but that does NOT mean the spell can recognize them.
I can initiate a Melee Attack against you from ACROSS THE PLANET. A Mosquito can initiate a melee attack against you. A tick on your skin can initiate a melee attack against you.Your Contingency does not have AI and is not a Readied Action. It has no way of determining if SOMEONE ELSE'S action is going to affect you...that's predicting. COntingency reacts to something that does happen. You're once again trying to give it predictive abilities. The spell has no way of determining who or what is initiating an attack, nor who that attack is aimed at.
It is NOT a readied action.
2) A chunk of air is not visible at all. You can't 'see' a space of air relative to the other spaces around it. Dimension door works because you just put distance and vector in, and you can do the same with line of sight. One space of air is exactly as invisible as every other space of air once you leave line of sight.
3) Because he can FLY?
4)A sphere of annihilation is a Minor Artifact. It has no price. Everything works when you ignore WBL.
5) Exactly how do you know that he's going to pop up in exactly the space the sphere occupies? It's not like you can roll to hit him before he pops up. Maybe he sees it as he's materializing and jerks out of the way. It's not an auto kill unless it touches him, and there's nothing that says its an autokill.
6) Except your 'safe' vantage point has AB sitting right next to you on his flying bat. It's not safe in the slightest. ANd the funny thing is, with 10-20' reach, he can threaten you AND charge you at the same time.
'Trite' means it always works against everyone, and nobody evolves to overcome it...'I always use this tactic because this tactic always works' is trite.
==Aelryinth
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2) A chunk of air is not visible at all. You can't 'see' a space of air relative to the other spaces around it. Dimension door works because you just put distance and vector in, and you can do the same with line of sight. One space of air is exactly as invisible as every other space of air once you leave line of sight.
While the rules for conjurations do say that creatures summoned or teleported to your location must appear on a solid surface, they make no mention of such a requirement if the caster is teleporting himself. Per RAW, you can teleport to empty air.
If the rogue dies or not is besides the point in either case the immediate action occurs after the trigger not before. Also note that dying and death are two separate states a character can be in if death happens and dying does not, you cannot activate the ability since you are already dead. You go immediately from positive 20 to negative 20 and you have a con score of 10 you have just died you cannot activate resiliency since the point at which you met the pre requisite is the exact same point you entered the state dead. Step up for example allows you to follow a foe that moves away you do not move before the foe, contingency allows you to activate the spell as soon as the trigger occurs not before if the trigger is a word your spell activates when you say the word not before you do.
As to resiliency look interpret how quickly damage occurs as you will, you still need to meet the condition, you do not gain the temporary hit points before you are hit.
If the rogue dies or not is besides the point in either case the immediate action occurs after the trigger not before. Also note that dying and death are two separate states a character can be in if death happens and dying does not, you cannot activate the ability since you are already dead. You go immediately from positive 20 to negative 20 and you have a con score of 10 you have just died you cannot activate resiliency since the point at which you met the pre requisite is the exact same point you entered the state dead. Step up for example allows you to follow a foe that moves away you do not move before the foe, contingency allows you to activate the spell as soon as the trigger occurs not before if the trigger is a word your spell activates when you say the word not before you do.
As to resiliency look interpret how quickly damage occurs as you will, you still need to meet the condition, you do not gain the temporary hit points before you are hit.
Its not about Resilency as a whole... when it applies... when not...
Its just to show that immediate actions can occur between two events (conditions) which appear to happen at the same time because they are chained by the rules.
Yes immediate actions can occur between events feather fall is an excellent example you cast it on a character after they start falling but before they hit the ground. If you have contingency set to immediately cast a spell when you take damage you have already taken the damage it does not retroactively change the past.
I pointed out the resiliency example because the talent has no text indicating it grants you temporary hit points before you activate it.
Anyway I have derailed this enough I will restrain myself from further posts.
So the contingency could be if you are touched by the endpoint of a lance, before it penetrates your armour?
in game terms that is the same thing as being attacked, but before you are hit. in effect, you TP away on contingency and are never hit. hit= damage happens=skewered. the attack role determines the outcome of the attack, not the process.
the issue is that neither contingency or teleport prevent damage in any way, and being hit/taking damage is tied to the success of the attack roll, and nothing else. so...the attack roll is successful, you TP away, then take the damage and die wherever you are. it doesn't matter if you are far away from the attacker to PF, and nothing is *preventing* that damage (distance is irrelevant). in order for this approach to work, you have to be out of range of the attack *before* the attack roll is made, thus making it impossible for the attack roll to even occur. perhaps there is a spell that prevents damage that would work, but TP doesn't. you can also have something trigger when you are "hit," but damage is assigned at the same time, so you still do not escape your fate.
the simple contingency "when i am attacked" works perfectly well. triggers after the attack action is taken, but before the roll, and -zip- off you go. AFIK there are no rules for mosquitos, so you dont have to worry about odd triggers unless the town fool is keen on throwing tomatoes at the local uber caster.
in game terms that is the same thing as being attacked, but before you are hit. in effect, you TP away on contingency and are never hit. hit= damage happens=skewered. the attack role determines the outcome of the attack, not the process.
the issue is that neither contingency or teleport prevent damage in any way, and being hit/taking damage is tied to the success of the attack roll, and nothing else. so...the attack roll is successful, you TP away, then take the damage and die wherever you are. it doesn't matter if you are far away from the attacker to PF, and nothing is *preventing* that damage (distance is irrelevant). in order for this approach to work, you have to be out of range of the attack *before* the attack roll is made, thus making it impossible for the attack roll to even occur. perhaps there is a spell that prevents damage that would work, but TP doesn't. you can also have something trigger when you are "hit," but damage is assigned at the same time, so you still do not escape your fate.
the simple contingency "when i am attacked" works perfectly well. triggers after the attack action is taken, but before the roll, and -zip- off you go. AFIK there are no rules for mosquitos, so you dont have to worry about odd triggers unless the town fool is keen on throwing tomatoes at the local uber caster.
Where do you always have that from? You always treat your addiction for unrealism as RAW.
To hit roll = Getting a swing in the direction of a creature and or into weak spots of the armor
DMG roll = where exactly it will strike plus the kinetic energy combined with the shape of the weapon
How much damage something will deal is decided before it will actually hit.
Just use a bullet. What calibre is it? What kind of round is it? On what path does it travel? At what speed does it travel?
You cannot tell me that the damage a bullet does is decided once it has traveled through your body.
If you know the parameters you can clearly say what damage it will deal BEFORE it strikes.
So you cannot tell me that an attack that will severely damage you (a charge attack with a greataxe coming for the head) will be indistinguishable from someone hitting the caster with a pillow?
Please note at this point that a two handed fighter specializing in improvised weaponry could be hitting with that pillow for d4 + 8 + 2x str + 5 with GMW with a 19-20/x3 crit.
Pillows are scary.
Please note at this point that a two handed fighter specializing in improvised weaponry could be hitting with that pillow for d4 + 8 + 2x str + 5 with GMW with a 19-20/x3 crit.
Pillows are scary.
I doubt that would look alike a normal Pillow coming for you...
Its like saying a Hanker Chief can't harm you... just accelerate it to 10km/s and it will instantly obliberate you.
But I'd say that looks a lot unlike someone throwing a hanker chief into your face...
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Please note at this point that a two handed fighter specializing in improvised weaponry could be hitting with that pillow for d4 + 8 + 2x str + 5 with GMW with a 19-20/x3 crit.
Pillows are scary.
I have my blanky. I'm not scared of pillows.
EDIT: I may have to make my own barbarian, who specializes in RAGEPOUNCEPILLOWFIGHT.
Wait... So your argument that if you get hit in the face with a lance or pillow you can teleport away and somehow not be hit in the face ( despite the fact that being hit was the trigger for the TP) is less realistic than my determination that if a lance hits you in the face it will hurt? Um.....I'm confused..... And what is the rest of the post about? Bullets? Pillows? I dont get it.
What I do get is that if you are hit in combat you take damage as part of that hit. If you do not get hit, because you are not there to be hit, then there is no damage to take.
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Wait... So your argument that if you get hit in the face with a lance or pillow you can teleport away and somehow not be hit in the face ( despite the fact that being hit was the trigger for the TP) is less realistic than my determination that if a lance hits you in the face it will hurt? Um.....I'm confused..... And what is the rest of the post about? Bullets? Pillows? I dont get it.
What I do get is that if you are hit in combat you take damage as part of that hit. If you do not get hit, because you are not there to be hit, then there is no damage to take.
The argument was that because there are some abilities and spells (see paladin's sacrifice, among others) that are immediate actions that retroactively change the outcome of events, a properly-worded contingency should be able to do the same thing, as its activation is essentially the function of an immediate action.
The argument was that because there are some abilities and spells (see paladin's sacrifice, among others) that are immediate actions that retroactively change the outcome of events, a properly-worded contingency should be able to do the same thing, as its activation is essentially the function of an immediate action.
Paladin'S Sacrifice is actually a superb example.
1. Attack hits
2. Damage gets rolled
3. You know the result (how many damage you will receive)
4. Paladin can interrupt the successful attack on you and transfer the damage to him.
According to the logic most people in here it would have to be
1. Attack hits
2. Paladin can interrupt the attack now and not later otherwise the damage will get dealt to the target and not to him
3. damage gets rolled
4. you know the result
if he has a specific ability that alters/prevents damage, then that will work. i have not seen anything like that paired with contingency throughout the course of this discussion, however, nor have i seen any evidence that teleport cant prevent damage from a hit that has already been dealt.
also, i dont find them particularly compelling as precedent because they are specific (class) rules, and thus exceptions to the rule.
the trigger could be "when i am attacked" what's wrong with that? no lawyering necessary.
So, let me get this straight. Just because ONE spell out of the hundreds out there that exists allows you to do roughly exactly what you want it to do, contingency should work the same? Paladin's Sacrifice is an outlier to the every other spell of it's kind (protection).
RAW for attacks and damage state that if you hit, damage is rolled. To me, and maybe this is just my interpretation, but once it's rolled it's final. There are very few instances where one could say "Wait, my contingency happens" and the way you worded it is not one of those. As funnymouth is saying, you teleport does not stop the damage, once hit and you take ANY damage from that hit, you take all of it.
Lastly, I find it oddly amusing that you are using real world examples for why this SHOULD work when earlier you were dismissing real world examples for something AM BARBARIAN was trying to do.
i disagree, you can get 4x 40d6 maxed and empowered disintegration rays in one round. i think that has the potential to out damage rage lance pounce.
Might I ask how you're getting 4?
Without Twin Spell or Split Ray or something, both 3.5 stuff, I'm not seeing it.
If you can get even 3 Maxed ones, however, you've tied him in dmg on the charge..but your version gets a Fort save.
==Aelryinth