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I don't think its fair to restirict Racial boons for nonstandard races to conventions. Some loyal PFS players cannot attend conventions do to real life reasons. This promotes unequal gaming something that IMO the DEVS are trying to avoid. Perhaps the Nonstandard raical boon could be placed in some of the newer senarios.
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I don't think its fair to restirict Racial boons for nonstandard races to conventions. Some loyal PFS players cannot attend conventions do to real life reasons. This promotes unequal gaming something that IMO the DEVS are trying to avoid. Perhaps the Nonstandard raical boon could be placed in some of the newer senarios.
"It's not my fault I can't go to a major convention."
I see.
Tell me, was it "your fault" that you couldn't GM a session of the Beginner Box Bash, 2 weeks ago in your local store? Because if you had, you would have got a Tiefling or Dhampir Race race boon from that.
So you didn't need to go to a convention to get that.
In fact, people who spent a thousand bucks (or often more) to go to Gencon or Paizocon earlier this year didn't get the option for a free Raise Dead boon for PFS just for playing in a demo -- but players who showed up to a Beginner's Box Bash at their local store 2 weekends ago did.
So your premise that this is available only at conventions is, without putting too fine a point on it -- not only wrong, but DEAD wrong.
Secondly, and more importantly, conventions are a major marketing venue for PFS and people spend a fair bit of money to go to them, They DESERVE to get something special for going to Gencon or Paizocon or some other large regional convention. If your real life circumstances prevent you from doing so -- then they do. But that's not Paizo's fault, is it?
Wherever did you read that gaming stuff was available to people based upon how much they liked something, and not upon how much money they had? Because that would sure as hell be NEWS to me.
In the end, there are all kinds of things in life where money gives you things. It lets you buy more gaming stuff, go vacation in nicer places, drive a nicer car, live in a better house and attract the company of women who are probably more attractive than you deserve to be dating, etc..
That's just reality. We can debate the fairness of it at another time, but there isn't any debating that's the world in which we live.
Seeing as the boons at the Beginner Box Bash addressed this (and probably overcompensated, if anything) I don't see how you've got much to actually complain about.
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I would expect Once Advanced Race Guide comes out the races available with the boons at the lease will be authorized for PFS play.
Keeping them rare at this point to test them out is not a bad idea.
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I would expect Once Advanced Race Guide comes out the races available with the boons at the lease will be authorized for PFS play.
Keeping them rare at this point to test them out is not a bad idea.
Quite true. At that point, my fear is that we won't be able to sit at a table without the Pathfinder Society be overrun with races that will completely change the flavor of the play experience in OP. Too much, I expect.
Frankly, I hope non-standard races are STILL reserved as a boon only to players who complete a retirement scenario with their characters. At least make people earn it somehow.
Otherwise, all of these non-standard races are going to overrun PFS tables all at once. We can do without that, imo. 4 Dhampirs at the table is far more of a downer to my enjoyment of PFS than any re-skinning of a +1 flaming sword into a light sabre is likely to do.
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Quite true. At that point, my fear is that we won't be able to sit at a table without the Pathfinder Society be overrun with races that will completely change the flavor of the play experience in OP. Too much, I expect.
I expect it to happen shortly at my PFS game. 5 of my Players plus myself have the Boons. I have 2 From GenCon and the 5 players plus myself have 1 from the Beginner Bash.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I agree with Steel Wind on this one, I really hope they don't open up PFS to every race in the ARG (even though some of the write ups are mine!). I do think it would be neat if there were a one time boon which allowed people who purchased the book to play one of the alternate races though.
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I went to Gencon this year and played 9 out of 10 slots of PFS. I didn't earn one racial boon. Where's my racial boon b&~+%es?!? :)
As Steelwind already noted, you could also get them locally (without the crappy random chance I had and without doing anything "special", like spending hundreds of dollars to go to Gencon). I wish I knew about the local one, I might have made an effort.
Anyway seriously, where do people get this idea of entitlement? That they don't have to make any effort and they should get everything that everyone else has.
Don't worry, we're going to get our silly advanced races 5 months from now and everyone can run around being "unique". Hope they're balanced.
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The Beginner Box Bash! demos are truly awesome to play in their own right, regardless of any boons. I was genuinely surprised how much fun could be packed into each one-hour demo.
There are still opportunities out there to catch the Beginner Box Bash! Contact your local game store or Venture-Captain - if there's enough demand, I'm sure they'll run it again.
I just got home from running another Bash! today as part of (inter-) National Gaming Day @ Your Library (Sat 12 Nov 2011), which attracted a whole group of players who'd never played Pathfinder, or even an RPG, before! Of course, new players are the main purpose of Beginner Box demos. It was a great day!
Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)
Pathfinder Society 4-Star GM
Venture-Captain, Australia
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Quite true. At that point, my fear is that we won't be able to sit at a table without the Pathfinder Society be overrun with races that will completely change the flavor of the play experience in OP. Too much, I expect.I expect it to happen shortly at my PFS game. 5 of my Players plus myself have the Boons. I have 2 From GenCon and the 5 players plus myself have 1 from the Beginner Bash.
meh... I hate sitting with anyone playing humans. PFS is finally looking like the groups I like to play in
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I was unaware of the Racial Boon for running the Beginner box bash. I would have run it had I known it. Though The senario we ran 2 weeks ago was really good though.
Perhaps the Devs could write a unique 3 part senario and put several diffrent boons in it that are randonly awarded.
I also think the Devs should add diffrent kinds of boons to high tier senarios because most of the treasure on high tier just plain sucks
I have only seen on item that is more than +3 a great ax that one of my characters met personaly which was quite fun and almost deadly. Steelwind if you have a problem with that talk to Azmeth I have a good conversation with him about the treasure on high tier chronoicle sheets.
I have never seen a Rod or staff on any high tier chronicle sheet or say a depleted 4th level wand.
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I agree with Steel Wind on this one, I really hope they don't open up PFS to every race in the ARG (even though some of the write ups are mine!). I do think it would be neat if there were a one time boon which allowed people who purchased the book to play one of the alternate races though.
Dennis,
I said a similar thing also. When the ARG gets out the PFS folks should limit the alternate races to one PFS Character Boon per player. Basically you can have an ARG race but only one active at any one time.
This would be a specific boon. Every player that already recieved a Race boon could keep any races they got at the cons prior to the release of the ARG.
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It would be interesting to see a race statistic for PFS. I see mainly humans being played. I would expect above 80 % are human. I don't want to down play it perhaps more. If allowed I still expect to see a tendancy of players choosing humans. Playing by the rules of the standard race boons a player needs the book. In that end it should be an enforced rule. New book for paizo to sell, great. Organized play is great how it stands. Don't like the idea of not getting a racial boon, volunteer. I volunteered for the bash not knowing what type of boon may been given out.
Racial boons are I think one of the better recent tools for PFS the idea of getting new characters started superb.
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I don't think its fair to restirict Racial boons for nonstandard races to conventions. Some loyal PFS players cannot attend conventions do to real life reasons. This promotes unequal gaming something that IMO the DEVS are trying to avoid. Perhaps the Nonstandard raical boon could be placed in some of the newer senarios.
If you really see this as a big problem, I suggest you speak to your VC about it. Maybe he already has an event lined where you might get your hands on a racial boon, or maybe will think of planning one seeng there is a demand for it.
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I was unaware of the Racial Boon for running the Beginner box bash. I would have run it had I known it.
I believe the boons were meant as a "Thank You" to those playing and running the Bash and not as an enticement. We were asked not to reveal exactly what the boons were so that participants would be surprised when they saw what the boons were.
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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If I were a betting man I would have no great hesitation in putting the mortgage on all of the boon races being made PFS legal once we get our sweaty hands on the ARG. I too hope that it doesn't take away PFS's flavour we can only trust that Mike will keep us on an even keel on this matter.
As far as I know and in these parts I try to make it my business to know about PFS stuff, there were no official bashes at all. I have mentioned becoming registered with Paizo to one of the owners of the biggest local games shop, local in the sense that no international borders need be crossed to get there but so far while not adverse to the idea nothing has happened. Annoying as if it had been run I am pretty sure yours truly would have been the first one to GM. C'est la vie!
Actually on that note: please remember when penning your replies to this type of thread that despite being a two star GM and pushing PFS play as hard as work and family commitments will allow, I have found it is quite easy to find oneself out of the loop when it comes to these kind of opportunities. As the ARG is coming ( ready or not!!) I am happy to wait but having been at different times in my life, both the guy who was able to travel to far away cons to get cool LG ARs and the guy who needs to keep a tight grip on post credit crunch finances, it sucks if the really nice stuff is only ever available to the lucky few. (even if that cool stuff means returning home explaining that a celestial template was forced upon my familar toad....)
W
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I would agree with the lack of opportunity for the Beginner Box scenarios. There was zilch in my area and Paizo never provided any information (that I saw) regarding ordering the scenarios for the demo. Russell ran them in Cincy, but that is an hour and a half away. I couldn't see driving to play and potentially take a spot away from someone who was new to PF and there was no call for GM's.
I think Paizo dropped the ball on that, although it could be more of a reflection of how active the VC's are outside their "home" area. In my case, it's another example of how people who were able to attend major cons or who have live in areas with active VCs are ahead of the game. That is not conducive to the long term success of PFS.
(And just to forestall all the people who say that I should volunteer as a VC to make things happen - I'm going on 2 1/2 years without a job. My savings are going to living expenses and attending Gen Con and Paizo con are not financially doable).
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I would agree with the lack of opportunity for the Beginner Box scenarios. There was zilch in my area and Paizo never provided any information (that I saw) regarding ordering the scenarios for the demo. Russell ran them in Cincy, but that is an hour and a half away. I couldn't see driving to play and potentially take a spot away from someone who was new to PF and there was no call for GM's.
I think Paizo dropped the ball on that, although it could be more of a reflection of how active the VC's are outside their "home" area. In my case, it's another example of how people who were able to attend major cons or who have live in areas with active VCs are ahead of the game. That is not conducive to the long term success of PFS.
(And just to forestall all the people who say that I should volunteer as a VC to make things happen - I'm going on 2 1/2 years without a job. My savings are going to living expenses and attending Gen Con and Paizo con are not financially doable).
Just looked it up, the original blog announcing the bash said: "Additionally, if you’re a game store owner, or want to get your local game store involved in the Beginner Box Bash, there’s still time! Please contact your regional Venture-Captain for details." The same quote is on the beginner bash page. That was Oct 20th, 9-10 days before the event - and I saw a bunch of locations get added after that blog went live, and I know there were places that don't have active VCs in them that ran.
I don't know what to tell you other than you could have talked to a more local store and then contacted Russ to get the scenarios. This wouldn't have taken any more financial commitment then printing out the scenarios and boons.
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Hi sieylianna,
I know that VCs worked hard to have the Bash! run at as many locations as possible, as well as distribution via the store retailer program.
Many overseas locations have only just started receiving Beginner Boxes on store shelves, so they may be running delayed Bashes! Several VCs are also planning to run the Bash! at upcoming conventions and other gamedays. I myself ran the Bash! again last weekend at National Gaming Day @ Your Library.
If you want to play the Bash! and your local game store has table space for gaming, ask if they'll run a Beginner Box Bash! to demo Pathfinder for their customers. They'll need to sign up for an account on the Paizo retailer page to receive PDF downloads, so encourage them to sign up if they haven't already.
Alternatively, enquire with your nearest Venture-Captain, as they may already be planning a Bash! at an upcoming convention or gameday, or know someone who can run one in your area.
I'd imagine there'll be a need for further Bashes! after people have unwrapped their Beginner Boxes over Christmas!
Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)
Pathfinder Society 4-Star GM
Venture-Captain, Australia
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Remember, the Beginner's Box Bash was a launch event for the *Beginner's* Box - we didn't want it to become all the same people who already play PFS lining up just to get a boon. Now that the word is out, anyone can run them, and they will be available for a while. If you GM four sessions (not even four different ones, but four 1-hour demo sessions) with some new players, you get the GM boon.
In Winnipeg, we'll be re-running the Bash over the coming months, and ran it at JimCon last weekend. The raise dead boon turned out very useful for the fallen in "Blood Under Absalom" that night...
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stuff
I don't think we need to come down so hard on someone for their opinion on this. Steel Wind is right that some of these items are available without going to a convention, but most of them are not - so the OP is not "dead wrong" - in fact, they're mostly right.
I can see the OP's point: PFS works very hard to keep everything on a "level playing field" with special rules and restrictions, and having limited-access races flies in the face of that. Saying that one needs to spend more money to have the same access to all of the game features... what is this, a trading-card game all of a sudden?
I can't believe this post hasn't been removed based on its tone, frankly.
EDIT: fixed typo.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Saying that one needs to spend more money to have the same access to all of the game features... what is this, a trading-card game all of a sudden?
Scott, if I want to sit at your table with my Tengu Witch/ Samauri/Eagle Knight that has Belier's Bite, I need to bring legitimate copies of those referenced books (either the books themselves, or watermarked PDFs). I might have been able to borrow all of them, but I probably had to buy them.
So, even if a player obtains the Grave-blooded boon, she has to buy at least the PDF (or borrow a copy of Bestiary 2) of the Dhampyr's stats before she can play the character. Pathfinder Society has always been a pay-for-more-access organization.
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Saying that one needs to spend more money to have the same access to all of the game features... what is this, a trading-card game all of a sudden?Scott, if I want to sit at your table with my Tengu Witch/ Samauri/Eagle Knight that has Belier's Bite, I need to bring legitimate copies of those referenced books (either the books themselves, or watermarked PDFs). I might have been able to borrow all of them, but I probably had to buy them.
So, even if a player obtains the Grave-blooded boon, she has to buy at least the PDF (or borrow a copy of Bestiary 2) of the Dhampyr's stats before she can play the character. Pathfinder Society has always been a pay-for-more-access organization.
I'll agree with Chris and Steel Wind here, and add that every hobby is a "pay for additional access" hobby. I cannot think of one hobby or game that doesn't make you pay more for more.
I can see the OP's point: PFS works very hard to keep everything on a "level playing field" with special rules and restrictions, and having limited-access races flies in the face of that. Saying that one needs to spend more money to have the same access to all of the game features...
Time is money. If you don't want to spend the money to go to a con and get a boon, then spend the time; wait until Advanced Races comes out. Then you can have all the same races as everyone else.
Your trading card game analogy is a false one. No one got anything more powerful out of a Con-granted boon than those that don't go to cons. They got something different and faster, but still balanced. Should people who spend time, money and energy NOT be rewarded in some small, fair and balaned manner?
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I agree with the OP here for the most part and I am shocked at the apparent animosity involved in some of the replies to his queries.
People need to understand that not everyone can afford the luxury of traveling hundreds if not sometimes thousands of miles to go to conventions. Not only that but while they might be able to afford it, their job may not allow it or even something important came up like a funeral or something.
Not everything is as cut and dry as people are implying it in this thread and instead of stepping on toes which some have here, why not just be more supportive and while you may not agree stop with the better then thou attitudes that are showing here (I am "not" singling everyone out here but you know who you are I hope).
My opinion is that it is not that fair that seemingly mostly just cons are getting the specials that are being ran for the most part. The Beginners Box bash was also implied as "Beginner" to PFS and to the game itself. Unless a player is running the event it is not likely that they are going to play for the most part. Now notice I said not likely, I know some that have played that have played as long as I have almost and had fun, but that does not mean they played it for any other reason then to get a friend or kid in to the game. So saying that they should have played in the Beginners box bash is not truly fair either. It is not an event where one would expect a boon or even a chronicle sheet for that matter.
This is a society for gamers folks.. why can't we all get along and state our opinions in a polite constructive manner??
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I'll agree with Chris and Steel Wind here, and add that every hobby is a "pay for additional access" hobby. I cannot think of one hobby or game that doesn't make you pay more for more.Saying that one needs to spend more money to have the same access to all of the game features... what is this, a trading-card game all of a sudden?Scott, if I want to sit at your table with my Tengu Witch/ Samauri/Eagle Knight that has Belier's Bite, I need to bring legitimate copies of those referenced books (either the books themselves, or watermarked PDFs). I might have been able to borrow all of them, but I probably had to buy them.
So, even if a player obtains the Grave-blooded boon, she has to buy at least the PDF (or borrow a copy of Bestiary 2) of the Dhampyr's stats before she can play the character. Pathfinder Society has always been a pay-for-more-access organization.
PFS should NOT be part of this type of format though. It has never been touted as such and no where in the players guide to organized play does it state as much either. If you can find where it does in the handout please show me where??
PFS is meant to be free to play for the most part and yes conventions charge and should because they are expensive to implement and host. But that does not mean that PFS should charge for being played too.. with the exception of having to buy the scenario's, that is the ONLY pay to play it should be in my opinion.
Thanks! :)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Hey there, Deanoth!
The question I'd like to raise is whether that Tengu Witch/ Samauri/Eagle Knight is a better character, or a more fun character, than an all-core Half-elf Ranger/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight? I'm hoping we can say that such is not necessarily the case. Weirder, sure. More attractive to some players, yeah. But each of us can play a great character, throughout its entire career as an active Pathfinder in PFS OP, using nothing but the core resources.
Racial boons (and boons that provide minor enhancements to your existing PC, like Demonslayer, Extra Trait, or Free Vanity) are attractive, and if they're advertised ahead of time serve as an incentive to get people to conventions, where people can get fired up about the Society, where they can meet new friends, and where they can learn cool new things to bring back to their home groups.
If a boon serves as a reward, then I think we're being smart by using them to reward two things we want to encourage:
- a dyed-in-the-wool Pathfinder fan coming to a convention and sharing her enthusiasm with new people, and
- a gamer with multiple interests choosing to spend his or her valuable convention time playing PFS as opposed to D&D 4th Ed, or Magic: the Gathering, or any one of a hundred other gaming opportunities.
Some players just can't get to a convention. We're a hobby, and people might justifiably prioritize other areas of their lives to spend time and money. Contrariwise, some players would be attending conventions and playing PFS OP without a boon. But if those little scraps of paper are going to be an incentive, then they have to be valuable, and it has to be the case that some people are going to want them, but not have them.
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PFS should NOT be part of this type of format though. It has never been touted as such and no where in the players guide to organized play does it state as much either. If you can find where it does in the handout please show me where??
PFS is meant to be free to play for the most part and yes conventions charge and should because they are expensive to implement and host. But that does not mean that PFS should charge for being played too.. with the exception of having to buy the scenario's, that is the ONLY pay to play it should be in my opinion.
Thanks! :)
Right on the first page, during the book assumption. It's assuming you have paid for a CRB. That's paying right there. If you want to use ANYTHING outside of that, it also states you are to have a copy of it on hand when you play. Once again, paying for more content.
PFS has never been Free to Play. I spend $4-8 every month just on the scenarios for my players. Not to mention any prep materials to make it really shine. Minis are expensive, and my metals take time, money, and supplies to paint.
PFS is far from a free to play game, it in my fiance's opinion is a very expensive hobby, and she cringes when I ask to do anything PFS related, because she knows we're dipping into our finances, but she lets me because she loves me, and supports my love of my hobby.
Edit: This all doesn't include time GM's put in to making their sessions extra awesome. I know one GM who came to U-Con had spent 20 hours making a 3D dungeon. Now if time is money, and assuming he makes an avg. US per capita wage of $20 (According to the social security website), then he spent $400 in time to make that crowd pleaser of a 3D map.
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While I can see how it may seem unfair that con-goers have access to special boons, I don't agree that it is unfair. As has already been stated, this is the PFS con-goer's reward for attending the con and spending their time on PFS.
And as has also already been noted, they are getting something special but no more or less effective that anything from the core rules. The tengu already cited; is that really going to work any better than a dwarf or human? Will it help a player "win" PFS better? No, of course not. It is just different. No one is depriving PFS players who can't make it to cons of anything. Heck, the last time I was at GenCon was two years ago. The time before that? 1996. I know what it is like to be isolated from these major conventions, believe me.
But that doesn't stop me from enjoying PFS. And Paizo does provide options for people that want special boons right in their home town (the Beginner Box Bash already mentioned is a good example).
The fact is, scarcity makes these boons valuable, and the races allowed by them interesting. Without that scarcity, we might as well just allow everyone to play everything and see how interesting things are then. There is already an organized play system that follows that model, and I haven't found anywhere near as much fun with it as I have PFS. Of course, ymmv.
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Last month I ran PaizoConOz in Brisbane. More than half those attendees travelled in from Canberra, Darwin, Melbourne, Sydney, Townsville, and elsewhere around Australia.
Any of those could have asked "why should I spend airfare, accommodation, leave from family/study/work to attend when I can play these same scenarios back home?"
I didn't advertise boons prior to the event, they were a surprise reward for those who supported the convention, and they were very appreciated.
Different racial boons have now appeared at Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney conventions - Australia's three largest cities - so the majority of Pathfinders around the country have had an opportunity to receive a racial boon without travel expenses if they support their local cons.
Does this cover everyone? Sadly, no. I would like to see increased PFS activity around Australia, so that players can reap rewards at cons in their area too.
I suspect this is a similar situation in the USA, some areas are well catered with PFS running in local stores and conventions, whereas other areas may be relative black-spots, but I have seen PFS well-supported among some relatively small populations, all it needs is a dedicated GM or organiser to get it off the ground.
Contact your nearest Venture-Captain, and let them know your situation, and whether there's anything they can do to help. Sometimes neighbouring players aren't aware of each other, or there may be a local convention that hasn't been widely promoted, or maybe they can help you organise an upcoming gameday (eg, Beginner Bash or Free RPG Game Day etc).
Cheers,
Stephen (DarkWhite)
Pathfinder Society 4-Star GM
Venture-Captain, Australia
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It's amazing how black and white some people portray this as. I don't wish to turn this into an argument for or against the free market system, so I'll leave with three points.
1. Buying a $50 book to gain additional content is not anywhere near the same scale as going to a large convention.
2. Race is the most basic defining characteristic of a character. Access to new races is HUGE to many players.
3. A tengu may not be more effective or help you "win" PFS, but it may let you get out of the rut of playing core races and keep you interested in the game.
Regardless of how you personally come down on this, all I ask is that we please try and treat PFS members and their questions with more respect that was in evidence in this thread.
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Time is money. If you don't want to spend the money to go to a con and get a boon, then spend the time; wait until Advanced Races comes out. Then you can have all the same races as everyone else.
Your trading card game analogy is a false one. No one got anything more powerful out of a Con-granted boon than those that don't go to cons. They got something different and faster, but still balanced. Should people who spend time, money and energy NOT be rewarded in some small, fair and balaned manner?
A. By the time the Advanced Race book comes out, I will have only a handful of PFS modules to play. Sure I can put DM credit towards those new race characters, but I'm not going to be able to play them. So waiting does me no good.
B. The effort to increase interest by offering the boons is backfiring in some instances because you can have been playing PFS since day 1, but if you weren't at Gen Con (or the handful of privileged cons which received boons), you're out of luck. In my PFS group, most of the others have attended more cons than me lately due to my finances. However, none of them has ever seen anyone receive a boon. So it is looking like the availability of boons is limited to an "old boys network" of cons and game days. That is not a situation which will help PFS grow over time.
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A. By the time the Advanced Race book comes out, I will have only a handful of PFS modules to play. Sure I can put DM credit towards those new race characters, but I'm not going to be able to play them. So waiting does me no good.
B. The effort to increase interest by offering the boons is backfiring in some instances because you can have been playing PFS since day 1, but if you weren't at Gen Con (or the handful of privileged cons which received boons), you're out of luck. In my PFS group, most of the others have attended more cons than me lately due to my finances. However, none of them has ever seen anyone receive a boon. So it is looking like the availability of boons is limited to an "old boys network" of cons and game days. That is not a situation which will help PFS grow over time.
I think these are two points, while very valid and I don't want to invalidate your feelings on this, are very one-sided and brings in the air of entitlement feeling to me.
Point A: The book is coming and so are more scenarios. It isn't as though Paizo is going to stop producing PFS scenarios once the book comes out. You'll have plenty of opportunity to play the new races.
Point B: Any convention coordinator, big or small, regional or local, can email Mike (from my understanding) and receive boons for their convention. If you go to something local and there are no boons then that is the fault of the coordinator for not taking advantage of this opportunity for their players. Using the "privileged cons" analogy to me is wrong and that is where the entitlement air comes from.
I think the "backfiring" you speak of is more disgruntlement of not being in a position to obtain one of the boons. Going to a convention is a commitment -- to the con, to the players, to the coordinator, and it can be a huge commitment or a small one depending on how you go about about doing it. Going to a convention doesn't always mean that you have to spend 2 months paychecks to attend and enjoy yourself. There are options with most conventions that help lessen the cost of going.
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A. By the time the Advanced Race book comes out, I will have only a handful of PFS modules to play. Sure I can put DM credit towards those new race characters, but I'm not going to be able to play them. So waiting does me no good.
From looking at your play and GM history, you have most modules and a ton of scenarios you still have not played or GMed. I'm unclear why this is a problem?
B. The effort to increase interest by offering the boons is backfiring in some instances because you can have been playing PFS since day 1, but if you weren't at Gen Con (or the handful of privileged cons which received boons), you're out of luck.
I have yet to have this reported as a problem. Can you point me in the direction of someone that is affected by this instance?
So it is looking like the availability of boons is limited to an "old boys network" of cons and game days. That is not a situation which will help PFS grow over time.
This is the farthest from the truth and I am kind of offended you would even suggest some sort of "old boys network." If this was the case, the southeast, especially Atlanta, would have received far and away more than anyone else since that is my old stomping grounds as a Venture-Captain. In reality, besides the Beginner Box Bash, the southeast has received exactly 2 special race PFS boons, and neither of those were anywhere in Georgia. I have sent out special boons to all 43 conventions (including the one for South Carolina), from 6 tables to 75+, that requested them in the five weeks I have been at Paizo. If your convention didn't receive them, then your convention coordinator didn't request them. I've been very available to try and support as many conventions as possible around the world. In addition, I, and the Venture-Captains (including your VC), worked with all 86 stores that requested the Beginners Box Bash. I can only offer help when it is asked for. To insinuate something otherwise is pretty low handed.
I know for a fact in the region where you usually play, the Beginner Box Bash was offered in at least 7 locations within a 100 mile radius.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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This is the farthest from the truth and I am kind of offended you would even suggest some sort of "old boys network." I have sent out special boons to all 43 conventions, from 6 tables to 75+, that requested them in the five weeks I have been at Paizo. If your convention didn't receive them, then your convention coordinator didn't request them. I've been very available to try and support as many conventions as possible around the world. In addition, I, and the Venture-Captains (including your VC), worked with all 86 stores that requested the Beginners Box Bash. I can only offer help when it is asked for.
Not to sound like I am coming to the defense of Paizo, but what Mike said is true.
I coordinate for anywhere from three to four conventions a year, all small and all local, and I've done this for going on three years now. Our biggest convention this year had 40+ players, while our smallest had 12+ players. For all of them I received scenario support from Paizo, and for the last (the only one after GenCon), I received Boon Chronicle sheets. All it took me was an e-mail to Mike... and all of this I received WAY before ever being offered a position as a Venture Lieutenant.
There is (to my knowledge) no "old-boys" network; I'm still very new to Organized Play coordinating and I learn something new on how to do that better every day. I am definitely not any part of a "network", except the help of the other VCs and VLs who give me advice on how to make something I love even better.
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This is the farthest from the truth and I am kind of offended you would even suggest some sort of "old boys network." I have sent out special boons to all 43 conventions, from 6 tables to 75+, that requested them in the five weeks I have been at Paizo. If your convention didn't receive them, then your convention coordinator didn't request them. I've been very available to try and support as many conventions as possible around the world. In addition, I, and the Venture-Captains (including your VC), worked with all 86 stores that requested the Beginners Box Bash. I can only offer help when it is asked for.Not to sound like I am coming to the defense of Paizo, but what Mike said is true.
I coordinate for anywhere from three to four conventions a year, all small and all local, and I've done this for going on three years now. Our biggest convention this year had 40+ players, while our smallest had 12+ players. For all of them I received scenario support from Paizo, and for the last (the only one after GenCon), I received Boon Chronicle sheets. All it took me was an e-mail to Mike... and all of this I received WAY before ever being offered a position as a Venture Lieutenant.
There is (to my knowledge) no "old-boys" network; I'm still very new to Organized Play coordinating and I learn something new on how to do that better every day. I am definitely not any part of a "network", except the help of the other VCs and VLs who give me advice on how to make something I love even better.
If there is an "old boys' network" I want to complain about the name
... I'm a girl ... and I have...
boons
(perverts)....
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Canadian Maplecakes
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Let me start by bragging - I'm currently sitting on three racial boon chronicles, documents I will likely never use.
Now, let me elaborate.
I love GMing at events. GMing at something like GenCon, or PAX, or even local events (like one we had last weekend here in Winnipeg), is a blast for me. I don't come to these events seeking extra treasure, but instead come to meet with friends, play games, and have a good time. For a lot of people this is an investment of time and resources into a hobby they love. That being said, as people have already mentioned here - the more time/resources invested, the better the gain.
At PAX, players had to run through 5 Beginner Box style delves (in fact they were the progenitors of the current Beginner Box modules) in order to get a racial boon. This meant that only players who played through at least 5 hours of Pathfinder were given this boon. Of those, I gathered less than 10% were existing PFS players, and those that were spent 5 hours running modules that didn't give any Society credits aside from the racial boon. This means that the majority of players who received the boon were new players who could go down to their local PFS group and already have something cool to get them involved with the local gamers.
At both GenCon, PAX, and my local convention, GMs were given a specialty racial boon. This was to reward GMs who were willing to not only GM for players, but do so in a convention style environment, which is often a lot more hectic and loud than normal settings.
I personally think that the distribution of these boons has been calculated, so as not to cause the Society to run rampant with all new races all at once. Honestly, considering the upcoming release of Advanced Races and the assumed PFS changes, I would be more worried about the free Eastern Weapon Proficiency feat handed out at GenCon this year when it comes to balance :P
Does it suck that some people who can't make it to these events lose out? Of course.
Is it good that Paizo is rewarding GMs and players who invest more time into the hobby in order to help it grow? Certainly!
Heck, I wish I could transfer all of my earned racial boons to all my other local GMs, who spend week after week putting in their time and effort without even getting the enjoyment of playing!
Anyways, that be my 2.33 cents.
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funny canadian stuff ;)
Dont worry about the racial boons. Soon there will be real cash for play options brought out to empty Thurstys pockets.
Like Erik Mona cool points for 25 dollars a pop. For 25 dollars Erik will print a chronicle that says you character is awesome and cool. Multiple ones stack.Ah, but seriously Thursty you are cool and awesome, I had a blast running delves at PAX with you and everyone there.
-daniel
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People need to understand that not everyone can afford the luxury of traveling hundreds if not sometimes thousands of miles to go to conventions. Not only that but while they might be able to afford it, their job may not allow it or even something important came up like a funeral or something.There is a point that I think is getting lost here.
Anyone can work with a gaming store to run a beginner box event. If someone wanted they could set up one for next week at the store closest to them they could. This, hopefully, would not require traveling hundreds of miles or spending large amounts of money. It is an option that is available now to anyone who wants to make it happen. One would just need to make it happen.
The reaction that I believe is surfacing with this thread is centered around attitudes of entitlement. If you organize events this is something that you will encounter. If you just play it is less likely that you will be aware of it. I am not saying that the OP or posters in this thread are taking an "I am entitled" position. It is just that after a while of working to make sure this great and grand hobby of ours stays vibrantly living ones nerves can get rubbed completely raw by people who feel that they are owed something.
I am not sure where you are getting the "Entitlement" theory from. I most certainly do not feel I "deserve" a boon nor do I necessarily want one. But to be fair when it they are only for the most part offered at special conventions and such, why would not someone feel left out then? Feeling left out is not a sense of entitlement.
If fairness makes me have a sense of entitlement in someone else's eye then so be it. I just am saying that not everyone is able to make it Gen Con or Paizo Con. Entitlement can go both ways by the way. Just because someone DOES go to one of those conventions does it mean that you "deserve" it more then others because you made it there and others did not?
Yes I know that someone can run the Beginners box set if they want to... but as a GM you can't take a boon according to the rules of the Players Guide so again no boon.
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PFS should NOT be part of this type of format though. It has never been touted as such and no where in the players guide to organized play does it state as much either. If you can find where it does in the handout please show me where??
PFS is meant to be free to play for the most part and yes conventions charge and should because they are expensive to implement and host. But that does not mean that PFS should charge for being played too.. with the exception of having to buy the scenario's, that is the ONLY pay to play it should be in my opinion.
Thanks! :)
Right on the first page, during the book assumption. It's assuming you have paid for a CRB. That's paying right there. If you want to use ANYTHING outside of that, it also states you are to have a copy of it on hand when you play. Once again, paying for more content.
PFS has never been Free to Play. I spend $4-8 every month just on the scenarios for my players. Not to mention any prep materials to make it really shine. Minis are expensive, and my metals take time, money, and supplies to paint.
PFS is far from a free to play game, it in my fiance's opinion is a very expensive hobby, and she cringes when I ask to do anything PFS related, because she knows we're dipping into our finances, but she lets me because she loves me, and supports my love of my hobby.
Edit: This all doesn't include time GM's put in to making their sessions extra awesome. I know one GM who came to U-Con had spent 20 hours making a 3D dungeon. Now if time is money, and assuming he makes an avg. US per capita wage of $20 (According to the social security website), then he spent $400 in time to make that crowd pleaser of a 3D map.
Other then the books (which is needed to play the game too and not "just" PFS all the other stuff is optional as a "Player" Miniatures, the Cool 3D model you spoke of, maps and the like are all options and not needed to play PFS. I have seen people show up with Dice for their characters on the table and when I give them a mini from my stash to play they still insist on using the dice as a marker for their characters.
So yes while some of the stuff you mentioned such as the books and mini's and such.. some are optional. The books are needed to play the game as much as it is used to play PFS. While some just play PFS and not any type of home game I do not consider this as part of PFS as a "Pay to Play" aspect. The scenarios as a GM and coordinator are needed and cost money, yes they do, but again as a player they do not pay for this. The coordinator, store, convention, or even PFS in general pays for this (or the GM does). Again not pay to play.
While the story about time being money with the 3D model is admirable but really does not apply as it is something that is not needed in the game to be done to play the game at all. Keep in mind GM's love to make their time at the table to be extra special for both them and the players (me included as a GM). These GM's go the extra mile to do so... but it is not a requirement and as such they take that in to their own account for what they spend as it is not part of the PFS but part of their own playing style.
I happen to like my races non-standard in most games, because I'm tired of seeing Humans, Elves and Dwarves everywhere. That's why I played Horde in World of Warcraft, and that's also why one of my main ideas is an Aasimar Ranger, along with some homebrew races. Sadly, I dunno what this whole racial boon thing is , but from what I do get, I don't like the sound of it at all. Also, you can't blame someone for being unable to attend a con, but you can't blame the people arranging it either.
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Some (not all) of the posters who feel that the boons are unfair come across as saying, "I can't have them, so nobody should". This is where the perception of entitlement comes from.
Honestly, the alternate races are easily available, in varying levels of financial commitment.
1/ At conventions. Not just big conventions, but any convention with a certain level of PFS involvement. The price is not set by PFS, but by the con.
2/ Store Play. If you are lucky enough to be near a store that has sufficient table space to match the number of sessions/day that a convention can do, I'm sure that the store co-ordinator could apply for & receive boons for their players. Price set by the store, but often free.
3/ Game Days. Like store play, a game day co-ordinator could apply for the race boons if they have a sufficient level of sessions running. Game days sometimes charge admission, but are usually cheaper than cons, and often free.
4/ As mentioned above, thru the Beginner Box Bash.
And lastly, there is the pending release of the Advanced Race Guide. I'm like many others who would prefer to not see a huge upswing in the number of non-core races. However, Paizo has consistently supported PFS with their new releases, and vice-versa, so I'm sure that we will see at least some new options become available when that book comes out.
Beyond that, I'm sorry, but things are unlikely to get any more fair in this imperfect world.
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funny canadian stuff ;)Dont worry about the racial boons. Soon there will be real cash for play options brought out to empty Thurstys pockets.
Like Erik Mona cool points for 25 dollars a pop. For 25 dollars Erik will print a chronicle that says you character is awesome and cool. Multiple ones stack.Ah, but seriously Thursty you are cool and awesome, I had a blast running delves at PAX with you and everyone there.
-daniel
I would pay $25 for that
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Can we please let this issue rest? I accept that there is a minority, albeit vocal, that dislike the boons. That's fine, we get it. But I am 100% confident that it is not going to change. There will be times when the society does not do everything 100% the way you want it to. There are a few things I would do differently if it was all about me. But, once I have voiced my opinion, and perhaps followed that with a strong rebuttal, I accept the ruling. Continuing to complain about it, or resurrecting the complaint every month or so, and it starts to sound like whining and you lose credibility, or at minimum, people who care about what your saying.
Mike, and the society leadership, respects your feedback, but in this case, we feel that the society is better for having the rewards. However, no matter how you present it, when you boil it down to the simplest of terms, it just sounds like entitlement. You may not intend it that way, but perception is reality.
The VAST majority of players have been in favor of these, even in cases where they were unable to earn one despite attending an event where they were offered. I have not encountered a single player with a negative opinion regarding this issue. Having attended two regional conventions, GenCon, and GameDays across three different regions in the past four months, I believe I have a large enough sample from which to draw some conclusions.
More opportunities will be available where you can earn one (or more) boons. My advice is contact your local Venture Captain or retail outlet and see what can be arranged. As Mike said, ask and you shall receive. If you don't want boons, that is okay too. Be happy for those who have them.
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Canadian Maplecakes
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funny canadian stuff ;)Dont worry about the racial boons. Soon there will be real cash for play options brought out to empty Thurstys pockets.
Like Erik Mona cool points for 25 dollars a pop. For 25 dollars Erik will print a chronicle that says you character is awesome and cool. Multiple ones stack.Ah, but seriously Thursty you are cool and awesome, I had a blast running delves at PAX with you and everyone there.
-daniel
Oh that's hogwash! ... ... .... .... *Starts writing his request email to Erik for Mona Boons.*
Thanks a lot Daniel, it was so awesome to come out and get in touch with other GMs who were so passionate about the hobby! :)