Abilitiy modifiers

[Badaboum]

For special abilities like the Cleric Channel Energy or Domain Powers or the Barbarian rage that can be used a number of times per day + ability modifier, does negative modifiers count? For example, a Cleric can Channel Energy 3+Charisma modifier times per day. If he has a Charisma of 6, can he use it 3 times per day or only 1?

It seems quite obvious to me that negative modifiers shouldn't apply (otherwise a cleric with a Charisma of 5 gets no channel energy at all...), but I can't find it stated anywhere.

Please clarify for me :)
Thanks

[ern2112]

Badaboum wrote:

For special abilities like the Cleric Channel Energy or Domain Powers or the Barbarian rage that can be used a number of times per day + ability modifier, does negative modifiers count? For example, a Cleric can Channel Energy 3+Charisma modifier times per day. If he has a Charisma of 6, can he use it 3 times per day or only 1?

It seems quite obvious to me that negative modifiers shouldn't apply (otherwise a cleric with a Charisma of 5 gets no channel energy at all...), but I can't find it stated anywhere.

Please clarify for me :)
Thanks

I would tend to agree with you about this. Would not take a negative. Curious to see what others say though

[Kyras Ausks]

It dose apply, most of the time it tells you get a minimum of 1

[ern2112]

Kyras Ausks wrote:

It dose apply, most of the time it tells you get a minimum of 1

Hmmm. Ok....I think this fella is looking for documentation about this. Any idea where he might find it?

[Martin Kauffman 530]

It seems logical that both negative and positive modifiers should count. It also works to prevent/lessen one stat being deliberately sacrificed to enhance another during the process of character creation.

[gravalpea]

Kyras Ausks wrote:

It dose apply, most of the time it tells you get a minimum of 1

I agree with this. Also, since the game does differentiate between bonuses and penalties, if an ability doesn't specifically call out one or the other, I would say you apply whatever modifier you have to said ability, for better or worse.

[Badaboum]

If I asked the question, it is because there is no "minimum of 1" in the rule. Now, it may not make much sense to create a Cleric with a Charsma of 5, but if we apply negative modifier to the 3+, it means such a Cleric will not have any Channel energy ability at all, which doesn't make much sense either. So, I'd like to know if the creators of the game really intended to make it impossible to channel energy with a low Charisma or if they meant 3+bonus (so a minimum of 3) times per day.

[Grick]

Badaboum wrote:

For special abilities like the Cleric Channel Energy or Domain Powers or the Barbarian rage that can be used a number of times per day + ability modifier, does negative modifiers count?

Determine Bonuses: Each ability, after changes made because of race, has a modifier ranging from –5 to +5.... A positive modifier is called a bonus, and a negative modifier is called a penalty."

Channel Energy (Su): "A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier."

Rage (Ex): "Starting at 1st level, a barbarian can rage for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + her Constitution modifier."

If negative modifiers (penalties) did not count, the ability would state bonus, not modifier.

[Jiggy]

Badaboum wrote:

So, I'd like to know if the creators of the game really intended to make it impossible to channel energy with a low Charisma or if they meant 3+bonus (so a minimum of 3) times per day.

That's like asking if they really meant for a cleric with a 9 WIS to not be able to cast any spells.

Yes, a low CHA really does inhibit your use of a CHA-based ability.

[Ultradan]

I agree with the majoraty... You count the negatives.

Of course you wouldn't create a Cleric with 5 of wisdom. But say your cleric of 16 wisdom gets a disease that is is slowly drainning his wisdom. At first, he won't be able to cast his most potent spells. Then, at some point, he wouldn't be able to cast at all.

Better get that disease checked out.

Ultradan

[Zaister]

You can tell when they want you to add negative ability modifiers by the use of the word modifier. If it is intended to only add the modifier if it is positive, the wording usually refers to an ability bonus. Most of the time these kind of abilities also specify "minimum 1".

[LazarX]

Grick wrote:

Badaboum wrote:

For special abilities like the Cleric Channel Energy or Domain Powers or the Barbarian rage that can be used a number of times per day + ability modifier, does negative modifiers count?

Determine Bonuses: Each ability, after changes made because of race, has a modifier ranging from –5 to +5.... A positive modifier is called a bonus, and a negative modifier is called a penalty."

Channel Energy (Su): "A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier."

Rage (Ex): "Starting at 1st level, a barbarian can rage for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + her Constitution modifier."

If negative modifiers (penalties) did not count, the ability would state bonus, not modifier.

Let me guess, someone is going to try to munchkin a wizard/barbarian multi-class with a constitution of 5?