|
The fact that I already have my entire turn planned with books open to the spell I'm going to cast, so I don't hold up the game, while other players take so long that our DM is using a timer to get them to move faster. I admit to sucking at math, so I actually have all of my modifiers added up (even a section for my changes when I have buffs on) and keep a calculator next to me.
I do exactly the same. I tend to have multiple attack lines on my character sheets for each weapon (with various usual bonuses and circumstances factored in), and I use a calculator to add up my rolls. The calculator gets some comments from the other guys at the table sometimes, but I prefer that to holding up the game (or calculating my rolls incorrectly).
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Glad to hear that you’re not going to let the problem players ruin your gaming experience too much Kitty.
Nah, I love the game and I love being a nerd, and like heck (not swearing is difficult, by the way) I'm going to let someone make me feel bad about myself or keep me from doing what I love. It's a great escape and (when they aren't being jerks) I love my friends. I think it was just getting to me and I needed to vent, in addition to voicing the matter with the offending players. I also rarely get to hear from other gamer girls, as the ones at the shop tend to not be that friendly, so hearing from other ladies is really nice.
I've known plenty of female gamers, have seen plenty of female gamers in other groups and at games cons, and I have yet (despite all that) to see said treatment or second class citizen status.
Maybe it's a cultural thing?
We have plenty of girls and women who design and run events at games cons etc - so perhaps we are different in Australia.
Apart from the odd guy getting funny about 'girls', there's just no issue.
Sorry to hear you are having a bad time.
"Materials that are frankly too strong for the average hobbyist gamer"
"Okay, give me a roll!"
... yeah. Or something. =)
I can't say i've ever seen that particular species of discrimination either.
Our group is VERY casual, there's only 1 or 2 of us that really know the rules, so the level of help is commensurate with ability, not gender.
I'm agreeing with shifty. Will have to ask lucifer for sleigh rides. :)
"Dashing through the snow..."
|
Just a quick reminder that the "OMG there are girl gamers?!" jokes are old, tired, play to negative stereotypes all around, and do not help the conversation.OMG --Kender have gender!
I am so tired of hearing that! ;)
Kender get no respect!
Respect is too precious.
We learned not to have it with us when Kenders are around...
Female gamers bring a different perspective and style to the table, this makes the game richer, and I miss their presence at our table.
Kitty - it looks like you have run up against a combination of the girls don't get mechanics and female players are the RP window dressing fallacy.
You have my sympathy .. I dont know your fellow players and most people have given good advice above so I wont give you advice on how to deal with your group.
What I do recommend is go to some Pathfinder Society games (if there are any in your area) see how other people game and have some fun without having to worry about your group.
I was reluctant to play Society Games because it felt like I was "cheating" on my regular group but its a cool way of meeting new people and playing a different style of game.
Mothy - I love it when you get the calculator out it makes the other guys focus (major problem at our table - cross game conversations).. It also means that your character is going to smite something spectacularly into oblivion.
|
Dr.Who references. I dislike the show and don't get them at all, Firefly too.I'm probably the wrong guy to ask - seems like I'm often the one saying "Er... was that a reference to something?"Chuckle.. its alright, we have one of those too.
Besides the cabbages do you remember what quotes triggered the last few "Er... was that a reference to something?" moments ?
*shocking
*monocle*
|
It may well be regional. Baseline experiences may vary depending on where you're coming from. Greater New York Area, Mid-West, Deep South, California, there are major cultural differences between each region of the country, including gender and trans-gender issues.I've known plenty of female gamers, have seen plenty of female gamers in other groups and at games cons, and I have yet (despite all that) to see said treatment or second class citizen status.
Maybe it's a cultural thing?
I definitely got it a lot more in my home state of Michigan than I do down here in Texas.
|
|
I definitely got it a lot more in my home state of Michigan than I do down here in Texas.It may well be regional. Baseline experiences may vary depending on where you're coming from. Greater New York Area, Mid-West, Deep South, California, there are major cultural differences between each region of the country, including gender and trans-gender issues.I've known plenty of female gamers, have seen plenty of female gamers in other groups and at games cons, and I have yet (despite all that) to see said treatment or second class citizen status.
Maybe it's a cultural thing?
What part of MI, Our capitol area gaming club is half female with little to no gender issues.
|
|
What part of MI, Our capitol area gaming club is half female with little to no gender issues.I definitely got it a lot more in my home state of Michigan than I do down here in Texas.It may well be regional. Baseline experiences may vary depending on where you're coming from. Greater New York Area, Mid-West, Deep South, California, there are major cultural differences between each region of the country, including gender and trans-gender issues.I've known plenty of female gamers, have seen plenty of female gamers in other groups and at games cons, and I have yet (despite all that) to see said treatment or second class citizen status.
Maybe it's a cultural thing?
I've only been a gamer while I lived in the Grand Rapids area. But overall I got a lot more negative feedback for being a girl interested in science and math and nerdy pursuits throughout my life in Dearborn, West Michigan and Toledo, OH where I attended university. I get the occasional jerk in Texas, of course, but by and large Texans have been better at being courteous without being condescending, let alone much less outright rudeness.
Wait who wouldn't know any and every joke and quote from Princess Bride?Show's that when you quote it at a gaming table everyone at the gaming table gets a laugh. Bonus points if it would make absolutely no sense to most people.What do you even mean by "geek shows"?Quick Off the top of your head name 5 geek shows
The Big Bang Theory
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
The Princess Bride
The Gamers
The Gamers: Dorkness Rising
Krod MandoonA couple of my players like to quote Excalibur in out-of-place comical situations (such as "you betrayed the Duke, you stole his wife, now no one trusts you"). We also shout out lines from horror movies in inappropriate places ("That thing wanted to be UUUUSSSSS!!!").
Not sure what this little exercise is about, but there you go.
Good point.
Also, I've seen exactly two of those - Monty Python & the Holy Grail and The Princess Bride. I've never watched Big Bang Theory, Krog Mandoon, or the Gamers (I don't even know what that is).
And not all the best jokes in those, or even the most told, are the sexual innuendo ones. Has anyone EVER heard anyone use that Westley quote? I don't even remember it in the movie.
It's mostly "I don't think that words means what you think it means." or "You killed my father, prepare to die!"
And yes, large tracts of land is an easy joke. But does anyone really think of innuendo about the shrubbery joke? Let's go to "cutting down the largest tree in the forest with a herring." Sure, I guess you can imply that's innuendo, but it is mostly just used for absurdity.
Any time you run into some dumbass quest giver, some one busts out with "You shall go cut down the laahhhgest tree in the forest wiiiith... a herring!" In that voice.
And really, the most I've ever seen used at the table is REALLY the Black Knight jokes - "It's just a flesh wound!" "I'll bite your knees off!" How is that sexual innuendo? I'm sure Dr Freud there could make it one, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
And not to mention lots of "Sir Robin bravely ran away" and the monster of Aaauuuughhhhh
Most of the stuff that comes up can't even really be tied to any single movie or show. Monty Python comes up a lot as default as it is funny and common. I just blurt out whatever comes into my head. I made a Winnie the Pooh reference during one 4e game as it applied to my absurd character concept and what I was doing.
Most common references at our table:
Monty Python & the Holy Grail - "She has large... tracts of lahnd." "It's just a flesh wound!"
Lord of the Rings - "Oh sure, let's just walk right into Mordor"
some anime I've never seen when we are trying to use Stealth - there is a picture of it floating around the internet, a bunch of ninja guys are just standing on the side of the street holding bits of a shrub going "Nothing to see here, move along, nothing here but us hedges" or some such.
I had two groups with female players. Well one with a female player twice (one quit and a new one joined) and all of the sexist, gender differences and sexual innuendo stuff is instigated by them.
|
some anime I've never seen when we are trying to use Stealth - there is a picture of it floating around the internet, a bunch of ninja guys are just standing on the side of the street holding bits of a shrub going "Nothing to see here, move along, nothing here but us hedges" or some such.
That's from the comic Paul the Samurai, from the same people who gave us The Tick.
That's from the comic Paul the Samurai, from the same people who gave us The Tick.some anime I've never seen when we are trying to use Stealth - there is a picture of it floating around the internet, a bunch of ninja guys are just standing on the side of the street holding bits of a shrub going "Nothing to see here, move along, nothing here but us hedges" or some such.
That explains a lot actually.
What about people that struggle to communicate to both genders. I am sure they exist.
This reminds me of my idea of creating a killer rabbit eidolon.
Also what can't be made into an innuendo?
My gaming experience has been filled with female gamers.
from the very first time I rolled up a wizard the only gamer at the table that would help me learn was Jennifer. We became really good friends till she was deployed elsewhere. The Next woman gamer in our group was Monica, she only started gaming because of her boyfriend/fiance/husband/ex-husband Robert(bob) was into it and she wanted to learn, she soon turned into an amazing player and loved the game in her own right. Then their was the DM's wife Marie. She was amazing at the table when she played but got tired of the group because it was too large(we had 12 exiled drow male rangers at any one time) 1 paladin,1 bard, 1 wizard and the 12 drizzit clones. That game lasted for over 3 years.
Mostly we welcome female gamers I will admit that sometimes I am "that" guy, I will be the first one to call the girlfriends that don't really care about the game and slow it down because they are getting pissy because they're bored and don't want to be there but want their boyfrinds to spend every waking minute with them instead of a bunch of guys or OMG another girl in the group. I tell them flat out if you really don't want to be here then don't bother coming, you've seen what our hobbie is so use the time to hang out with your girlfriends or doing stuff you like to do.
The typical stereotype for our group doesn't exist. Like Gunny posted previously most of us are either active duty or gym rats when were not gaming. When we hear about the anti social 400lbs nerd that were supposed to be we all just kindda laugh and tell the losers to go back to playing fantasy football.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In my experience, the OP couldn't be more right. Sadly.
Our two gamer girls started out exactly like that, but a few (dozen) sessions after the first they blended right into the group without any gender distition, not even to the "joking" part when sometimes it was kinda inappropriate.
Nowadays I'm lucky enough to call one of them my :heart:Wife:heart: :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The reaction from the guys lurking within was obvious and frankly embarrassing, in both cases pretty much literally every guy in the room just stopped and stared. In both cases it made the lady in question really uncomfortable and in one case I think it was a big factor in turning her off the idea of gaming with me. It was weird too, it’s not like I had never seen women in the store before and I had never noticed that reaction.
Thank you Mothman. This is a very important point that cannot be stressed enough. And the behavior Mothman is referring to is blatant while the main complaint of the OP is much more subtle and for the most part only obnoxious within the context of being treated differently.
The point someone made that I can’t actually tell when this is going on because I am never in all guy group doesn’t hold up. Because there are guys interacting with each other at the tables where I’ve experienced the lack of respect the OP describes. I see how they interact with each other and how they interact with me and other females.
If you want to say that these guys disrespect each other to that level when there is not a female there to direct it all towards… that they suddenly start second guessing and dismissing each other when there is not a woman around to do it to… that may be true. I’ll never know, but it doesn’t matter anyway. It doesn’t change that fact that as soon as they get the chance, they redirect it all towards her because she is a she and it sucks.
Regarding the original post:
Most of the behavior mentioned tends to be the sort of thing I only hear about and never witness firsthand. There has always been at least one woman in every group I've been in, so respect was always extended and if any (male) players had a problem they soon left. And, yeah, some actually left the group. I can't say whether it was social anxiety eating their sanity or that the new female player ruined their hopes of a drunken circle jerk -- I don't know. The other players couldn't figure it out either; in the end, we chalked it up to the players feeling threatened for whatever reason.
I have seen some teenage girls get competitive with each other, but I only experienced this in White Wolf groups.
Concerning gawking, staring, and so on:
Regardless of gender, I consider silently staring (looking at someone for longer than two seconds) to be one of the rudest things you can do to another person. Whether staring out of attraction or disgust, if communication doesn't happen the one stared at will feel assume the starer was disgusted by something and feel uncomfortable. The intent becomes irrelevant if the one staring never says anything.
If you think this sounds psychotic, try silently staring at a pet or bird or even a nest of wasps. At best, they become uncomfortable. Humans are the same way. People really need to avoid this behavior. Also, the I'll-look-at-whatever-I-want-who-are-you-to-tell-me-what-to-look-at defense is childish; if you know that it makes others uncomfortable, either stop or explain why you're doing it. Seriously.
There is something that hasn't been mentioned much: the guy that tries to date every woman that shows up to the table. We all know the type, they change their behavior the instant a woman joins the group. A previously easy-going useful party member suddenly changes into a I SEE BOOBZ, I CAN HAZ WIFE? snapshot. This never results in flattery, because the player dips into bizarre bouts of (in-game and out of game) chivalry while avoiding any direct communication with the female player. It's like watching a wildlife documentary.
My group has changed thanks to distant job offers and new players. We're now one male GM (me), two male players, and two female players. I'm happy to say that everyone is in it for the game rather than each other's anatomy and there are no stupid "competitions" between players.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just a quick post to remind everyone that I LOVE MY ALL GIRL GAMING GROUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has been running in one incarnation or another since college and I hope to keep it going until the day I die(or become a lich. Then it can keep going FOREVER)!!!!!!
|
|
Just a quick post to remind everyone that I LOVE MY ALL GIRL GAMING GROUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has been running in one incarnation or another since college and I hope to keep it going until the day I die(or become a lich. Then it can keep going FOREVER)!!!!!!
I'd just like to point out that you don't actually have an all girl gaming group. Not as long as you are part of it.
Just a quick post to remind everyone that I LOVE MY ALL GIRL GAMING GROUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has been running in one incarnation or another since college and I hope to keep it going until the day I die(or become a lich. Then it can keep going FOREVER)!!!!!!I'd just like to point out that you don't actually have an all girl gaming group. Not as long as you are part of it.
** spoiler omitted **
Are you trying to say FHDM isn't a girl?!?!
Alton and Joss will be shocked. ;)
Just a quick post to remind everyone that I LOVE MY ALL GIRL GAMING GROUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has been running in one incarnation or another since college and I hope to keep it going until the day I die(or become a lich. Then it can keep going FOREVER)!!!!!!I'd just like to point out that you don't actually have an all girl gaming group. Not as long as you are part of it.
** spoiler omitted **
Are you trying to say FHDM isn't a girl?!?!
Alton and Joss will be shocked. ;)
It depends on what level you're taking it to.
I'm the DM- according to some people I'm not part of the group, according to some people I am.
Just a quick post to remind everyone that I LOVE MY ALL GIRL GAMING GROUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has been running in one incarnation or another since college and I hope to keep it going until the day I die(or become a lich. Then it can keep going FOREVER)!!!!!!I'd just like to point out that you don't actually have an all girl gaming group. Not as long as you are part of it.
** spoiler omitted **
Are you trying to say FHDM isn't a girl?!?!
Alton and Joss will be shocked. ;)
It depends on what level you're taking it to.
I'm the DM- according to some people I'm not part of the group, according to some people I am.
So if the party is the right level you are a girl O.O?
So if the party is the right level you are a girl O.O?Just a quick post to remind everyone that I LOVE MY ALL GIRL GAMING GROUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has been running in one incarnation or another since college and I hope to keep it going until the day I die(or become a lich. Then it can keep going FOREVER)!!!!!!I'd just like to point out that you don't actually have an all girl gaming group. Not as long as you are part of it.
** spoiler omitted **
Are you trying to say FHDM isn't a girl?!?!
Alton and Joss will be shocked. ;)
It depends on what level you're taking it to.
I'm the DM- according to some people I'm not part of the group, according to some people I am.
Yes. I mean, no. I mean..uh..uh...
Dammit, I'm sure Joss Whedon has something to do with this confusion!!!!
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
I think balanced groups are the best kind. In my experience, having one or more girls in a gaming group significantly reduces the preponderance of sexual humor and fart jokes.
I have never been fortunate enough to game with a group of entirely female players (and I suspect it wouldn't count anyway since I am a guy), but I wouldn't be surprised if having a guy or two at the table would make those groups better as well.
I will admit that I tend to think of guys first when I think of crunchy rules stuff, but that is because (again, in my experience) the girls didn't care as much for the rules and were not as versed in them. Some of them even go so far as to have other people (boyfriends, usually) roll up their characters for them! But they bring a lot to the table, and their characters are always very fun and interesting.
I do think it helps, though, with the sorts of issues this thread is about when there is more than one girl at the table. It's a lot easier to look down on one person than it is when girls make up 1/3 or 1/2 of the group. Not that this helps you much, Kitty, but that's what I've seen.
|
|
I will admit that I tend to think of guys first when I think of crunchy rules stuff, but that is because (again, in my experience) the girls didn't care as much for the rules and were not as versed in them. Some of them even go so far as to have other people (boyfriends, usually) roll up their characters for them! But they bring a lot to the table, and their characters are always very fun and interesting.
It's true, most men seem more involved with the rules than the role play, but as I have a pack of rules lawyers in my group I try to stay on top of it. I personally couldn't imagine someone rolling a character up for me, but I think that's part of what makes your character more real is the mechanics. I take a number of feats based on personality and not just the "wow, this will help my character be epic", and sometimes the fluffy feats are just fun. One of the things I love in Pathfinder are the traits and how the system basically rewards you for involving yourself in the fluff.
And yeah, I'd love to have another girl at the table, but coming across one is a difficult thing and coming across one who doesn't have the catty girl issues is even more difficult. But who knows, maybe one of the boys will get around to dating a nerdy girl and bring in a friend. My friends aren't interested in the least, so alas, no go on my end. But I can hope!
And yeah, I'd love to have another girl at the table, but coming across one is a difficult thing and coming across one who doesn't have the catty girl issues is even more difficult. But who knows, maybe one of the boys will get around to dating a nerdy girl and bring in a friend. My friends aren't interested in the least, so alas, no go on my end. But I can hope!
I can't help but feel region has something to do with this. Here in the SF Bay Area, probably one of four RPGers is female, maybe even one of three. Most are casual, some more hardline.
Most tend to avoid straight-up wargames and card games. But they definitely like the RPGs around here. I'm surrounded by women gamers. I have three in my group alone. My FLGS is owned by a lady, has a lady on staff, and except on really, really slow days, always has a lady customer in it.
|
|
Hey, don't worry. With the exception of convention gaming and LARPs, I can honestly count on one hand the number of women I have played with, over 25 years of playing. It's a combination of bad luck and hanging out with strong, confident non-playing women (so they never feel like taking the role of "the girlfriend" at the table).
Okay, I just thought of a sixth player.
My present group has five players and and a DM, all male. Four of us are married to supportive non-players (the other two are single).
That being said, we have had some girls who joined our group for a short time and kept pulling the old "I have boobs, tee hee! Give me special treatment now".
This is one stereotype of female gamer that I keep hearing about but have absolutely never encountered. I’ve never had a woman at the game table who seemed to think she was entitled to special treatment due to being a woman, being new to the game, being the DM’s girlfriend or anything else.
A girl I dated in college would try this, and as the DM, it actually got on my nerves. She would also describe, in lewd detail and at the gaming table, things she'd do to me after the game if I let her get away with something or be granted special treatment. I tried to be strong........
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've been running games for over 25 years now off and on, and the main core of my groups were male. I've had my fair representations of the "insecure" gamerboy at my table for many of those groups, as well as perfectly well adjusted, "socially" acceptable guys as well. Several times throughout my history of gaming, on both sides of the table, have I rolled dice with and against female gamers, with some extremely varied results. I've had women join my playgroups to cope with their own insecurities, looking for attention from the guys. I've gamed under a female Dm who insisted on long drawn out romance story lines with her NPC's and the male gamers to cope with the fact that she had no love life. I had a roommate (female again) join my playgroup to have an excuse to spend time with another player to better seduce him. On the flipside of that, one of my best friends started out as one of those girls who always laughed at me for gaming, and ended up a convert, who was at my house every other day looking for pickup games, and tolerated flirting from my friends (yeah, she's a hottie) just long enough for them to realize we weren't in a bar, she wasn't there to be entertainment, she was one of them. After it all sunk in, they would bare their teeth together, as one, and plunge into whatever quest I had for them, as a unit, regardless of gender. It was kinda cool when it finally all gelled. Not every situation is going to work, with just any playgroup. I have trouble getting certain guys to sit around a table and game, they just don't mesh. The group I run game for now, we're comprised of two self confessed flirts, a kid terrified of women, the quiet brooding one, and our very own God's gift to the ladies (no, really, just ask him, he's that arrogent). Logic would dictate that I would never introduce a gamer girl to this crowd right? Wrong, I have two very attractive gamer girls who float in and out of the campaign, the one has known most of us for years and knows our personalities, and accepts us for what we are. The other, as she put it to me, "get's hit on everywhere she goes, why would game be any different?" Yeah, I know, many ladies will argue she shouldn't have to see it that way, but that is the reality of life, until we take the time to get to know anyone beyond what they look like, that's all we're working with to judge them. Not an excuse for anything, so don't attack, I'm simply stating a fact. My groups have always had an open door policy, if the other members can mesh with you, and you aren't a disruption to the flow, all aboard. I mean heck, I've even GM'ed for a cross dressing transvestite, and folks, you can't make that crap up (lol), "she" was a great player, really miss "her".
|
Mothy - I love it when you get the calculator out it makes the other guys focus (major problem at our table - cross game conversations).. It also means that your character is going to smite something spectacularly into oblivion.
People exercising their mathematical ability in anyway grabs my attention. That is why I shut up when Mothy pulls out the calculator. I am staring in amazement. Damn mathematics, what has it given us anyway?!
As for respecting female or male gamers, both deserve equal serves of it. I played in a group at university that had two female players and it ran smoothly enough. I am not overly distracted by the presence of women. But I have played with specific players who were and are annoying - and somewhat creepy - when women are at the table.
Player A: I played with this guy at university and he was socially awkward. He was also extremely aggressive at times. He did not get women in the slightest and could even be more than a little confrontational with them at the table, especially if he "liked" them. I am actually glad I do not play with this guy anymore (he was physically violent at one stage and struck a member of the group).
Player B: The scenario of the "chivalrous player" above is a good example of this guy. He takes it to an extreme. His perception of women is all wrong, though he considers himself a "lady's man". Never had a long term relationship in the 16 years I have known him.
If you have a player at the table who already has issues with women outside the game, then it will become apparent in game as well.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's true, most men seem more involved with the rules than the role play, but as I have a pack of rules lawyers in my group I try to stay on top of it.
Not true.
My group is an all male group and I would say that rules take a back seat to roleplaying. I think that is a generalisation, at least in my experience.
|
|
I'm a dude gamer and have always had a place for girl gamers at my table. I try to make everyone at my table as comfortable as possible. I expect players to be familiar with the rules that pertain to their characters and to role-play cooperatively.
That said I've made girls at my table cry before, not intentionally, but when reviewing favorite moments during post-game wrap up I didn't acknowledge a moment she thought was great. I realized then that I was imagining the game in a completely different lens than the girl. So now during post-game wrap up I ask each player what their favorite moment was for their character.
What I'm trying to get at is, girls at the table should be treated equally but players shouldn't ignore the difference in perspective.
I'm a dude gamer and have always had a place for girl gamers at my table. I try to make everyone at my table as comfortable as possible. I expect players to be familiar with the rules that pertain to their characters and to role-play cooperatively.
That said I've made girls at my table cry before, not intentionally, but when reviewing favorite moments during post-game wrap up I didn't acknowledge a moment she thought was great. I realized then that I was imagining the game in a completely different lens than the girl. So now during post-game wrap up I ask each player what their favorite moment was for their character.
What I'm trying to get at is, girls at the table should be treated equally but players shouldn't ignore the difference in perspective.
Wow. Never seen that happen.
Whoa Dudemeister, that is some lens. I hope you take it out before driving or operating heavy machinery.
|
|
One of the BIGGEST Issues I have had with some females in my group is their lack of paying full on attention to the game. Being a female it drives me nuts to see this.
1st Female we had sat and did needle point all game long. She would then interrupt the DM (Me) when I was talking in a very loud and squeaky voice. (she left as well as her hubby before they got booted... he would fall asleep and they never helped with the food)
2nd Female would knit at the table and once again not focus. She lasted 2 games because she just sat there and never did a thing.
3rd Female wife of a player and DM Sat and cut out her patterns and then the material for her "craft" projects and took up table space meant for gaming. not to mention wanted the group to Babysit her newborn son and 12 year old daughter.
4th female GF to one of our players. Sits ad then makes outbursts not pertaining to the game. Texts her buddies and is really only there because he is there.
This seems to be the norm of late. In the past other females I played with they where always focused in the game and not playing with sewing or needle point
...had player's GF/wife at the table who we're very committed...
To be fair, this had more to do with 'other halves' being around the table for the wrong reasons than with womanhood.
Sociologically speaking, we still see more women following their boyfriend to their activities than the other way around. Not a lot of guys go to their GF's knitting club (and I'm sure that if they did they wouldn't be much 'committed' to that either), but the "girl watching her boyfriend play" is a frequent thing in North America, which has more to do with culture than whether women can enjoy RPG (and the crunchy rules of) or not.
It's slowly getting better, but the 1950s ideal of "boys play/work and women watch" is still strong, and so is the culturally impregnated reflex of "guys need to explain the game to the girl", which ties in with the OP.
One of the BIGGEST Issues I have had with some females in my group is their lack of paying full on attention to the game. Being a female it drives me nuts to see this.
1st Female we had sat and did needle point all game long. She would then interrupt the DM (Me) when I was talking in a very loud and squeaky voice. (she left as well as her hubby before they got booted... he would fall asleep and they never helped with the food)
2nd Female would knit at the table and once again not focus. She lasted 2 games because she just sat there and never did a thing.
3rd Female wife of a player and DM Sat and cut out her patterns and then the material for her "craft" projects and took up table space meant for gaming. not to mention wanted the group to Babysit her newborn son and 12 year old daughter.
4th female GF to one of our players. Sits ad then makes outbursts not pertaining to the game. Texts her buddies and is really only there because he is there.
This seems to be the norm of late. In the past other females I played with they where always focused in the game and not playing with sewing or needle point
That is not an issue of being female. I would have a problem if a male player did something similar.
That is not an issue of being female. I would have a problem if a male player did something similar.One of the BIGGEST Issues I have had with some females in my group is their lack of paying full on attention to the game. Being a female it drives me nuts to see this.
1st Female we had sat and did needle point all game long. She would then interrupt the DM (Me) when I was talking in a very loud and squeaky voice. (she left as well as her hubby before they got booted... he would fall asleep and they never helped with the food)
Seems like sample #1 indicates just that.
|
|
Well in my case, my BF came to the gaming table because of me. He always had an interest but had never played D&D or any other RPG... well he said he tried once and the guy who he tried it with stunk so it fell apart.
As for women doing the needle point, I do have an issue with it. Would it be any worse if I sat and played my guitar all game long and then only jumped in when someone yelled at me to act? Or if a guy sat and watched Hockey all game long (yes had a male player that did that and it was distracting. He cared more about watching a hockey game than playing)
I have an issue with anyone who cannot focus. Granted there are times in a large group that you are twiddling your thumbs and doing nothing while someone in the part is doing something, but that does not mean you do not pay attention and stay focused which was the issue of all 4 of the women I mentioned.
The object of being at the game be it male or female, wife/GF/BF/son/daughter/father/mother/Pet is to be at the game because you want to be and to be focused on the game as best as your abilities allow it. Sometimes RL gets in the way, but I do not consider a sports game, or needle point, or what ever. Be there to play and play with full focus.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It may not be so much "boys play/work and women watch" as it being more acceptable for women to take up traditionally male activities than the other way around. Even things as low on the status totem pole as gaming.
Nah, depends on how it's done. One of my hobbies is baby names, and I regularly watch the ballet.
And in my experience, it's not so much that tagalongs are following any 50s ideal, as much as they can't deal with being alone while their partners are out doing whatever it is they're doing. Being the tagalong at the table more often involves clinginess (which may include passive-aggressive behavior or not) than the view that it's an outing.
|
|
It's true, most men seem more involved with the rules than the role play, but as I have a pack of rules lawyers in my group I try to stay on top of it.Not true.
My group is an all male group and I would say that rules take a back seat to roleplaying. I think that is a generalisation, at least in my experience.
You are right, this is an unfair statement to make about all male gamers. How about, all the male gamers that I have come across (therefore the only male gamer I am familiar with) are more concerned about mechanics than fluff?
Also, Dudemeister, (though it seems a bit unusual for that reaction to occur) I do appreciate your approach to the matter.
And, I will admit, I was the girlfriend who was brought to the game. Well, the boyfriend said he wanted to try it and would like me to come with and it seemed like it'd be a lark, so I gave it a shot. Took me one session and I was hooked, it's like grown up make believe, just with more structure.
I will also admit that I have trouble focusing in certain campaigns that aren't pulling me in (the ones that capture my attention I am completely devoted to), and catch myself losing focus and then remembering I need to change out the laundry. It's a terrible habit that I am totally embarrassed by, but I'm working on it!
You are right, this is an unfair statement to make about all male gamers. How about, all the male gamers that I have come across (therefore the only male gamer I am familiar with) are more concerned about mechanics than fluff?
I cannot say anything about the men you came across, but I know many men interested with fluff much more than mechanics.
I myself take a design interest in mechanics (I like to tinker with rules and houserules), but flavour takes precedence in my games (and that's how my players, males included, like it too).
I think there are a few things at work that can go in favour of your comment however:
1) 3E/Pathfinder includes a significant amount of rule mastery/optimisation; moreso than other systems like White Wolf's storyteller system for example. Therefore, many people playing 3E/Pathfinder have chosen that particular game partially because they enjoy the mechanical, simulationist aspect of the game.
2) Men in general, are naturally more inclined toward mathematical/spatio-temporal skills and games than women. This is a generalisation: it doesn't mean a woman cannot be interested just as much (or more) than the average guy (I believe you are the living proof of that).
'findel
|
|
You are right, this is an unfair statement to make about all male gamers. How about, all the male gamers that I have come across (therefore the only male gamer I am familiar with) are more concerned about mechanics than fluff?I cannot say anything about the men you came across, but I know many men interested with fluff much more than mechanics.
I myself take a design interest in mechanics, but flavour takes precedence in my games (and that's how my players, males included, like it too).
Right, and I'm not saying they don't enjoy the fluff or get into it, they just fall into the habit of obsessing over mechanics first. It takes them a bit more time to settle into the fluff of it all, once they hit their stride it's great, but they slip back into rules lawyer very quickly and games will get sidetracked because of it.