| Douglas Muir 406 |
About to throw my first dragon at the PCs. (They've reached APL 7th and never yet fought one.) Decided to go with a tarnished silver because it fits the current storyline neatly.
Here's a CR 10 silver dragon:
LG Large dragon (cold)
Init +5; Senses dragon senses; Perception +17
AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 21; (+1 Dex, +12 natural, –1 size)
hp 104 (11d12+33)
Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +12
Immune acid, cold, paralysis, sleep
Weaknesses vulnerability to fire
Speed 40 ft., fly 200 ft. (average); cloudwalking, graceful flight
Melee bite +16 (2d6+7), 2 claws +15 (1d8+5), 2 wings +13 (1d6+2), tail +13 (1d8+7)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks breath weapon (40-ft. cone, DC 18, 6d8 cold), paralyzing breath
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 11th; concentration +14)
At will—detect evil
Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +4)
1st (4/day)—alarm, true strike
0 (at will)—detect magic, light, message, read magic
STATISTICS
Str 21, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 16
Base Atk +11; CMB +17; CMD 28 (32 vs. trip)
Feats Hover, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Acrobatics +12, Diplomacy +17, Fly +13, Heal +17, Intimidate +17, Knowledge (local) +17, Perception +17, Sense Motive +17, Spellcraft +17
Change Shape (Su)
A silver dragon can assume any animal or humanoid form 3/day as if using polymorph.
So I'm looking at this guy and rubbing my chin a little. Against my party of 6 PCs -- 5 7th and 1 6th level -- I think he's going down pretty hard.
He doesn't have a grab attack or flyby, so he'll have to either stand off at range or descend to melee. At range, he doesn't have any offensive spells. His breath weapon does 6d8, but the cleric can promptly burst-heal back 4d6 of that. Paralyzing breath isn't bad, but against 6 characters more than half are likely to save (and as a metagame point, I mildly dislike "save or suck" things that take one or more PCs out of action for long combats. Not to say I won't use them, just that I'd rather not if there's a better way.) Meanwhile the party casters are attacking with Scorching Rays and Spiritual Weapon, while the Zen Archer ninja and the bow-specialty ranger are pumping 20 or more points of damage each round -- each. With 1d4 to recharge, the dragon's not likely to get more than a couple of breath attacks out before they shoot him out of the sky.
So say he descends to melee. Well: he's gonna die pretty fast. The party sorceror does burst Haste, the raging barbarian power attacks, the barbarian smites, the dwarven cleric starts buffing and healing... the fighter-types typically hit at around +15 to +20 on their main attacks, so a 22 AC isn't going to slow them down much. The raging barb alone has little difficulty pumping out 50 hp of damage in a round.
I haven't played a serious dragon in forever, so maybe I'm doing it wrong. But it seems like a CR 10 creature should be more of a challenge.
What can I do here?
Doug M.
| x93edwards |
With 6 PCs, keep in mind that the ECL of the group is 8+, so a CR 10 dragon is only a couple of CR's higher. You definitely don't want to sell yourself short when running a dragon encounter. In my opinion they should be pretty memorable.
I suggest a dragon of at least CR 11 or 12 for your group. Also, take the time to make the dragon's hoard and then make sure the dragon is using those items to its best advantage. Potions of healing or even scrolls will be helpful. A scroll of Healing is also a great equalizer if your think the PCs will cut through the dragons hit points too fast.
Given that there are so many PCs and only the one monster, perhaps providing the dragon with one or more allies can keep everyone busy and distracted. Even a group of low-level minions, such as kobolds could provide distraction and healing, buffing, etc. to the dragon as opposed to the group ganging up on the dragon if it were by itself.
Feel free to give the dragon maximum hit points and look for places to swap out feats or spells that might better suit your needs. Finally, don't discount terrain or traps in the area that might give your dragon an advantage. A silver dragon is immune to acid and cold, so areas or pools that deal this kind of damage will hinder PCs without giving the dragon pause.
Good luck.
| Kolokotroni |
Single monster encounters are not a good idea in most cases. Especially with a larger group. With 6 pcs it should never even be a consideration. Dragons can have mates, they can have whelps. Design the encounter around a group of dragons, or a dragon and followers/allies. It takes a huge amount of planning and careful design of the encounter (besides the monster itself) to make a single monster encounter be both exciting and not a party wipe. If you have to ask the question, you probably should not be doing it.
| Douglas Muir 406 |
1) It's a "field" encounter -- the dragon is well away from its lair. Basically it's racing the PCs to reach a site.
2) I can change the dragon's spells and feats, sure. But it only gets two first level spells and six feats. Its current feats are Hover, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack, and Weapon Focus (bite). I might switch out that last one for Flyby Attack.
3) I can give the dragon some mooks. But if I give a lot of them then it affects the hypothetical CR.
... maybe give the dragon a rider / ally who's a sorceror specialized in buff spells? A Sor 5 with Mage Armor, Shield, Protection From Arrows, and Bull's Strength? If we crank the dragon's AC up to 30 and make it somewhat resistant to missile attacks, it gets a lot more interesting.
Thoughts?
Doug M.
| Selgard |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The dragon's best advantage in the scenario as you presented is that it can basically choose to fight them whenever it wants.
It should definately take fly by attack and make good use of its breath weapons. "stand and fight" should Not be in this guys vocabulary.
He needs to land, blow breath, and run away. it doesn't matter if they save or fail, he is slowly wittling down their resources.
Flyby, bite, and just fly right away. Let it do this a few times throughout the day. Sprinkle in other encounters to worry the PC's. (they never know when the dragon will show up).
Plan the "final battle" to take place when they are already in combat. Something 2-3 CR's lower than they are that the dragon can land just near the middle or end of the fight and intrude on. This way the PC's are weakened (but not dead) and have to fight the dragon when less than full strength. This lets them have an "epic battle" that doesn't require you to worry about buffing the dragon. Its been bugging them all day and they'll be super worried abouut their resources and such since they've also been doing other things. (like fighting the whatever you throw at them all day).
It doesn't have to be one hard encounter to be memorable. Its the worry that the PC's will die that creates the memory.. guerilla tactics by the dragon and a climactic fight even as they are fighting something else will keep the dragon in their memories for a long time. ;)
Just a few thoughts.
-S
| Brambleman |
The dragon's best advantage in the scenario as you presented is that it can basically choose to fight them whenever it wants.
It should definately take fly by attack and make good use of its breath weapons. "stand and fight" should Not be in this guys vocabulary.
He needs to land, blow breath, and run away. it doesn't matter if they save or fail, he is slowly wittling down their resources.
Flyby, bite, and just fly right away. Let it do this a few times throughout the day. Sprinkle in other encounters to worry the PC's. (they never know when the dragon will show up).
Plan the "final battle" to take place when they are already in combat. Something 2-3 CR's lower than they are that the dragon can land just near the middle or end of the fight and intrude on. This way the PC's are weakened (but not dead) and have to fight the dragon when less than full strength. This lets them have an "epic battle" that doesn't require you to worry about buffing the dragon. Its been bugging them all day and they'll be super worried abouut their resources and such since they've also been doing other things. (like fighting the whatever you throw at them all day).
It doesn't have to be one hard encounter to be memorable. Its the worry that the PC's will die that creates the memory.. guerilla tactics by the dragon and a climactic fight even as they are fighting something else will keep the dragon in their memories for a long time. ;)
Just a few thoughts.
-S
Yes, very yes.
More so if they are in combat with something immune to cold damage, so the dragon blasts the party, and then they still have to fight the unharmed original encounter. I recommend Ice trolls for this. they have the bonus of forcing the party to expend some of their fire attacks to put these guys down.| Mynameisjake |
If you're not going to use Paralyzing Breath (the Dragon's most potent weapon), then you should replace it with something else that you don't mind using, otherwise you're needlessly reducing the Dragon's combat effectiveness.
Since you need to up the CR of the baddie anyway, two dragons up the CR by 2, which is where you need it to be anyway. Dragon Baddie calls in favor from a nearby Dragon, for example, or another equal CR creature. The additional creature doesn't even need to be an "ally" of the Dragon, just some random baddie that happens to be/live in the area that the Dragon can lead to the party.
If you do use Paralyzing Breath, then having the Dragon open with it, while flying, then dropping a large tree on those who fail their save (in order to further delay the targets + damage) would be a good tactic.
As for the spells, Mage Armor and Shield should up the Dragon's AC by 8, which should help it survive combat. A well placed obscuring mist can also temporarily neutralize those pesky archers/chargers. Silent Image could also be used to set up an ambush.
If appropriate for the terrain, triggering an avalanche or smashing a frozen, snow covered lake or river (that the PC are crossing) would make for a nasty surprise that will damage/separate the characters.
Also, don't forget a Dragon is certainly going to use any "treasure" that it might have to best effect.
Good Luck with the encounter.
Dennis Baker
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
As Selgard says, play the dragon smooth. Hit them with the breath weapon and take off. Have it circle the party at half a mile up. Have it trick them into other fights then hit them with the breath weapon while they are fighting the other creature. If they are archer heavy have it stay out of archery range until it's actually attacking. Give it flyby and have it disarm the archer's bows (it can pick up the disarmed bow and take it). Hopefully they have backups ;)
In other words, just harry them until they really hate it then have them face it off when they get to their ultimate destination. Unless they have some way to pin it down the dragon can control the when and where of their encounters.
| Lab_Rat |
Like every one has said. Make it memorable. I like the idea of dragging the battle out a little. Have the dragon fly by attack them and keep on them. It won't kill the players but it will keep them on their toes. I also like the idea of using the polymorph for the final battle, so that you can get in close without having to fight to get there. Let them come across a paladin who is traveling in the same direction. They may see it as you throwing them a bone to help with the dragon. You could also just be a small animal that skidders across the road as the players come near. Once you have them all bundled up in close to you, dragonize and full attack their screaming heads off.
| DM Dan E |
Concur that a fight against a single enemy at APL + 2 doesn't seem to represent the challenge you are looking for. Concur that the main thing the dragon has going for it is paralysis. If you don't want to use that I'd try something else entirely.
If you do run the fight with the stats stated, I'm going to disagree with some of the above. The dragon's defenses are not very impressive. Its relying on its flight to keep attackers away. Two ranged focus PCs are going to work bloody havoc on it as it flies in and flies away. I just don't see hit and run tactics working.
Frankly its only chance would seem to me to attack out of ambush, try the paralysis and quickly rip up the archers with full attacks while it hovers out of range of the melee. However its chance of taking someone out in 1 round seems pretty low. As you say if the cleric makes its save the dragon is going to struggle.
| DreamAtelier |
Given the type of fight you're suggesting, get rid of Hover for Flyby Attack right off... that will help make the dragon a bit better able to stand against them.
Besides that, everything else already listed sounds like solid advice. And don't be afraid to have the Dragon fly off, pick up a bolder, and drop it on the party from well outside range.
karkon
|
As Selgard says, play the dragon smooth. Hit them with the breath weapon and take off. Have it circle the party at half a mile up. Have it trick them into other fights then hit them with the breath weapon while they are fighting the other creature. If they are archer heavy have it stay out of archery range until it's actually attacking. Give it flyby and have it disarm the archer's bows (it can pick up the disarmed bow and take it). Hopefully they have backups ;)
In other words, just harry them until they really hate it then have them face it off when they get to their ultimate destination. Unless they have some way to pin it down the dragon can control the when and where of their encounters.
This is the way to go. Instead of one big fight it is several smaller fights with other opponents and the dragon jumps down to make the fight tougher and runs off before the PCs can adequately respond.
In this race to a site the amount of time before anyone reaches the site can help here. If you have a few days then the dragon can harry them for days while sending other oppnents their way. That diplomacy +17 can help him recruit allies on the fly, maybe with enticement from some of the treasure from his hoard. The ability to take any form could also let him set up an ambush where he is hidden in a group of weak opponents and then boom! Dragon out of nowhere.
I assume that he has a reason to fight them instead of just bolting for the site. He does have a fly speed of 200 and at 7th level that is hard for pcs to match over non combat time.
| Douglas Muir 406 |
What happened:
PCs got the drop on the dragon anyway. Young silver dragon, regularly polymorphs into human form and goes roaming around as "Lady Frost", an aristocratic-looking young woman (very young; mid-teens) accompanied by an older man ("Dog", an Ari 1 / Sorceror 5, her distant dragonblood cousin and miserable slave).
The PCs were suspicious anyway and made some VERY good rolls, and so decided to attack them. Did you know that coming out of Polymorph is a full round action? PCs managed to put around 100 hp of damage on her in that full round.
Fortunately, they didn't quite kill her. She flew off with Dog on her back. He had a few healing potions, and he's specialized for buff spells, so a few rounds later she was back with mage armor, shield, blur, and protection from arrows. AC 28 + 20% miss chance + DR 10 against arrows... nice. PCs still hadn't quite processed "evil silver dragon" yet, so one of them actually threw a Cone of Cold! Heh.
PCs cast invisibility and haste and scattered. Dragon started hunting them down one by one, which was fun. However, the Paladin got a bright idea: he cast Bless and Bull's Strength on his Pseudodragon sidekick and sent him after Dog. The Pseud (who has a level of Rogue) nailed the miserable sorceror with his sting... and he failed his save and fell off the dragon's back, unconscious. The fall reduced him far into negative HP. The angry dragon, torn between rescuing its servant and continuing the hunt, decided that revenge was a dish best served cold and flew off with the sorceror in its claws. The PCs wisely fled the scene, as far and as fast as they could.
Doug M.
| Douglas Muir 406 |
The dragon ("Lady Frost") is the CR 10 Young Silver Dragon from the SRD -- I made some minor changes to feats and skills and gave her a couple of items, but basically it's her.
Her CR 5 human sidekick is below. He's in a world of hurt at the moment, as the dragon blames the PCs' getaway on his pathetic inability to make a simple Fort save.
Doug M.
* * * * *
"Dog"
Male Chaotic Evil Human Aristocrat 1 / Sorceror 5 (Draconic bloodline)
Initiative +0 Perception +7
AC 13 (+1 natural armor, +1 Dex, +1 bracer) Hit points 35
Fort +3 Ref + 2 Will +5
Melee: +1 longsword +4 (d8+2/19–20) or 2x claws +3/+3 (d4+1)
Spells known:
2nd (5/day)— blur, resist energy, protection from arrows (DC 15)
1st (6/day)— mage armor, magic missile, shield, protection from evil, true strike
Str 12 Dex 12 Con 13 Int 12 Wis 9 Cha 17
Featrs: Alertness, Combat Casting, Endurance, Eschew Materials, Silent Spell
Diplomacy +8, Knowledge (geography) +5, Knowledge (history) +7, Knowledge (local) +6, Linguistics +3, Perception +7, Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +10, Survival +5
Languages Common, Draconic
Equipment: 2x potions of cure moderate wounds (used), 2x potions of cure light wounds (used), potion of gaseous form, scroll of dispel magic, scroll of tiny hut, bracers of armor +1, masterwork dagger, Noble clothes, jewelry worth 200 gp, 120 gp cash
* * *
After years of service to an evil dragon, Sir Baruth has almost forgotten his name. His mistress calls him "Dog", and he's started to use the name to himself.
Baruth's family has long been associated with the silver dragons of Northwall, so it's no surprise that he began showing draconic bloodline powers; the only thing unusual is that it took years, until he was nearly 30. The family immediately offered him as a gift-slave to a newly fledged silver, just past the wyrmling stage. He's been the monster's loyal servant ever since.
Dog's major function is to cast buffs on Lady Frost. He'll typically cast mage armor, shield, and blur, followed by protection from arrows and other buffs if they seem necessary. (The two have worked out their tactics in advance, and Lady Frost will hold off from combat until he is done.) In combat he'll cast True Strike on her if it looks like there's a high-AC enemy; otherwise he'll throw magic missiles. He doesn't have the Mounted Shot feat, so once he's out of spells he can't do anything further.
Dog's attitude towards Lady Frost is a sickening mixture of religious awe, lust, and utter, crawling terror. The dragon is both highly intelligent and utterly sadistic; when she has nothing better to do, she enjoys putting Dog through complex torments and humiliations. That said, she's invested a fair amount of time turning him into a valuable servant; she views him as her personal property, and will go well out of her way to protect him. She's planning to kill Dog herself one day, in some truly horrible fashion, after she's gained another age category or two and he's too old to be useful. Meanwhile, he belongs to her; she takes care of him, and occasionally throws him a bit of treasure or a captive to torture for himself.
(Note that Dog's treasure is all Lady Frost's property. Killing him would enrage her; killing him and taking his stuff would gain her permanent, relentless enmity.)
Years of humiliation and torment have left Dog easily spooked, so he gets -2 on saving throws against fear effects. However, within 30 feet of Lady Frost he gets a +1 morale bonus to all attack and saving throws, and he never makes morale checks -- as long as she's alive, he fights to the death, because death would be infinitely preferable to failing her.
karkon
|
Have the dragon fly high up in plain view. If they use fly to come after her then the dispel magic scroll will be useful. In any case the dragon can use its movement to stay well ahead. If one or two characters separate far enough from the group then she attacks them.
She can also wait for another combat with an unrelated foe and come it to attack. Like others have said the dragon does not get enough actions to make it interesting.
Ideally you should let the characters have a couple days with no dragon. She knows where they are going and can fly ahead using her very superior speed. She can use that time to set up several attacks (lets say 4).
During the first 3 she might swoop in for a round and drop her breath weapon and fly away. This should get the players to waste daily resources (spells and channeling). Use of paralyzing breath is nice here as it makes the first 3 fights tougher.
During the last fight she will try to put the hurt on them. She will have allies in this fight too. When she swoops down she will stay and try to make a real fight of it. She should open with paralyzing breath and throw down.