tl;dr version: I would like to craft a wand for my King Crab familiar to use.
Long version:
Lots of people in Pathfinder give wands to their Raven familiar (who knows a language and can therefore speak command words) and allow the Raven familiar to make a UMD check to activate the wand. This vastly increases their action economy, and is almost too good a trick to pass up if you're a wizard or a witch. The problem with this, to me, is it funnels players into certain familiar choices that really reduce the available flavor of the classes. I would like to do the same trick with a King Crab, but want to discuss more generally doing the same trick with other familiars as well, and it comes down to an official ruling over what counts as a "word" for other organisms.
Relevant rules -
Spell Trigger:
Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
(excerpt from) Use Magic Device:
Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list.
Discussion -
UMD clearly allows the familiar to skip the caster prereq. If the familiar can speak, then it can use any typical wand off a shelf because wands down at Wands Emporium are made for humans, and humans communicate via words. The question is this - if I'm crafting a wand, and I'm choosing the "command word" for the wand, may I not substitute another form of communication than "words" if the wand is to be used by a creature that communicates in another manner? Could I custom craft a wand with a "Command Squeak" for my bat? "Command Screech" for my hawk? Please bear in mind that at 5th level, the Wizard can communicate with the bat or hawk via squeaks or screeches, so the wizard has a clear command of the language of his familiar before he crafts the wand.
A parallel question that may help tool out the answer:
Are there any races in the bestiary that have Wizards, but do not communicate with "words?" If so, are they prohibited from crafting wands or staves for their use?
I have nothing to add to this, but I so want one of my players to craft a wand with command-word "Hoot." His owl would be randomly firing off magic missiles all the time. It would be fantastic.
tl;dr version: I would like to craft a wand for my King Crab familiar to use.
Purely from an awesome standpoint, I am entirely for this happening somehow. The crab with a wand is too awesome.
From a personal standpoint, if you are crafting the wand yourself, I couldn't imagine any reasonable objection to what you are wanting to do here. If you want your wand to be triggered by the clacking of crab claws, go for it.
From a RAW standpoint? I'm not sure if its technically doable. I wish I were :(
From a RAW standpoint? I'm not sure if its technically doable. I wish I were :(
It all comes down to what constitutes a "word" for other species.
This is a question that's just as easily entertained, and would produce the same answer:
Are there any races in the bestiary that have Wizards, but do not communicate with "words?" If so, are they prohibited from crafting wands or staves for their use?
Aboleth, for instance. Do they speak? I thought I remembered them communicating via telepathy, but it's not mentioned in the bestiary entry. Are there any other sentient telepathic creatures without the ability to formulate audible "sound" words, and if so, are they prohibited from using wands and staves? I'd ask about Illithid, but apparently they're owned by Hasbro?
Deaf Oracles get "silent spell" feat on all their spells. Does this mean they don't talk? Does this mean they therefore cannot use wands?
Craft then a item based on speak with animals spell, that allows them to speak with humans. Then your crab/owl/monkey can speak command words. They've already got the intelligence to speak, just not the mechanical parts. Problem solved. In the due course of time I plan to do this with my monkey familiar.
I have nothing to add to this, but I so want one of my players to craft a wand with command-word "Hoot." His owl would be randomly firing off magic missiles all the time. It would be fantastic.
I realize that was tongue in cheek, but technically at 5th level the wizard can tell between 100 subtly different kinds of hoots, and can replicate those, to talk with his familiar. In theory, the wand would be crafted to recognize the "blast em!" hoot. :)
I realize that was tongue in cheek, but technically at 5th level the wizard can tell between 100 subtly different kinds of hoots, and can replicate those, to talk with his familiar. In theory, the wand would be crafted to recognize the "blast em!" hoot. :)
Everyone knows the only thing an owl ever says is who. Although this made me think to have a 100 owls fly across the sky with wands of magic missile just hooting away.
I have nothing to add to this, but I so want one of my players to craft a wand with command-word "Hoot." His owl would be randomly firing off magic missiles all the time. It would be fantastic.I realize that was tongue in cheek, but technically at 5th level the wizard can tell between 100 subtly different kinds of hoots, and can replicate those, to talk with his familiar. In theory, the wand would be crafted to recognize the "blast em!" hoot. :)
Sir, I do believe you've just cited a rule (Speak with master) that undeniably states that at level 5, familiars can speak.
Not common, but its still speach, which should be enough for UMD in almost anyones book, right?
Craft then a item based on speak with animals spell, that allows them to speak with humans. Then your crab/owl/monkey can speak command words. They've already got the intelligence to speak, just not the mechanical parts. Problem solved. In the due course of time I plan to do this with my monkey familiar.
I think this is a fine way to approach this.
Sir, I do believe you've just cited a rule (Speak with master) that undeniably states that at level 5, familiars can speak.
Not common, but its still speach, which should be enough for UMD in almost anyones book, right?
I would think so.
Now lets talk Crab.
Rule -
The process of making a vermin into a familiar grants it an Intelligence score and removes the mindless trait. Vermin familiars communicate with their masters and other vermin of their kind (greensting scorpions with other scorpions, house centipedes with other centipedes, and scarlet spiders with other spiders) by way of a strange combination of behaviors, slight changes in coloration, and even the excretion of scents, subtle and otherwise. As with other types of familiars, other creatures cannot understand this communication without magical aid.
King Crab counts as vermin for this rule. So a wizard communicates with his King Crab mostly via coloration and scent. Can I then craft a wand that has a Command Scent?
That seems to be the implication, if vermin familiars are to be held on par with animal familiars in utility. I personally think it's cool. But it's certainly weird.
i've seen it in some familiar / animal companion threads where one of the game devs has mentioned that familiars can't activate wands , its out there, if you can find it. they say if you take improved familiar and have something like an imp or a quasit, they can use the wand.
I would like to see that link. Everything I found while searching came up the opposite.
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http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderS ociety/general/guidanceOnPaizoBlogOnIntelligentAnimalsRequested&page=5# 207
its a ruling for pathfinder society, not in the general rules forum for pathfinder, so I don't know if applies to the question ( whether the king crab is in a campaign or home game or pathfinder society game )
it was Hyrum Savage, one of the moderators on the campaign until recently. The ruling was made april 20, 2011.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderS ociety/general/guidanceOnPaizoBlogOnIntelligentAnimalsRequested&page=5# 207
its a ruling for pathfinder society, not in the general rules forum for pathfinder, so I don't know if applies to the question ( whether the king crab is in a campaign or home game or pathfinder society game )
it was Hyrum Savage, one of the moderators on the campaign until recently. The ruling was made april 20, 2011.
Thank you for the link, and further the clarification of who said it.
It's good to know what's been said by the developers / etc. I'll ask my GM and see what he wants to do. Thanks everyone for the helpful comments in the thread.