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Our Group noticed all these different types of Bleed.
Core Rulebook & PRD.
Bleed Condition: Bleeding can be stopped by a DC15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage).
Rogue. Bleeding Attack(Ex) Talent: The bleeding can be stopped by a DC15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage.
Magic weapon special ability descriptions. Wounding: Bleeding can be stopped by a DC15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage.
Advanced Player's Guide & PRD
Oracle. Bleeding Wounds(Su) Revelation: The bleeding can be stopped by a DC15 Heal check or any effect that heals damage.
Bestiary & PRD.
Universal Monster Rules. Bleed(Ex): This bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC15 Heal skill check or through the application of any magical healing.
Are all of these (and any others) supposed to be different?
Or are all of these supposed to be the same?
We are currently following each one as they are written, but it would be nice to have
One Bleed to Rule them All
Let me clarify; they are all stopped differently.
They're all the same thing. If you get hit with all those attacks you would only take the highest Bleed damage each round (as they don't stack).
--Vrock the House
I concur, they all inflict the same condition. We didn't know they didn't stack, though....
Rogues now don't need to take Bleeding blades; check.
I don't think it's a matter of bleeding not stacking, because some abilities specifically state they don't stack, while others do not. But a single point of magical healing could negate a dozen bleed effects at once, if you managed to stack them that high.
Stacking is not relevant, what matters is how you stop the bleeding.
For example; a trolls regeneration stops the Rogue & the Oracle bleeding, but not the Wounding sword the Paladin has.
IMO that's just inconsistent wording. They should use identical terminology.
But which terminology should we use?
I prefer the Rogue's definition; any effect that heals hit point damage.
I would say the rogues it's kinda silly that one needs a spell the other wouldn't however should be noted on the troll its only nonlethal bleed anyways.
There is at least one bleed effect that does stack with itself, the Bleeding Critical feat.
There is at least one bleed effect that does stack with itself, the Bleeding Critical feat.
Wounding weapons say they stack with themselves.
But which terminology should we use?
I prefer the Rogue's definition; any effect that heals hit point damage.
I would agree with that. It's silly if regeneration can reattach an arm, but not close a wound.
Perhaps we can get Sean K Reynolds and James Jacobs (who on another thread I believe said he lets fast healing and regeneration stop bleed), to provide us with a single definition for stopping bleed.
Keeping track of the different bleeds is slightly annoying.
We also have not checked every single different thing that causes bleed, so if there are any other different ways to stop the bleeding, as defined in those other bleed entries... oh joy.
Regeneration RAW would not stop bleed from Wounding weapon(requires a spell that cures hp damage),
or even from a Mosquito swarm (generic bleed - requires magical healing).
Trolls should stay out of swamps!! The mosquitos can wipe them out;)
The same with Fast Healing RAW does not stop wounding and bleed from bat and mosquito swarms. These would require cure hp spells or magical healing.
Infernal Wounds(Su) from certain devils I would leave alone and follow the entry for the monster's bleed.
The main point I'm trying to get across is that the definitions from APPENDIX 2: CONDITIONS should not overule the definitions in the PC/monster/magic item entries.
Compare the entry for mosquito in Bestiary 2 (generic bleed - use glossary definition), with that for the bat swarm in Bestiary 1 (Wounding(Ex) should probably say bleed not wounding), now compare those with a wounding weapon in the Core Rulebook.
These should cause every troll, redcap, tendriculos and moonflower to bleed until they can make a heal check or get some magic help.
Yep and thats why bleed effects should be stopped by any form of hp recovery to me not have each effect have its own descrpiton.
The rogue ability is the only one that says it bypasses damage reduction.
Thanks Bob_Loblaw!
I had not seen that even after re-reading the bleed entries dozens of times;p
Throw my hat into the ring here... Bleed should have a standardized way of being written.
Additionally, for HP bleed it should be noted that it bypasses Damage Reduction. This should be noted in the Glossary's entry on Bleed.
IMO it should bypass DR, it just makes sense.
IMO it should bypass DR, it just makes sense.
I agree. Being tough doesn't stop you from bleeding out. It should only mitigate how damage the initial attack does.
Ok I am new and haven't been able to find and exact answer, say I attack someone with a weapon w/the wounding SPA, could the bleed damage be stopped by stabilize. Though it states that it stops the target from loosing more hit points, it doesn't actually heal hit points.
Ok I am new and haven't been able to find and exact answer, say I attack someone with a weapon w/the wounding SPA, could the bleed damage be stopped by stabilize. Though it states that it stops the target from loosing more hit points, it doesn't actually heal hit points.
Stabilize would not stop the bleed damage, no. It isn't an effect that cures hit point damage: all it does is stop someone from losing health due to being in a critical condition (in negative HP). It doesn't stop you losing health from any other effect, including bleed.