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Want to add a +1 to hit with Horseshoes. How?
Want to add a +1 to hit with Horseshoes. How?
Horseshoes themselves would be an improvised weapon. You don't want to do that.
For a custom magic item you're supposed to go with the closest equivalent. In this case its an amulet of mighty fists... which would work perfectly fine on a horse.
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Want to add a +1 to hit with Horseshoes. How?
Horseshoes themselves would be an improvised weapon. You don't want to do that.
For a custom magic item you're supposed to go with the closest equivalent. In this case its an amulet of mighty fists... which would work perfectly fine on a horse.
I'll state up-front that I haven't checked the core rulebook to determine the precedence for considering horseshoes to be improvised weapons. I DO see where you're coming from, but as a GM, unless there was a clear rule to the contrary, I'd simply allow someone with Craft Magic Arms and Armor to imbue horseshoes as any other weapon. A horse trained in combat doesn't need to be proficient with horseshoes to use its natural weapons, IMO. With that established, it might even be reasonable to allow Masterwork Horseshoes which grant +1 hit, without enchanting them at all. Doesn't seem like much of a stretch to allow either.
But, then again, there's probably some obscure rule contradicting this opinion. Even if that is the case, I'd still allow the reasonable assumption that a horse neither "wields" nor must be "proficient" with horseshoes to clobber someone over the head with its hooves.
I wouldnt even consider horseshoes weapons since the rules dont give differing damages for shoed and unshoed horse the amulet is the way to go for giving the horse more Atk and Dam
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If you are trying to make weapons out of then then enchant as weapons. You could argue that horseshoes are like brass knuckles for the horses feet. But then you would get into whether you have to enchant them as a set or individually.
I think going the woundrous item and mighty fists route is the way to go. Heck it does not even need to be horse shoes, bridle of mighty fists, saddle of protection +1, saddle bags of holding, etc.
Just re-skin an existing item.
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If you are trying to make weapons out of then then enchant as weapons. You could argue that horseshoes are like brass knuckles for the horses feet. But then you would get into whether you have to enchant them as a set or individually.
I think going the woundrous item and mighty fists route is the way to go. Heck it does not even need to be horse shoes, bridle of mighty fists, saddle of protection +1, saddle bags of holding, etc.
Just re-skin an existing item.
Certainly reasonable, and a good suggestion.
I just think, per my post above, if you can enchant horseshoes with Speed or Zephyr, it's just not that much of a stretch in my mind to optionally enchant them as weapons. If the character has the thousands to blow on that sort of thing, I don't think it's going to break the game.
You brought up a good point, though, about enchanting them as a set. I'm tempted to say I'd require them to be enchanted individually. Also, it could create some interesting effects if you had, say, 1 horseshoe of Thundering and another of Frost. Could be fun and would garner the simple horse some newfound respect. ;)
There's precedent for wondrous items out of weapons. A gauntlet of rust is a gauntlet (a weapon that deals damage), but is enchanted to give a defensive effect, and can be used to cast a spell a number of times per day.
A lot of rods are treated as weapons in their description, even though they are primarily a rod magic item.
Now granted, a horseshoe doesn't have any weapon stats, but honestly.. I think that's because there aren't any horse PCs (or even Centaur PCs, for that matter). That 3rd party book on Animal PCs would very likely have some info on that kind of thing.
I'd treat them as similar to having cestus or brass knuckles. It won't modify the actual damage/crit (unless you wanted to make special ones that did.. spiked horsehoes! Cleats for Mr Ed!), but masterwork can grant a +1 bonus, and they can be enchanted as weapons.
Just do like the rods. "Treat as X" and then have a requirement of Craft Magic Arms and Armor along with Craft Wondrous Item (oh, and don't forget the special case Caster Level requirement for weapons/armor, 3 x enhancement+ or the CL of the effect if using an effect, whichever is highest).
I would definitely enchant them individually if you are getting the cost benefit from this (amulet of mighty fists gives the effect to all natural attacks, and has something like a 3x cost).
A "bridle of biting" and a "saddle of armor" are also good ideas for your pimped out "ride".
just add +1 to hit and dmg of the anamal's kick attack's
2 options
1. enchant each shoe as a +1 wpn
2. enchant the set (all 4 have to be worn) as a +1 wpn
Skip the horseshoes, just buy a masterwork horse. Voila! +1 to-hit.Want to add a +1 to hit with Horseshoes. How?
+1 lol
I say you enchant the set and all 4 have to be worn to work. Just like horseshoes of speed
Still wondering what the issue is with the amulet that you just have to have horseshoes how many magic items does your horse have that the neck slot is taken but you dont have magic horseshoes?
The OP hasn't ever responded yet. Give them time to see if they are okay with the necklace.
The rest of us are just continuing to give alternative options (and hashing them out).
Though one argument against the amulet is that it costs triple to make, and affects everything, including the bite.
It's thematically a completely different effect from having a magical horsehoe that hurts more when the animal stamps down.
Flavour, and desire of a different effect/cost.
i know was mostly making a joke about over equipped horses. Amulet is pretty high for what your getting out of it though at the same time never seen a need to upgrade my horse.
The Cavalier in our current game is focusing on defense and mobility at the moment, however if he might get his horse's attacks bumped up eventually.
It's dealt the killing blow once or twice now...
Had a Halfling outrider in a 3.5 game once 75% of his gold went to the dog it seemed that dog was brutal.
Actually the brass knuckles set a nice precedent for something cheaper than the (overpriced) amulet of mighty fists. Go with those, they're just in the shape of a horseshoe.
I guess i'm all about the necklace since as i said earlier horseshoes are technicnally weapons.
Unlike claws or bites, hooves are treated as one attack, even though the animal is usually hitting with two hooves at a time (mule kick with rear or rearing up and hitting with both from hooves), so I would not make them be enchanted individually.
Just as you can get one brass knuckle and hit with it over and over again for the price of one weapon enchantment, I would just enchant the horseshoes as a set, require all four be worn (as a balancing factor) and be done with it.
Treat them as 'gauntlets' for the horse.
Skip the horseshoes, just buy a masterwork horse. Voila! +1 to-hit.Want to add a +1 to hit with Horseshoes. How?
Bravo!
Unlike claws or bites, hooves are treated as one attack, even though the animal is usually hitting with two hooves at a time (mule kick with rear or rearing up and hitting with both from hooves), so I would not make them be enchanted individually.
- Do you have some citation for the hooves being treated as one attack? Its listed as 2 attacks.
Melee 2 hooves –2 (1d4+1)
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Unlike claws or bites, hooves are treated as one attack, even though the animal is usually hitting with two hooves at a time (mule kick with rear or rearing up and hitting with both from hooves), so I would not make them be enchanted individually.
- Do you have some citation for the hooves being treated as one attack? Its listed as 2 attacks.
Melee 2 hooves –2 (1d4+1)
Yep, even the pony is listed has having 2 hooves as its attack: Melee 2 hooves –3 (1d3)
Yeah, you might be thinking of something like the Deinonychus, that has the "foreclaws" entry (sounds like two claws, but it's one attack).
The horse has a number in front of it's hoof attack entry, so you actually roll 2 attacks.
If it just said "Melee hooves -2 (1d4+1)", then it would be only one attack.
The problem with hoof attacks is that there are 4 feet, but only two attacks (due to needing to rear to make those attacks).
However, the game is fairly loose on these terms... just like how you can technically face every direction in combat, the horse can technically favour two hooves when attacking.
It does allow 4 individual horseshoes to be magiked, and thus gives 4 different options when making those two attacks.
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Yeah, you might be thinking of something like the Deinonychus, that has the "foreclaws" entry (sounds like two claws, but it's one attack).
The horse has a number in front of it's hoof attack entry, so you actually roll 2 attacks.
If it just said "Melee hooves -2 (1d4+1)", then it would be only one attack.
The problem with hoof attacks is that there are 4 feet, but only two attacks (due to needing to rear to make those attacks).
However, the game is fairly loose on these terms... just like how you can technically face every direction in combat, the horse can technically favour two hooves when attacking.It does allow 4 individual horseshoes to be magiked, and thus gives 4 different options when making those two attacks.
Ah, fond memories of "facing" in the old school days, were flanking and rear attacks were exactly that. Now, PCs and monsters face every direction at exactly the same time... the quantum physics of combat rules.
EDIT: I guess if it was the quantum physics of combat rules, characters would actually face every direction (an infinite number) and no direction, all at the same time. I should house-rule that...
Hmmm,
I'd always assumed the Hooves entry was 2 hooves making one attack. I suppose it is read as 2 hoof attacks. I preferred it back when the used the x2 nomenclature (Claws x2 (+7, 1d4+1)) for example.
The easiest answer is you dont enchant them though a monk cant go by a set of gloves and enchant them he uses the amulet just like anyone else with natural weapons. Monks and Gauntlets might be a different but those are already listed as a weapon something that can already be enchanted.
And yet, they have Brass Knuckles that do exactly the same thing.
I'm not saying it's RAW, but thematically it makes sense.
PFS no, of course.
Check with your DM, otherwise.
No brass knuckles let you make a leathal attack with your unarmed damage. Their is no difference in a shoed or unshoed horses damage or type.
With regards to enchanting a single fist with magical effects, vs getting the amulet of mighty fists, the brass knuckles is an analogue to the discussion we are having about the horseshoe. This is as far as I've been meaning to draw parallels.
Guess the point im trying to make is doing it away from the amulet is cheaper without a doubt but as a player how would you feel if you ran into a enemy with a magical non-weapon enhancing its natural attacks?
Lets say a minotaur with +1 flaming horn tips. he easily sides steps a much higer cost on the item for the same bonuses.
I'm not sure I understand the issue. The worst I'd be worried about as a PC is that the creature I fought had an item I couldn't directly use, and would have a harder time selling... not that he got an effect for cheaper than normal. NPC wealth isn't really a big concern of mine from a player perspective, as long as the encounter is CR appropriate (or I've been dropped enough hints to be warned off a non-appropriate CR encounter).
I guess i've DM'ed too long when i look at the making the shoes enchanted as a clear way to cheap out the cost of the item.
Lets say a minotaur with +1 flaming horn tips. he easily sides steps a much higer cost on the item for the same bonuses.
Not really, because the minotaur is going to have a fixed amount of treasure. If his fixed amount is 8000gp, then you can have it be a 5000gp amulet of mighty fists and a 1000gp breastplate and a 2000gp +1 sword. Or, you can make it a 4000gp +1 flaming horn tips, a 1000gp breastplate, a 2000gp +1 sword, and a 1000gp Cloak of resistance +1. Either way, he still has the same GP value.
The horn tips still sell for 2000gp (nothing says they can't be used as enchanting material for some other enchantment, like using them as a basis for making a +2 flaming longsword, and gaining 2000gp worth of enchantment materials). The enemy still has the same amount of treasure.
Yes and his horns are now +2 total enhancement instead of +1 for 1000gp less
Yes and his horns are now +2 total enhancement instead of +1 for 1000gp less
Which doesn't affect his CR or treasure in any way.
How do you enchant Horseshoes? As a Weapon or as a Wondrous Item?heh...
Funny. But as a wondrous item.