|
So in my gaming group we have 6 players. The party consists of
Human Barbarian
Human Monk/Fighter
Human Sorcerer
Human Witch
Human Rogue
Elf Ranger/Wizard
Gnome Tinkering Cleric
The issue is out cleric player is upset that they are a heal bot and everytime it comes to a fight, they have to be in range to heal the fighters. What this person fails to understand is this is the main task. Now while the witch has the healing hex and keeps stressing to the cleric to save their healing and let the hex heal do it's job first, if there still needs to be healing, then the cleric can do it. Even with the Positive Energy bursts the Cleric is un-happy.
What do you do with an unhappy cleric that feels all they do is heal?
Can you expand a little on party composition? Example: What level are you at and what CR do you typically face?
With that size of party, there shouldn't be too much need for in-combat healing (a decidedly sub-optimal action). That said, sometimes healing is needed but that doesn't necessarily mean anyone should feel forced into the position.
Maybe the party could chip in for a wand of cure light or two and the rogue can help out with some healing (through UMD).
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is a difficult one without theoretically shafting the party, but I had a similar issue pre-Pathfinder. The cleric eventually snapped at the party and insulted their intelligence in the process - "I'm a warrior of my god, not a magical bandaid! I'm capable of tending to wounds after battles, or during in the case of extreme injuries, but I'm not running a nursery for children playing with knives! Sharpen your wits and stop leaving yourselves so open to attack, before my god decides you're not worth healing anymore..."
While that is pretty harsh, I've ran (and been in) a few games with a large number of players where the divine guy felt like a nurse with patients that pressed the button for fun.
If you can think of a tactful way to say it, I'd go with suggesting a more tactical mindset. While the Fighter and Barbarian might be in their comfort zones cutting a path through minions, diving-head first into a pool of goblins isn't always the best idea. Make the enemies come to you if you can. I'm assuming the Rouge isn't diving in head-first too... If they are, that's added stress - possibly total defense into flanking position, then letting loose? People at range (ranger/wizard, sorc, witch) could try to make use of environmental concealment or cover if/when it's available (again this assumes they don't).
Smarter combat can often lead to fewer wounds and less healing, but sometimes the dice are just against you. Making use of an area buff or two at the start with smart tactics could leave you open more often to do what you want, with a selective divine channel in the mix. Melee could also try to be a defensive wall until the sorc and ranger thin the crowds a bit, then tear open the remainder?
Sorry that I can't offer any suggestions outside tactical things...
Last game I was in had no healer, so that's my combat mindset. :)
Hopefully you can find a solution before your Cleric snaps, and tells them to do it themselves... Heh.
|
|
Can you expand a little on party composition? Example: What level are you at and what CR do you typically face?
With that size of party, there shouldn't be too much need for in-combat healing (a decidedly sub-optimal action). That said, sometimes healing is needed but that doesn't necessarily mean anyone should feel forced into the position.
Maybe the party could chip in for a wand of cure light or two and the rogue can help out with some healing (through UMD).
So we are from levels 5 - 7
Barbarian - 7Fighter/Monk - 7
Sorcerer - 7
Witch - 7
Ranger - 6
Cleric - 6
Rogue - 5
We are going through AP SS 2nd book Race to the Ruins. In the last fight we came in already hurt. The cleric decided to set off a trap that hit 5 out of the 7 party. All accept the witch and sorcerer as they got away before damage was taken. Cleric had to heal up the party. Next we came to a wall of water and the Aquaphic Witch refused to pass through the wall of water and when they dragged her through it she went screaming and fighting using slumber hexs to her best ability to protect herself. The screams allerted the enemy and fight broke out. Sadly the Barbarian ran to the beasts and as he drove them back deeper, the beasties confronted the party. The party was in a stairway as the beasties where in an open room with a spell caster proptected by a heavy fighter. Said spell caster hit the party with lightning bolt then a flaming sphere on the witch because she was targeting him. Her fireballs where usuless to his SR and his protection from fire
So CR for this party aare in the 5 - 9 range. We tent to take heavy damage. We are not in a location as to buy healing wands. We do have about half a dozen each cure light and cure modes. For the fighters to stop and drink a potion they believe it will put them behind anyway so might as well fight on.
|
Something i can suggest, temporarily remove the cleric. Let the player know before hand, and even discuse it with them. Then during one of the fights, wham they get nocked out beyond what can be healed right then.
Let the party deal with having to both survive without the healing, and also have to carry the extra weight a while.
The whole time the cleric is out, maybe they can play an npc, or run some monsters.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OK, without knowing the full dynamics of your group or the sort of campaign your GM runs, I'll take a whack at giving some advice.
First, the aquaphobic witch. That sounds like an interesting role playing decision. Certainly not optimal for the party. Does this sort of thing happen a lot in your party? Someone being so irrational that they not only attack their own friends with spells, but they scream at the top of their lungs when "dragged through" some water? If your group role plays scenarios like this frequently, I guess you might have a lot of fun, but your cleric is going to be a healbot for sure. If you even survive. Surely your party could have handled that better. Hold Person? Sleep? Silence? If I was confronted with a party member who literally went into irrational panic for having to go through water, I would dump that character at the first opportunity. What the heck happens if someone casts a water based spell on the witch? Does the witch cower from the rain? I can't think of a single character I've ever played that would realistically agree to go into danger with such a character.
A couple of people have suggested the obvious, which is that if your party is having to heal through every encounter, or even a majority of encounters, then you really need to look at your combat tactics. Healing in combat should be an absolute last resort. I am in a 3.5 campaign playing a druid, and we have two clerics in a party of four (the other member is a sorcerer). We rarely heal during combat. In most combat situations you should only heal when something completely unexpected happens. You might have to heal a couple times in a boss fight. But for most combats your healing should take place after combat is over. If your party is taking that much damage, you should probably look at all of your spellcasters' buffing capability to see if you are optimizing your attacks and defense.
Does your party concentrate fire and take the most dangerous targets down first? Do your squishy party members take advantage of cover or concealment? Do you have any ranged specialists who can ready attacks for when they see a spellcaster begin a spell? Do you utilize terrain to gain advantage? Are you able to buff up before an encounter or are you continually surprised and caught unbuffed? If so you may need to think about increasing your ability to sneak and scout.
You may be doing all those things, but usually if you do then you can survive most battles without needing healing during the fight.
In our party even if we are surprised, generally the first round my druid and both clerics buff up the party, or themselves. Our sorcerer frequently turns invisible and looks for a location where he can get cover and unleash the most damage. Our "tank" cleric buffs up his AC, as does my druid (who usually goes around in wild shape form when we are expecting a fight). Our "buffing" cleric then casts whole party buffs and/or summons a meat shield (or both if the fight is long enough). Then we all agree upon a target and do our best to concentrate fire on that target. If we are facing spell casters my druid uses readied range attacks to interrupt their spells. If we are facing several melee opponents my druid might cast "entangle" or summon yet another meat shield. Either way the goal is to keep the enemy bottled up and away from the party. Two meat shields, a buffed animal companion and a very tanky cleric can usually deal with most melee encounters long enough for the sorcerer to get a fireball off, or to use other powerful area of effect spells.
If any of our heal-capable characters ever needs to heal during battle, that is a bad, bad sign. Usually that is our clue that we might want to consider running away. And we do run away. Without shame. That's when spells like "entangle" and summoned meat shields are very valuable.
Based on your cleric having to heal as much as you describe, I think you need to consider altering your current tactical approach to combat. If you can't get through combat without requiring frequent healing, either your tactics are poor, or your GM is throwing some really tough encounters your way.
...(everything above)...
Brass hit something I'd like to double support: Running away.
Sometimes a fight is tilted too far against you - and running away is NOT a dumb thing to do! "Live to fight another day" is better than "struggle in futility against overwhelming odds while painting a ranged target on the healer's head"A lot of players approach the game with a videogame mentality these days (MMO or Console - take your pick). They've got this idea in their subconscious that there's no point in running away because you can respawn/reload, though in Pathfinder/D&D that's not really an option, and their ego often stops them from realizing it until it's far too late.
Wish I knew a way to teach new players that escape is sometimes the best option - and it IS an option!
Honestly? I'd make a new character.
OR if I was the GM. I'd stop hitting people with HP damaging effects. What good is a healbot when you are debuffed to the gills? When half the party is paralyzed under a hold person?
However this is a case of a group that doesn't understand this is not a videogame and his superior actions are ones where he's doing something other than delaying the inevitable.
Looks like the group is mostly soft casters. What the heck are they doing getting into a position to take damage. Shoo, you arrow attracting mongrels the cleric is working here.
The aquaphobic witch? Dump her. That's a liability that nearly killed the group. Roleplaying is fun but you need to be realistic. An aquaphobic person isn't going on a life of adventuring in the rain, sea, river, or otherwise.
It's at thsi point I need to ask jsut what the Gnome is actually built for? What does he do when he's not buffing/healing?
|
|
Honestly? I'd make a new character.
OR if I was the GM. I'd stop hitting people with HP damaging effects. What good is a healbot when you are debuffed to the gills? When half the party is paralyzed under a hold person?
However this is a case of a group that doesn't understand this is not a videogame and his superior actions are ones where he's doing something other than delaying the inevitable.
Looks like the group is mostly soft casters. What the heck are they doing getting into a position to take damage. Shoo, you arrow attracting mongrels the cleric is working here.
The aquaphobic witch? Dump her. That's a liability that nearly killed the group. Roleplaying is fun but you need to be realistic. An aquaphobic person isn't going on a life of adventuring in the rain, sea, river, or otherwise.
It's at thsi point I need to ask jsut what the Gnome is actually built for? What does he do when he's not buffing/healing?
Actually you could say drop the Tinkering Gnome cleric as well. As it was a Gnome who twice tickered with traps making one trap not able to be disabled and a pain. The Tinkering Gnome also set off a water trap that rushed down a tunnel and harmed 5 out of 7 team members. The rogue never had a chance to try and disarm, but the gnome just fired bolts at the trap.
As for the witch, character flaws are incouraged. Her story behind being afraid of water isd a good one. Seeing her family drowned would instill that fear as Aquaphobia is a real life phobia. it does not mean you cannot walk into water, it just says that when water gets to be X depth you panic. There are soldiers in real life that have this fear. Does this mean they are worthless? NO, they are just as good as any other soldier maybe better. When ever she has to cross water she either flies or casts walks on water. But dragging her through a pool of water that was over heard head even though she had water breathing cast on her. Imagine yourself if you can, if you had a phobia and what you do when it affects you.
As for almost getting them killed, her screams just took away the element of surprise which may or may not have helped them. The issue was the barbarian running directly into a fight as he always does, as he is impulsive. It was the witch that pretty much saved their lives with spells that harmed the enemy.
I think the root of the issue was that the cleric was trying to heal and the DM was making the Tinkering Gnome Cleric roll a to hit touch attack to heal as the party was in combat. I asked where this rule was and they could not find it so I asked as I was digging and found it on page 185 as someone posted in the rules. I really think this was causing some of the fustration of the tickering gnome cleric that they could not heal after positive energy bursts where gone that they had used up healing the party from the trap that blatently set off.
So do not point fingers at the witch, as the whole group needs to fight better instead of the fighters charging into a fight and letting the spell casters weaken and buff before the group gets in to heavy
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"Stuff"
Thing is though you never revealed any of this.
And the witch isnt made innocent by "good backstory" or "real life" examples. It endangered the lives of the party members, who to be fair, dragged her through rather than leave her behind like they should have. Especially if her reaction was going to get them killed.
Ultimately though this is not a question of the cleric, who is screwed by his own flaw of wanting to touch every mechanical device he comes across, and by DM ruling about touch spells and friendly targets. It's a question of the group turning its minor flaws and bad tactics into imminent death.
tl;dr the issue is not the cleric. It's the group as a whole.
|
"Stuff"Thing is though you never revealed any of this.
And the witch isnt made innocent by "good backstory" or "real life" examples. It endangered the lives of the party members, who to be fair, dragged her through rather than leave her behind like they should have. Especially if her reaction was going to get them killed.
Ultimately though this is not a question of the cleric, who is screwed by his own flaw of wanting to touch every mechanical device he comes across, and by DM ruling about touch spells and friendly targets. It's a question of the group turning its minor flaws and bad tactics into imminent death.
tl;dr the issue is not the cleric. It's the group as a whole.
What TarkXT said, you didn't mention the entire story. Other than thing... please use the spoiler button or something concerning your party because some people are still playing in the Serpent Skull campaign and I'd prefer not having to worry about accidently reading spoilers outside of the non-campaign subforums.
I am a great fan of great backstories and great role playing. But that means when I role play my adventurers, they act in ways that I consider to be realistic for people who are putting their lives in danger.
I recently played a wizard who was a physical coward. The party had to enter a portal where we expected to be immediately attacked. She was so fearful that she was not able to force her legs and the party had to carry her through the portal, whimpering and eyes closed.
But she did not endanger the party by screaming, panicking or using her spells against them. And if she had, I would have expected her to be abandoned by the party immediately.
There is a line between flavor and conduct dangerous to the party.
|
This is good. This should be stickied on what not to expect when you have or play a cleric. This party can seriously learn the modified adage: Fight Smarter, Not Harder. Some main points while I have the time at work:
Barbarian: Meaning Savage and primative. Not stupid. Conan knew fighting Thulsa Doom was going to be tough. Did he charge Dooms forces done a dimly lit tunnel? No. He made Thulsa's forces fight on his terms (Not bad for a guy with average to low int, but high wis).
Witch: Got no issues with her phobia, got an issue with how the group dealt with it. You never see the A-team just drag BA on a plane and fly, do you? At least you should have looked for a alternate route perhaps?
Combat in general: Are formations being used (half circle formed on the casters, perhaps)? Choice of ranged weapons over melee until ranged is no longer viable?
Tactics: There are some fights that yes, you can win, but are they worth winning? I ask this of the characters, not the players. Players will always want the exp. Characters for the most part dont care to trade an eye for a level last time I checked. Falling back and resting up, setting up a defensible postion would have probably been smart. The DM is apparently nicer than I would have been. A running pattern of combats recklessly run would have had me doing party wipes.
Quirks and Psychosis: Okay, the witch is an aquaphobic, dont take baths and dont take her on boat voyage. The Cleric (wasnt sure if it was THAT cleric) who has to touch gizmos, should be (WIS)e enough to not touch anything in a dungeon until determined safe. Repress the urge or do what most clergy do; pray to resist temptation. Or all we all playing CN Kender Bards?
HP Hoes: These are the guys who have a 105HP, get in a fight lose about 5 of it and complain they need healing. My personal rule is 10 percent or more, I might consider getting healed if offered and I know Im not resting any time soon. Of course, I try to avoid getting my face kicked in during games.
Good thread though.
All these things come into play and make a healbot (especially the reluctant ones) life and job a whole lot more easier.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is a difficult one without theoretically shafting the party, but I had a similar issue pre-Pathfinder. The cleric eventually snapped at the party and insulted their intelligence in the process - "I'm a warrior of my god, not a magical bandaid! I'm capable of tending to wounds after battles, or during in the case of extreme injuries, but I'm not running a nursery for children playing with knives! Sharpen your wits and stop leaving yourselves so open to attack, before my god decides you're not worth healing anymore..."
I like that.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is good. This should be stickied on what not to expect when you have or play a cleric. This party can seriously learn the modified adage: Fight Smarter, Not Harder. Some main points while I have the time at work:
Barbarian: Meaning Savage and primative. Not stupid. Conan knew fighting Thulsa Doom was going to be tough. Did he charge Dooms forces done a dimly lit tunnel? No. He made Thulsa's forces fight on his terms (Not bad for a guy with average to low int, but high wis).
Witch: Got no issues with her phobia, got an issue with how the group dealt with it. You never see the A-team just drag BA on a plane and fly, do you? At least you should have looked for a alternate route perhaps?
Combat in general: Are formations being used (half circle formed on the casters, perhaps)? Choice of ranged weapons over melee until ranged is no longer viable?
Tactics: There are some fights that yes, you can win, but are they worth winning? I ask this of the characters, not the players. Players will always want the exp. Characters for the most part dont care to trade an eye for a level last time I checked. Falling back and resting up, setting up a defensible postion would have probably been smart. The DM is apparently nicer than I would have been. A running pattern of combats recklessly run would have had me doing party wipes.
Quirks and Psychosis: Okay, the witch is an aquaphobic, dont take baths and dont take her on boat voyage. The Cleric (wasnt sure if it was THAT cleric) who has to touch gizmos, should be (WIS)e enough to not touch anything in a dungeon until determined safe. Repress the urge or do what most clergy do; pray to resist temptation. Or all we all playing CN Kender Bards?
HP Hoes: These are the guys who have a 105HP, get in a fight lose about 5 of it and complain they need healing. My personal rule is 10 percent or more, I might consider getting healed if offered and I know Im not resting any time soon. Of course, I try to avoid getting my face kicked in during games.
Good thread...
So to clarify what little people know of Aquaphobia
Aquaphobia is an abnormal and persistent fear of water.[1] Aquaphobia is a specific phobia that involves a level of fear that is beyond the patient's control or that may interfere with daily life.[2] People suffer aquaphobia in many ways and may experience it even though they realize the water in an ocean, a river, or even a bathtub poses no imminent threat. They may avoid such activities as boating and swimming, or they may avoid swimming in the deep ocean despite having mastered basic swimming skills.[3] This anxiety commonly extends to getting wet or splashed with water when it is unexpected, or being pushed or thrown into a body of water.
FAMOUS PEOPLE WITH AQUAPHOBIA
Winona Ryder
Natalie Wood Fell OFF a boat and drowned... yes she was on a boat
Jason Voorhees
Now question. How many of you had to take swimming in High School or latter or possibly trained as a lifeguard? When a person panics they cannot help what they do. A perdon drowning in water will wrap their arms about you as tight as they can and TRY to climb to safety and thus possibly drowning the person who was trying to save them and then even a trained person COULD start to panic.
Someone afraid of Bee's and I'd be willing to bet that the majority of you out there will swat at a bee or a wasp in "Panic" and thus anger the critter to sting you. Do it with more around and your in deep trouble. A horse will toss a rider faster IF that horse knows you are not comfortble or afraid. A dog will bit if it knows you are afraid.
People who panic CAN and WILL do irrational thigs and that includes harming those that get in their way or try to prevent them from getting away. Panic is an emotion even the bravest person cannot control. And once that panic sets in... Watch out.
So be it RL or a RPG, quirks are real. Not everyone is the "perfect hero"
As for the cleric... yes one in the same that tinkers and would rather shoot a crossbow at an enemy than cast bless, but has casted bless in times. No argument this group does NOT work well togather. Which BTW the witch has been trying to do but NEVER tells the others how to do their job.
Was their alternatives for the group or the witch? You can guess on that answer, there is usually ALWAYS more than 1 answer or way, it's just the party... not the witch decided on this method. I personally would have put her to sleep, or charmed her or commanded her. But not ONCE did she physically harm a party member, nor has she ever.
As a DM I would more than likely award extra XP for someone who RP's a flaw instead of just "saying" they had a flaw. I may even award them an extra HP on character to creation for a flaw. To me flaws add life. No one... not one single person is perfect in any way.
I like that.This is a difficult one without theoretically shafting the party, but I had a similar issue pre-Pathfinder. The cleric eventually snapped at the party and insulted their intelligence in the process - "I'm a warrior of my god, not a magical bandaid! I'm capable of tending to wounds after battles, or during in the case of extreme injuries, but I'm not running a nursery for children playing with knives! Sharpen your wits and stop leaving yourselves so open to attack, before my god decides you're not worth healing anymore..."
Me too.
party stuff
The sleep thing is a matter of opinion so I will just say I disagree and leave it at that.
A player telling another player how to play is one thing, but in-character it make sense as long as it is the character doing it, and not a player using the character as an excuse. Asking for a flank or something similar is not a bad idea as an example. If they don't want to comply just make your character more independent as a solution.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Re: Aquaphobia
Nobody is arguing about the clinical description of aquaphobia. We are suggesting that choosing aquaphobia as a character trait is perhaps a poor choice of backstory flavor, and that the role playing of the trait is perhaps a bit too extreme.
My stepmother had a bird phobia. One day a bird got into the house through a chimney. She was terrified. She did not dissolve into a screaming, pulsating mass of panicked flesh. She did not start clawing at her children to get out of the room. She was terrified, not turned into a raving lunatic.
There's a difference. Roleplaying aquaphobia as a condition that results in your witch attacking your own party with powerful combat spells is a role playing decision that I personally question, and if your character did that in my party, I would dump your character at the first opportunity. If you persisted in role playing in such a counter productive way, I would dump you as a player.
That's all.
|
|
Re: Aquaphobia
Nobody is arguing about the clinical description of aquaphobia. We are suggesting that choosing aquaphobia as a character trait is perhaps a poor choice of backstory flavor, and that the role playing of the trait is perhaps a bit too extreme.
My stepmother had a bird phobia. One day a bird got into the house through a chimney. She was terrified. She did not dissolve into a screaming, pulsating mass of panicked flesh. She did not start clawing at her children to get out of the room. She was terrified, not turned into a raving lunatic.
There's a difference. Roleplaying aquaphobia as a condition that results in your witch attacking your own party with powerful combat spells is a role playing decision that I personally question, and if your character did that in my party, I would dump your character at the first opportunity. If you persisted in role playing in such a counter productive way, I would dump you as a player.
That's all.
How is Hex Slumber harmful? It could be IF... IF it was in the middle of a combat.
and I'd be willing to bet had someone shoved a bird in your poor grandmothers face, she would have gotten hysterical and who knows what. Do you know of anyone with a fear of water? My ex was and IF he got in water over 3 feet deep (for a 6'foot) They paniced. They would litterly FREAK OUT. The same would happen if you sprayed them with the garden hose. The witch ONLY got upset once they picked her up and DRAGGED her through the water. There WHERE other options but the party did NOT want to approach them. NOR did they want to let her approach those options
|
|
How is Hex Slumber harmful? It could be IF... IF it was in the middle of a combat.
How is beating someone with non-lethal damage until they are unconscious harmful?
Either one is a hostile act to a fellow party member that is less than lethal and IMO in the same category. If you start tossing spells/ hexes/ non-lethal attacks at party members in my group you can plan on parting ways immediately.
At the time the characters members don't know whether the witch is using non-lethal or lethal abilities unless they make a spellcraft check. If someone tosses a spell at a party member out of the blue, they should at the very least expect to get subdued with non-lethal and left behind.
If someone is willing to let their fear overcome them that way this time how am I to predict in the future how they might react? If a witch can't control her substantial powers when she panics then maybe next time she might use something more lethal. I wouldn't go near a witch who can't handle her powers any more than I would go near a panicky guy with a gun.
|
|
As for the original post, the answer is to remove the expectation that people will be healed during combat. They can use preventative measures, wands, potions, whatever. I've discovered that when people realize they have to use their own actions to do in combat healing they figure out ways to avoid it but as long as they can lean on a combat medic they will.
Questionably absurd roleplaying decisions aside, you asked how we would help deal with the situation you described over a couple posts. We offered suggestions. Criticisms about in-character actions, cool or not, are relevant to suggestions about how to handle your issue. The same applies to the cleric who seems to, by your description, enjoy messing with traps as it does the issues with the witch's in-character phobia.
Out of curiosity, what role do you fill in this party? Player? GM? If player, which character? It might help distance the discussion from the roleplaying criticisms and address tactics.
Part of me thinks they might be playing the Witch, considering their defense of the phobia...
People aren't trying to bash you or the game - they're just trying to pick up each problem they see and offer suggestions to alleviate the cleric a bit. Despite confusing wording, good is intended.
Something to consider: neutral cleric channeling negative energy. "Can't, that was my only prepared heal" and the ever delicious "Sorry, I spontaneously converted my last cure into an inflict."
|
|
Something to consider: neutral cleric channeling negative energy. "Can't, that was my only prepared heal" and the ever delicious "Sorry, I spontaneously converted my last cure into an inflict."
Ugh... negative channeling clerics work great for NPCs and are pretty weak for PCs. Having a positive channeler who only channels when people drop or out of combat is more effective and works just as well.
Re: Aquaphobia
Nobody is arguing about the clinical description of aquaphobia. We are suggesting that choosing aquaphobia as a character trait is perhaps a poor choice of backstory flavor, and that the role playing of the trait is perhaps a bit too extreme.
My stepmother had a bird phobia. One day a bird got into the house through a chimney. She was terrified. She did not dissolve into a screaming, pulsating mass of panicked flesh. She did not start clawing at her children to get out of the room. She was terrified, not turned into a raving lunatic.
There's a difference. Roleplaying aquaphobia as a condition that results in your witch attacking your own party with powerful combat spells is a role playing decision that I personally question, and if your character did that in my party, I would dump your character at the first opportunity. If you persisted in role playing in such a counter productive way, I would dump you as a player.
That's all.
How is Hex Slumber harmful? It could be IF... IF it was in the middle of a combat.
and I'd be willing to bet had someone shoved a bird in your poor grandmothers face, she would have gotten hysterical and who knows what. Do you know of anyone with a fear of water? My ex was and IF he got in water over 3 feet deep (for a 6'foot) They paniced. They would litterly FREAK OUT. The same would happen if you sprayed them with the garden hose. The witch ONLY got upset once they picked her up and DRAGGED her through the water. There WHERE other options but the party did NOT want to approach them. NOR did they want to let her approach those options
Well, since you came here looking for advice on how to avoid the cleric becoming a healbot, but every time someone says "Well, your tactics might need tweaking" or "your aquaphobic witch might be interesting for role playing, but she is creating problems for your party" you get all defensive and start going off on what I consider to be totally irrelevant tangents about the symptoms of phobias as if you are some sort of clinical expert on the subject.
So, it appears to me that you really only want sympathy. So I will comply.
"Gee. That sucks. I would hate that. I really think you are getting a raw deal. I hope your GM changes the campaign to be more to your liking. Good luck and enjoy the game!!!"
What do you do with an unhappy cleric that feels all they do is heal?
Kill stuff faster. Buff better. Battlefield Control better.
Tell the cleric to try out the Shield Other spell on the Barbarian as a buff.
Also, I think the aquaphobia thing is pretty freaking cool, personally. Take it in game, don't harsh on the player for playing a non-optimal character.
|
Also, I think the aquaphobia thing is pretty freaking cool, personally. Take it in game, don't harsh on the player for playing a non-optimal character.
I agree. And phobias come in varying degrees of severity. The witch's aquaphobia is obviously pretty sever and I don't really blame her for freaking out and using hex's on party members since they did (at least in her mind) attack her.
As for the player not wanting to be a heal bot, have him tell the rest of the party that any in combat healing will be very situational and infrequent. If people want healing in combat, they can start using potions. When you can, get a couple wands of cure light wounds for use out of combat.
|
|
Also, I think the aquaphobia thing is pretty freaking cool, personally. Take it in game, don't harsh on the player for playing a non-optimal character.
I think it's a cool idea until you start tossing spells/ hexes at other players.
I like characters with interesting personalities. Not so much ones that are dangerous to be around.
|
|
Also, I think the aquaphobia thing is pretty freaking cool, personally. Take it in game, don't harsh on the player for playing a non-optimal character.I think it's a cool idea until you start tossing spells/ hexes at other players.
I like characters with interesting personalities. Not so much ones that are dangerous to be around.
If the events are as described, I think that party started it when they decided to drag her through the waterfall. That's a pretty damned aggressive action, and I'd be really pissed if someone decided they were just going to pick up my character and move her wherever they decided she should go.
|
|
If the events are as described, I think that party started it when they decided to drag her through the waterfall. That's a pretty damned aggressive action, and I'd be really pissed if someone decided they were just going to pick up my character and move her wherever they decided she should go.Also, I think the aquaphobia thing is pretty freaking cool, personally. Take it in game, don't harsh on the player for playing a non-optimal character.I think it's a cool idea until you start tossing spells/ hexes at other players.
I like characters with interesting personalities. Not so much ones that are dangerous to be around.
Agreed. Its like telling the Pally they need to slaughter all the children in town and then get indignant when he balks and says no. Even standing against them when they try it. The root problem for the cleric is that the party is operating at level that will get them wiped or worse: The players break up.
|
|
I played an insane Cleric in 3.5 that was absolutely terrified of mindless undead. It was a blast, espevcially as I didn't tell anyone, but hinted at it in rp. It became very interesting as we started playing Exp to Castle Ravenloft, which sadly ended before we finished for other reasons.
But i never screwed the party over. The absolute worst i ever did was run and hide behind the wizard in our first zombie vs the house encounter and cry like a little girl for a round or two.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Clerics main task is to progress and have fun, and to stay alive.
Im a combat medic in RL, and my job is not to hide (30 ft away) but to return fire until all the "badguys" are dead or down. Then to come out and start to healing. That has upped the survivability rate of wounded soldiers by about 75%.
That being said, if the player is not having fun, and everyone knows why they are responsible, they need to start doing something to change that. At least half the party can heal, and at least 100% of the party can change their tactics. It is not the Clerics job to burn through healing and not get to do anything else.
I wouldn't be surprised if the player quitted, not only the character but the group if this keeps happening. Would you want to play basically an NPC follower sidekick? I personally hate it when groups try to pull that on me, as i often play the Cleric. I got the point that after a few levels, i require the party to buy wands and scrolls if they want much more than emergancy healing. I am going to let them die, but im not going to be taken advantage if either. Especially in a way that they wouldn't towards any other class.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Interesting thread. I played a cleric once who was also primarily treated as the "healing battery". Not the whole party, but 3 of 5 essentially did not take care of themselves, made jokes about his faith, acted on several occasions against his alignment (like coup de gracing a bound enemey; his alignment was good), ignored his requests (in character), were inattentive and a caused a commotion in his deity's temple when he was performing a ritual to bring a fallen comrade back from the dead...
I basically ditched the character. He walked away from the party as he could not bear with their behaviour anymore. I then brought in an arcane caster / warrior mix with some limited healing ability through auras (3.5 splatbook stuff). It was almost comical when after the first fight (15 minutes into the game day!) when they were wounded and asked for him to heal them that he told them: "Heal you? I am not a cleric. I can do a little for you, but no more than this..." They decided to rest for the day to recover. And the next day they acted the same. And they rested again. Then group dynamics kicked in and the other members told them (in character) to finally take more care of themselves, after all they were on a mission and had a deadline to keep.
Since that time everything has much better, but we have to hire (and pay!) a cleric to fill the void of the previous character. But it's been a lot more fun for me this way :-)
|
|
If the Cleric does not tell the other PCs to start playing smart instead of relying on the healbot, then his god (ie the GM) should. By refusing the effect of the healing spell to those the god feels are abusing his follower's gifts.
This should remind the PCs that a Cleric's powers do come from a deity with a specific dogma and a specific agenda.
|
|
Having spoken the other night to the partner of the person that plays the cleric I got more depth as to what the issue is.
1.) Having to make touch attack rolls to friendly units to make a heal. This was a rule the DM had and always has had but since we said and the DM was NOT aware that when making touch attacks to a friendly who wanted the healing you did not need to make a touch attack roll to heal them.
2.)The Gnome Cleric is not working out the way the person invisioned the character to be. But all in the group are trying to help them figure out what it is they want so we can help them as a player and if needed as characters.
Granted our group is not perfect, no group is, and then add in character quarks that each one has. No hero was ever perfect. In fact the best hero's are flawed. Achillies, Hercules and many others in mthy, legends and lit.
One thing is we went from 1 person that we refer to as a tyrant that controlled EVERYTHING anyone did. he controlled the game and it really made others mad. A Monk that believed in and used Slavery and deception as a deciet to try and gain political favor. Not Lawful to me. So as this group grows, we each learn our spot as characters. Trust me not all adventures we have are this way, and I can honestly say in the 32 years of playing D&D, I have seen a lot. I've seen parties and character of many different types played as a "Cookie cutter" and bland, to a character that had more depth and personality than some RL gamers I know.
Thanks for the feedback to those that offered it about the Cleric
|
|
Wow... that's a great deal different than what I understood the issue to be.
For the Cure Spells, theCleric does indeed need to touch the target, though does not need to make an attack roll or anything. It is automatic IF the target is willing.
Also, with insantanious melee touch spells, (cure and inflicts fall in this), if you do miss, you can simply try to touch again next round. The spell is not wasted, unless you touh something else with that hand, like grab a weapon.
In fact, doing this allows you to either make the tuch attack as part of a full attack action, or to add other traits to it, like possibly power attack or something you normally couldn't, because casting the spell is itself a standard action.
Slavery itself is not unlawful. Lawful, (open to interpretation), means more that the person believes in order, in keeping to schedules, and following traditions and paterns. Working within and through a system.
As long as slaves are treated with certain humane dignities, not cheated or mistreated, not taken advantage of, it is possible to be a LG and be a part of slavery. It really just depends, and people have their own notions of what slavery is and means, also.
|
|
Wow... that's a great deal different than what I understood the issue to be.
For the Cure Spells, theCleric does indeed need to touch the target, though does not need to make an attack roll or anything. It is automatic IF the target is willing.
Also, with insantanious melee touch spells, (cure and inflicts fall in this), if you do miss, you can simply try to touch again next round. The spell is not wasted, unless you touh something else with that hand, like grab a weapon.
In fact, doing this allows you to either make the tuch attack as part of a full attack action, or to add other traits to it, like possibly power attack or something you normally couldn't, because casting the spell is itself a standard action.
Slavery itself is not unlawful. Lawful, (open to interpretation), means more that the person believes in order, in keeping to schedules, and following traditions and paterns. Working within and through a system.
As long as slaves are treated with certain humane dignities, not cheated or mistreated, not taken advantage of, it is possible to be a LG and be a part of slavery. It really just depends, and people have their own notions of what slavery is and means, also.
Correct the cleric never tried NOT touching, the DM was just making them roll the dice to make a touch attack and this caused a lot of fustration. Never had we or they had to do that. If a person is unwhilling it is totally understandable to make the casterr roll a touch attack. But when it is a friendly that does want the heal then no roll need be made. per the CRG page 158 (I may be wrong as I cannot verify this moment on the page). No spell was ever lost in not making the touch attack, it just caused fustrations.
The other stuff need not be discusted.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The issue is out cleric player is upset that they are a heal bot and everytime it comes to a fight, they have to be in range to heal the fighters. What this person fails to understand is this is the main task
With respect, man - F that noise.
Your problem is not that the cleric character does not understand his role. Your problem is that one of the players is not enjoying game. If you feel so acutely that people should do their allotted tasks, why don't you swap characters with the other player? You be healbot! You do it! And if you don't want to do this because you'd find it boring - well dude, you should think about that for a bit.
I had a similar issue pre-Pathfinder. The cleric eventually snapped at the party and insulted their intelligence in the process - "I'm a warrior of my god, not a magical bandaid! I'm capable of tending to wounds after battles, or during in the case of extreme injuries, but I'm not running a nursery for children playing with knives! Sharpen your wits and stop leaving yourselves so open to attack, before my god decides you're not worth healing anymore..."
I'm thinking of running a minmaxed healbot for pfs. I'll give him a dex and str of 8, which fluff-wise will be because he's outrageously old and slightly blind. And deaf. "What's that, boy? Can't hear you! You want me to shimmy across that rope? At my age? Light of Saranrae! If only I *could* shimmy across ropes like you whippersnappers!"
As in - ok guys, you want a healbot? Cool. But deal with this.
You should not be casting Heal spells in combat period. With the exception that someone is about to bleed out and die.
I play a Dwarf cleric in my current game, and I have made it very clear to my party "I'm using my spells to buff ME, not heal you. You can get the few channels I have and maybe a cure spell if I have slots left over, AFTER the fight."
Paul, you are practicing necromancy on this thread. It is over 3 years old.