With these two teams there have been lots of members, so I just picked the six that I liked from each team, and I will go from there:
The Justice League of America: Superman, The Batman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder-Woman, and The Green Arrow.
The Avengers: Thor, Captain America, Iron-Man, Quicksilver, Hawkeye, and Ms. Marvel.
The results that you won't agree with:
The obvious matchups start. Thor fights Superman. Captain America fights Batman. The Flash fights Quicksilver. The Green Lantern fights Iron-Man. Wonder-Woman fights Ms. Marvel. Hawkeye fights Green Arrow.
Because Thor is a God, and his hammer Mjǫlnir is magical, he knocks out Superman (the Brandon Routh version). Captain America knocks out Batman. The Flash easily takes care of Quicksilver. The Green Lantern is able to destroy Iron-Man's armor. Wonder-Woman knocks out Ms. Marvel. Hawkeye knocks out the Green Arrow.
That leaves Thor, Captain America, Hawkeye v. The Flash, Wonder-Woman, and Green Lantern.
Thor takes on Wonder-Woman, and the two god-like characters have an epic battle, but do you really think Thor would let some girl beat him up? He blasts her with his hammer, and then ties her up with her own Lasso of Truth.
The Flash is just too quick for Captain America, and even though Steve Rogers tries to anticipate Barry Allen's moves, he can't fight someone running at twice the speed of sound and he gets knocked out.
Hawkeye kills the Green Lantern with a "yellow colored arrow" to the head.
That leaves Thor and Hawkeye v. The Flash. The Flash, moving so fast he can't be seen, takes out and kills Hawkeye by vibrating through him and then starts to attack Thor. However, Thor is a GOD! The Flash attacks Thor hundreds of times before he can even react, and he does "hurt" the thunder god, but Thor's calls on the power of the storm and ODIN himself, and he unleases the Thunder of Thor by slamming Mjǫlnir onto the ground, and the explosion of power knocks The Flash off his feet for a moment. Startled, it leaves Thor the moment he needs to tear Barry Allen's head off.
The Avengers win!
Why did it get so lethal and bloody at the end there? Why couldn't they have had a friendly tussle?
Because Leafar is a weird troll. Just don't talk directly at it and it should go away.
And, yes, I may be a little mad.
Because Leafar is a weird troll. Just don't talk directly at it and it should go away.
And, yes, I may be a little mad.
just a little bit, yes. Why not come up with results you feel would be more realistic? I don't think cap would beat on bats so easily, but their battle would be an epic one. I do see Thor taking out ww, if only because he is a full fledged god, not an empowered construct or semi divine mortal. Flash has quicksilver beat hands down, i think either hawkeye or green arrow would decide the cap /bat fight. Ms. Marvel goes down easily against Superman. i think Iron Man would take out GL if it was Kyle Rayner.
I think Superman and Flash would move close to the speed of light and take out everone but Thor in about 1/10,000 of a second. After that its Thor vs the league. If things go badly the Flash can always just jump back in time and kill Thors host before he gets the hammer or is even born.
The Flash is one of the most over the top OP heros ever. There really is no fair fights with Barry Allen
We have a problem. Hawkeye is officially a member of both groups, due to cross over continuity.
Also I dispute the line ups for both groups.
New Line ups
The Avengers as per The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes
The team includes Thor, Captain America, Hawkeye, Black Panther, the incredible Hulk, Wasp, Ant-Man, and their leader Iron Man.
VS.
Justice League as per Justice League
Superman, Flash (Wally West),Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern(John Stewart), Martian Manhunter, Hawkgirl. Just to have the same number of characters we shall add Aquaman.
Go......
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So now we have three super-speed characters in the JLA (Superman, Martian Manhunter, Flash) and Wonder Woman close behind, versus Marvel's best? Linked together telepathically with Batman?
As Taigon suggested, there's no contest. Before the Avengers even realize what's going on, Superman has punched Hulk into high-earth orbit, the Flash hs hit Captain America 500 times, and the Martian Manhunter has done the same with Iron Man, but with Superman-level strength. Then Wonder Woman joins Superman and the Martian Manhunter against Thor.
Which leaves Hawkeye versus Batman and the Flash; Black Panther versus Hawkgirl, Aquaman, and the Flash; and Ant Man and the Wasp against Green Lantern and the Flash.
Hawkeye tells Wanda the JLA stole her babies.
Avengers win :-)
Also don't forget if they fight in the Marvel U, Flash is screwed. It really depends on where they fight.
Good call.... Chaos Magic is so pervasive and powerful in the JL universe if Scarlet Witch is involved she brings the proverbial smack down on everyone but Dr. Fate.
Martian Manhunter alone could give the Avengers a very tough fight. Let's cross Marvel's Sentry, Vision, Mystique, Cyclops, and Professor X into one guy and see what we get.......we get J'onn J'onzz!
+1
Everyone always ignores poor J'onn J'onzz.
Because Leafar is a weird troll. Just don't talk directly at it and it should go away.
I agree 100%.
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Martian Manhunter alone could give the Avengers a very tough fight. Let's cross Marvel's Sentry, Vision, Mystique, Cyclops, and Professor X into one guy and see what we get.......we get J'onn J'onzz!
+1
Everyone always ignores poor J'onn J'onzz.
One of my favorite lines from Blackest Night was when Black Lantern Martian Manhunter was battling GL and Flash. He said something like....
"I'm as strong as Superman. Why does everyone forget that?"
Not those exact words, but pretty close. One of his best fights ever was the 80's run of JLA, in the Annual he takes on the rest of the League when they've all been taken over by a sentient disease.
One of my favorite lines from the Jutice League: New Frontiers DVD was when Batman confronts Martian Manhunter and says to him "I paid 10,000 dollars for a kryptonite bullet, for you all I need is a pack of matches."
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Martian Manhunter alone could give the Avengers a very tough fight. Let's cross Marvel's Sentry, Vision, Mystique, Cyclops, and Professor X into one guy and see what we get.......we get J'onn J'onzz!
+1
Everyone always ignores poor J'onn J'onzz.
I first 'met' J'onn in the DCAU. They downplayed his powers to pretty much the telepathy/density control/strength/shape shifting. (Plus Carl Lumly hit his voice perfectly to me)
In Young Justice, M'gann seems to be Jean Grey and Mystique (shape shifting/telekinesis/telepathy).
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Don't you mean everybody loses? That's the way it turned out last time Wanda was involved in anything. Everybody lost. The X-Men, the Avengers, the readers......Hawkeye tells Wanda the JLA stole her babies.
Avengers win :-)
Well yeah...
I'm curious with this 'Children's crusade' storyline if they're going to redeem Wanda*, considering she's likely as much a mass murderer as her father**
*
**
***
The Scarlet Witch was insane, so she was not legally responsible for any crimes she committed, up to and including murder. Wanda doesn't need to be punished; she is sick and she needs help.
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The Scarlet Witch was insane, so she was not legally responsible for any crimes she committed, up to and including murder. Wanda doesn't need to be punished; she is sick and she needs help.
Oddly enough, this was Claremont and Byrne's argument regarding Jean Grey in the original Dark Phoenix saga. The Phoenix-level power had driven her crazy. She'd be punished for her rampage -- the Shi-ar Empire would psychically lobotomize her back to the powers and personality she showed in X-Men issues 1 - 5 -- but she didn't deserve to die.
Jim Shooter, Marvel EIC at the time, saw a picture of Phoenix's rampage and saw that she'd set a sun to go noval, killing an entire planet of Broccoli-people. Shooter was firm that murder, even under those circumstances, had to be punished by death. So, Jean telekinetically turned ancient weapons on the moon against herself.
(Hope I didn't spoil that for anybody.)
Byrne was chagrinned to find out later, from an attorney friend, that American law already provides for an iron-tight defense, something called the doctrine of diminished responsibility. Apparently, the first couple of seconds after you wake up, or any other time you're not quite oriented, you aren't legally responsible for anything you do. (Court case: a gunslinger in the 1800's woke up and shot a man for snoring.) Jean's Phoenix-level power was new to her, and she needed some time to adjust. Diminished responsibility. Besides, Byrne argued, the Broccoli-people were, um, masquerading Dire Wraiths.
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The Scarlet Witch was insane, so she was not legally responsible for any crimes she committed, up to and including murder. Wanda doesn't need to be punished; she is sick and she needs help.Oddly enough, this was Claremont and Byrne's argument regarding Jean Grey in the original Dark Phoenix saga. The Phoenix-level power had driven her crazy. She'd be punished for her rampage -- the Shi-ar Empire would psychically lobotomize her back to the powers and personality she showed in X-Men issues 1 - 5 -- but she didn't deserve to die.
<snippage>
I was rather amused in the 90's cartoon how it was still the D'bari system, but you had the Shi'ar ship go and say "It's a good thing that system was uninhabited. Imagine what it would be like if there had been a populated world there." Um, I didnt have to imagine, I read the book :-)
Thus my suggestion of Ravita's cure, or duct tape and Leech.
to go back to the OP if you are talking barry allen then its 80's JLA you know the one where Supes moves Moons and J'onn and Diana are right on his heels. So dont try and slide in the gimpy Routh version into the mix. As to magic lightining well even Shazam had to hit him what 5-6 times with the magic lightning bolt trick before he was dazed in Kingdom Come. Luckily for the Avengers that means that its pre speed force Flash with the creating gravity wells behind him and stealing superspeed form other speedsters. So time travel, dimensional travel, intangibility and air control are the tricks hes bringing to the table along wiht moving at near light speed. Yea Barry, J'onn, and Kal-el by themselves obliterate the Avengers god forbid it be serious enough Supes threatens to push the moon into the earth to get the Avengers to back down. That is of course assuming J'onn just dosen't go in and turn thier consciousness off to avoid senseless battle. Thanks to Marvel Vs DC comics from the 90's we in fact already know the outcome of Bats vs Cap (psst Cap looses)
Note that if it's Flash vs Thor, all he has to do is grab Cap's shield, and he's effectively immune to the hammer. One shield blow at light speed, and Thor is down for the count,too.
And if Superman doesn't want to get hit by the hammer, he won't be. All he has to do is get into a grapple, and he'll mangle Thor like he did the Hulk. And let's not forget that he's Worthy, and could actually use the hammer AGAINST THOR.
Bad examples all the way. Also don't see how Hawkeye going to beat the updated Green Arrow...we're not using the New Universe Marvel guy who is the 'deadliest human alive' and can kill someone by throwing his fingernails into their throat. Before that, he's just a schmuck with a bow who knows how to box a little. Green Arrow at least has some zen for impossible shots.
Cap will beat Batman. In combat, Cap is every bit as skilled as Bats, but Cap is a Super Solider, and Batman is human.
I personally think Tony Stark could out-think Green Lantern, but in raw power, and if GL just brought it fast and furious, he's down.
==Aelryinth
A. The fight would NEVER go to the death, and i truly believe the marvel heroes who MAY win, would have too much respect for the other heroes to kill them...and hawkeye...uh...okay... maybe he would kill...uh...ok
B. Superman can fly NEARLY THE SPEED OF LIGHT, thor cant keep up, even though Thor can HARM superman, it won't instantly kill him, superman can go toe to to with Capt. Marvel (who oddly enough is a DC hero) his equal in strength but from magic and will usually win.
C. I honestly believe batman would match up with ironman, but they would most likely go to a draw, with a double concede after standing still for a few days looking for an opening.
D. Hawkeye vs. Green arrow...uh... This is where i think it would go south for Marvel... Hawkeye would WIN...killing Oliver Queen... then to the JLA this is no longer a friendly spar... this is outright murder...and the JLA would call whatever heroes necessary to take hawkeye down. Even if the Avengers side with hawkeye after that (which i don't believe they would) even calling in the hulk wouldn't be able to take on Superman, Supergirl, Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel, and Power Girl at the same time.
E. Yellow hasn't been a weakness of Green Lanterns for YEARS not sense the 70's, only rookies have a problem with it now.
The Scarlet Witch was insane, so she was not legally responsible for any crimes she committed, up to and including murder. Wanda doesn't need to be punished; she is sick and she needs help.
Wolverine has just the thing to help her out.
*snikt*
Thanks to Marvel Vs DC comics from the 90's we in fact already know the outcome of Bats vs Cap (psst Cap looses)That was as a result of voting, and may thus be dispensed with as the opinion of the illiterate masses.
Yeah! How dare those troglodytes vote for the character they like better? Don't they realize it flies in the face of all logic as espoused by superior people like you? SHEESH!! The nerve of some people!
Actually, yellow has only not been a problem since the oo's, when Rayner got the new, improved Ring. Took a while to replicate it and re-empower the Corps. I was definitely getting GL books in the 90's where yellow was a problem.
==Aelryinth
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Which leaves Hawkeye versus Batman and the Flash; Black Panther versus Hawkgirl, Aquaman, and the Flash; and Ant Man and the Wasp against Green Lantern and the Flash.
Bold added by me.
I lolled.
Because Leafar is a weird troll. Just don't talk directly at it and it should go away.
And, yes, I may be a little mad.
This is true. While I understand he's a uber Marvel fanboy, I do enjoy reading some of these threads, as it poses some interesting discussion.
The Flash is on there 3 times deliberately, because he's so fast. Hope you didn't think that was an error!
==Aelryinth
Vision is and has been an Avenger for a long long time; not an original mind you; but still a long time. Vison vs Martian Manhunter would be a very good contest and very equal.
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I just wanted to point out that the title is deceptive. Everyone keeps breaking down these fights into 1 vs 1's and then moving on to who's left. I would see any clash like this ACTUALLY coming down to a group fight, switching out opponents before they're even done to help whoever else out.
Teamwork and switch hitting ... that's what I could see this coming down to. Depending on who's on what team I could see this going either way.
I'm not listening to the little voice that tells me to shut up and ignore this ridiculous debate.
Stan Lee was always being asked "who would win between" and he got very tired of this kind of question because the answer is blindingly obvious. The one who the plot requires to win. These are fictional characters with every changing powers and abilities depending on who is writing them and what will be entertaining for the reader. This has, for example, allowed Spiderman to triumph over characters vastly more powerful than he, (and Batman too, although I am not as familiar with DC). Might as well ask who would win between my 6th level Sorcerer/1st level Barbarian/2nd level Eldritch Knight and your 5th level Rogue/4th level Fighter.
Incidentally, the Avengers DID fight the JLA on Earth 712, although for copyright reasons of course they were renamed "Squadron Supreme" by Buscema. I can't remember the outcome though (lineup for the Avengers was Vision, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Goliath). (Avengers #85)
I'm not listening to the little voice that tells me to shut up and ignore this ridiculous debate.
I've been trying to listen to that voice since the first of these threads.
Also JLA vs Avengers ends in a tie. And that's canon.
Krona, an exiled Oan rogue with powers of entropy, travels across various universes seeking the truth of creation, and destroys the universes in the process. His search brings him to the Marvel Universe, where the Grandmaster intercepts him when he tries to send more probes back through time and proposes a deal: that they play a game, and if Krona wins, he will be led to the one being in that universe who has witnessed creation (Galactus). If he loses, Krona has to spare the Grandmaster’s universe. Krona accepts, and the players are chosen; the Grandmaster’s longtime adversaries the Avengers are selected to fight on Krona’s side, and the Justice League from Krona’s home universe will oppose them.
The Grandmaster soon sets the game in motion with Metron as his ally. He informs the League that they have to gather twelve items of power (six from each universe - the DC items being the Spear of Destiny; the Book of Eternity; the Orb of Ra; the Psycho Pirate's Medusa Mask; the Bell, Jar and Wheel of the Demons Three; and the Green Lantern Power Battery of Kyle Rayner; and the Marvel items being the Ultimate Nullifier; the Evil Eye of Avalon; the Wand of Watoomb; the Casket of Ancient Winters; the Cosmic Cube; and the Infinity Gems) to save a universe, while Metron tells the Avengers that they have to stop the League to prevent their world being destroyed. The League travels to the Marvel Universe, and Superman is disgusted at various conditions which show the ineffectuality of the Avengers (the Hulk running rampant, the destruction of Genosha, Dr. Doom’s tyrannical reign of Latveria, etc.) while Captain America, seeing the state of the DC Universe, gets an impression that the League are fascists who demand that common citizens worship them. When the two teams meet in DC’s Metropolis, the bitter feelings of the team leaders spark off a battle royale.
The battle ends abruptly as the Scarlet Witch discovers that her control of chaos magic has given her immeasurable power in the DC Universe. The hunt for the items of power begins, as various Leaguers and Avengers travel across the two universes and fight each other to retrieve the artifacts. The score becomes tied, and a final battle for the Cosmic Cube takes place in Marvel’s Savage Land. The Avengers seem to gain the upper hand until Batman, who had earlier formed a truce with Captain Americato investigate the reasons for this contest, regains the Cube with the help of the latter. The Grandmaster arrives and announces the Justice League as the victors, and asks Krona to leave his universe. Krona, refusing to be denied, attacks the Grandmaster, summons Galactus and attempts to beat the truth out of him. The Grandmaster uses his remaining strength to utilize the power of the artifacts, and merges both universes together.
As a result, reality is altered such that the Justice League and Avengers have been allies since both the teams’ formations. However Superman and Captain America, both strongly attuned to their respective universes’ frequency, sense that the world is not right. Soon, the universes, being incompatible with each other, begin destroying themselves. The core members of each team (consisting of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), The Flash (Barry Allen), Aquaman and the Martian Manhunter from the League; and Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, The Wasp, Giant-Man, the Vision and The Scarlet Witch from the Avengers) join forces to avert the crisis. The Phantom Stranger leads them to a dying Grandmaster, who explains the situation: that Krona is merging the universes further to destroy them.
The Grandmaster asks the assembled heroes to stop Krona and restore order. The heroes, whose memories have been altered by the merging of the Universes, demand to know what the world was like before this incident. The Grandmaster shows them various events that had taken place in their universes, and each team member witnesses the tragedies that had befallen them: the deaths of heroes like Superman, Lantern and Flash; loss of the heroes’ loved ones (Odin, Jason Todd, Hippolyta, the Scarlet Witch’s children); the Pyms’ marital problems; the loss of Aquaman’s hand; Iron Man’s descent into alcoholism, etc. Several heroes vote to leave the universes as they are, to prevent the tragedies from happening, but Hal Jordan inspires everyone to work for the good of the world, not themselves.
The Avengers and Leaguers attack Krona’s base, and Krona summons numerous villains of both worlds to attack the heroes. With time and space deteriorating, reality also changes, and the battle is joined by every single hero who had been a part of the Justice League and Avengers, but Krona's stronghold is defended by every villain they have fought. At the end, Superman attacks Krona head-on, armed with Captain America’s shield and Thor’s hammer- Captain America was leading the teams using the Martian Manhunter's telepathy and Thor was overwhelmed by several enemies-, but fails, as Krona kills every hero present. At last, a sneak attack is pulled by the Flash and Hawkeye- who had faked their deaths earlier-, Hawkeye penetrating Krona's equipment with a TNT arrow and giving the Flash the chance to take the artifacts. They succeed, and the universes are returned to normal with help from the Spectre, and the heroes part ways. Krona has imploded to form a cosmic egg, which is stored in the JLA Watchtower with Metron watching.
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I'm not listening to the little voice that tells me to shut up and ignore this ridiculous debate.I've been trying to listen to that voice since the first of these threads.
Also JLA vs Avengers ends in a tie. And that's canon.
Not exactly.
DC recognizes the story. Marvel does not. DC only brings up Krona was involved in multiple incidents of universe wide plots, and this was one of them.
Also, technically speaking, Marvel won in story because Captain America told the Avengers to back off so Grand Master would win the bet against Krona. Krona attacked Grand Master because he was angry he lost and the pawns conspired for him to lose.