I had an arguement today about multiple types of bonuses from multiple items, so i decided to ask you.
If you have 3 different type of bonus to the AC (no one of them is dodge) from 2 different sources (or item, spell, effect), i just use the higher bonus, for each type, from both items right?
Examples:
1)+1 leather armor (2 armor bonus, +1 enchantement) and spell mage armor or bracers of armor+4 (+4 armor). Do i have +4 or +5 to the AC from those two items/effects?
2)+1 heavy shield (2 shield bonus, +1 enchantement) and the spell shield (+4 shield bonus)or an item that grants +4 shield bonus. Do i have +5 or +4 to the AC from those two items/effects?
3)Holy vindicator uses his vindicator's shield ability (assuming 4d6 channel energy) on his +1 heavy shield (+2 shield, +1 enchantement) giving it +4 sacred bonus and has the spell shield (+4 shield bonus)or an item that grants +4 shield bonus. Do i have +9 or +7 to the AC from those two items/effects?
I had an arguement today about multiple types of bonuses from multiple items, so i decided to ask you.
If you have 3 different type of bonus to the AC (no one of them is dodge) from 2 different sources (or item, spell, effect), i just use the higher bonus, for each type, from both items right?
Examples:
1)+1 leather armor (2 armor bonus, +1 enchantement) and spell mage armor or bracers of armor+4 (+4 armor). Do i have +4 or +5 to the AC from those two items/effects?
2)+1 heavy shield (2 shield bonus, +1 enchantement) and the spell shield (+4 shield bonus)or an item that grants +4 shield bonus. Do i have +5 or +4 to the AC from those two items/effects?
3)Holy vindicator uses his vindicator's shield ability (assuming 4d6 channel energy) on his +1 heavy shield (+2 shield, +1 enchantement) giving it +4 sacred bonus and has the spell shield (+4 shield bonus)or an item that grants +4 shield bonus. Do i have +9 or +7 to the AC from those two items/effects?
1) +4
2) +43) +7
1) +4. Both types are armor bonuses and same type bonuses do not stack.
2) +4. Both types are shield bonuses and same type bonuses don't stack.
3) +7. The HV abilities boosts the shield to (+3 shield, +4 sacred) which does not stack with the +4 shield bonus from the spell.
Basically, if the bonus is typed (with the exception of dodge bonuses) they don't stack. Full stop. If the bonuses are untyped then you look at the source to determine if they stack.
Since your first two examples are about two same type bonuses, you just apply the higher one. You second example is trickier, but still pretty straightforward. The Holy Vindicator ability only applies to a shield that is worn. The spell doesn't provide a shield that you wear; it just gives you a floating disk that acts as a shield. So the HV ability only applies to the heavy shield strapped to his arm. So his shield becomes +7 while the spell is +4 shield bonus, meaning he uses the bonus from the heavy shield strapped to his arm.
Also, note that enhancement bonuses to armor/shield effectively boosts the armor/shield bonus. A +1 heavy shield has a +3 shield bonus, not a +2 shield bonus and a +1 enhancement bonus.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
As far as I'm aware, the Enhancement Bonus is added to and becomes part of the Armour/Shield Bonus. So for your 3 examples:
1)+1 leather armor (2 armor bonus, +1 enchantement) and spell mage armor or bracers of armor+4 (+4 armor). Do i have +4 or +5 to the AC from those two items/effects?
Your total Armour Bonus would be +4.
The Leather Armour and it's inherent Bonus would be negated.2)+1 heavy shield (2 shield bonus, +1 enchantement) and the spell shield (+4 shield bonus)or an item that grants +4 shield bonus. Do i have +5 or +4 to the AC from those two items/effects?
Your total Shield Bonus would be +4.
The Heavy Shield and it's inherent bonus would be negated.3)Holy vindicator uses his vindicator's shield ability (assuming 4d6 channel energy) on his +1 heavy shield (+2 shield, +1 enchantement) giving it +4 sacred bonus and has the spell shield (+4 shield bonus)or an item that grants +4 shield bonus. Do i have +9 or +7 to the AC from those two items/effects?
This is a tough one. I'd probably rule that his AC Bonus would be +8.
+4 from the shield Spell and +4 from the Sacred Bonus. I know the Sacred Bonus is cast on his Heavy Shield, but I'd still rule that it applies, since it's a different Type and so would add in addition.Please note that I am not 100% sure on this, but this is how I would play it.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
The Holy Vindicator ability only applies to a shield that is worn. The spell doesn't provide a shield that you wear; it just gives you a floating disk that acts as a shield. So the HV ability only applies to the heavy shield strapped to his arm. So his shield becomes +7 while the spell is +4 shield bonus, meaning he uses the bonus from the heavy shield strapped to his arm.
I would have said +8. You disregard the Heavy Shield in favour of the shield. but since you are still wearing the Heavy Shield and the Sacred Bonus is a different Type, I'd allow it to stack with the shield. Just because the Heavy Shield's Shield Bonus is being negated, shouldn't mean that other Types attached to it are (as long as the Shield is still being worn that is).
The Holy Vindicator ability only applies to a shield that is worn. The spell doesn't provide a shield that you wear; it just gives you a floating disk that acts as a shield. So the HV ability only applies to the heavy shield strapped to his arm. So his shield becomes +7 while the spell is +4 shield bonus, meaning he uses the bonus from the heavy shield strapped to his arm.I would have said +8. You disregard the Heavy Shield in favour of the shield. but since you are still wearing the Heavy Shield and the Sacred Bonus is a different Type, I'd allow it to stack with the shield. Just because the Heavy Shield's Shield Bonus is being negated, shouldn't mean that other Types attached to it are (as long as the Shield is still being worn that is).
I can see your reasoning and might be persuaded to agree with such a ruling if it were presented at my table. However, I look at the custom bracers of armor (ones that aren't just a +X armor bonus) and it specifies that the other abilities tied to the bracers don't function if the armor bonus from the bracers doesn't apply. I'm not sure if that's the rule, or the exception to the rule.
Enhancement Bonuses: Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.
I just re-read the rule i quoted and it seems that you all are right in the first 2 examples. I had forgotten about the italiced and bolded parts, i thought that when an armor or shield provided an enchantement bonus, this bonus was provided to the wielder and not to the armor/shield and then at the weilder.
But i think that in the holy vindicator example (where the arguement has started) flash_cxxi is correct because the vindicator's shield reads:Vindicator's Shield (Su): A vindicator can channel energy into his shield as a standard action; when worn, the shield gives the vindicator a sacred bonus (if positive energy) or profane bonus (if negative energy) to his Armor Class equal to the number of dice of the vindicator's channel energy. This bonus lasts for 24 hours or until the vindicator is struck in combat, whichever comes first. The shield does not provide this bonus to any other wielder, but the vindicator does not need to be holding the shield for it to retain this power.
So since the sacred bonus doesn't increase the shield bonus of the shield, i think that there is a good chance that the third example works as flash_cxxi said.
Anyway, it seems i lost the arguement but i happy about it because RAW doesn't allow stupid shaningans and i was forced to re-read some rules.
Basically, if the bonus is typed (with the exception of dodge bonuses) they don't stack. Full stop. If the bonuses are untyped then you look at the source to determine if they stack.
Circumstance bonuses from different sources stack as well. For example, if you are crafting and using MW tools, that's a +2 circumstance (MW tools). If you are also being given a +2 circumstance bonus by someone assisting you, that is a different circumstance bonus (someone helping).
Enhancement Bonuses: Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.I just re-read the rule i quoted and it seems that you all are right in the first 2 examples. I had forgotten about the italiced and bolded parts, i thought that when an armor or shield provided an enchantement bonus, this bonus was provided to the wielder and not to the armor/shield and then at the weilder.
But i think that in the holy vindicator example (where the arguement has started) flash_cxxi is correct because the vindicator's shield reads:
** spoiler omitted **
Italics and bolded mine.
So since the sacred bonus doesn't increase the shield bonus of the shield, i think that there is a good chance that the third example works as flash_cxxi said.
Anyway, it seems i lost the arguement but i happy about it because RAW doesn't allow stupid shaningans and i was forced to re-read some rules.
Part of the problem may be that you think of it as an enchantment bonus because it comes from enchanting the armor. But its actually an enhancement bonus, it enhances what the armor already does, which is provide an armor bonus.
Part of the problem may be that you think of it as an enchantment bonus because it comes from enchanting the armor. But its actually an enhancement bonus, it enhances what the armor already does, which is provide an armor bonus.
Yes that's it, i thought that it was an enchantement bonus to my AC and not an enchantement bonus to the armor's armor bonus.
What is your opinion on the vindicator's shield? Does it add a sacred bonus to the shield's shield bonus or a sacred bonus to the user's AC?
Ok, Im not even sure zll these still exist in PF, but from a 3.X character: Wiz/monk
+4 dex
+3 Wis
+4 mage armor
+3 ammy natural armor
+2 Luck bonus to AC from Staff (forget which one)
+3 dodge bonus
+4 shield spellSo, whats My AC?
I don't see any reason why wouldn't all of them stack, so:
10+4+3+4+3+2+3+4=33
Just a little nitpick: there is no such thing as an "enchantement" bonus. Magic weapons and armor can have enhancement bonuses. It's a different word.
Also note that the term "enchantment" in this game generally does not refer to magic items; it is a school of spells that usually affect the mind. "Enchanting an item" is a term from earlier editions of the game. Since D&D 3.0 this is correctly called "crafting".
Just a little nitpick: there is no such thing as an "enchantement" bonus. Magic weapons and armor can have enhancement bonuses. It's a different word.
Also note that the term "enchantment" in this game generally does not refer to magic items; it is a school of spells that usually affect the mind. "Enchanting an item" is a term from earlier editions of the game. Since D&D 3.0 this is correctly called "crafting".
I always confuse those two words. Anyway i thought that the enhancement bonus is a different kind of bonus.
Part of the problem may be that you think of it as an enchantment bonus because it comes from enchanting the armor. But its actually an enhancement bonus, it enhances what the armor already does, which is provide an armor bonus.Yes that's it, i thought that it was an enchantement bonus to my AC and not an enchantement bonus to the armor's armor bonus.
What is your opinion on the vindicator's shield? Does it add a sacred bonus to the shield's shield bonus or a sacred bonus to the user's AC?
I retract my earlier ruling that the bonus only works on the physical shield after a careful re-read of the ability.
Vindicator's Shield (Su): A vindicator can channel energy into his shield as a standard action; when worn, the shield gives the vindicator a sacred bonus (if positive energy) or profane bonus (if negative energy) to his Armor Class equal to the number of dice of the vindicator's channel energy. This bonus lasts for 24 hours or until the vindicator is struck in combat, whichever comes first. The shield does not provide this bonus to any other wielder, but the vindicator does not need to be holding the shield for it to retain this power.
Emphasis mine.
Basically, I was wrong. The bonus applies to the character whether the shield is being used or not. Since it only lasts through the first successful hit on the character, this isn't such a huge deal.
@Mauril
Yes you are right. The ability has some words at the next page *facepalm*
That's for wanting to really inderstand an ability without looking at the entire entry.
Part of the problem may be that you think of it as an enchantment bonus because it comes from enchanting the armor. But its actually an enhancement bonus, it enhances what the armor already does, which is provide an armor bonus.Yes that's it, i thought that it was an enchantement bonus to my AC and not an enchantement bonus to the armor's armor bonus.
What is your opinion on the vindicator's shield? Does it add a sacred bonus to the shield's shield bonus or a sacred bonus to the user's AC?
I retract my earlier ruling that the bonus only works on the physical shield after a careful re-read of the ability.
Vindicator's Shield (Su): A vindicator can channel energy into his shield as a standard action; when worn, the shield gives the vindicator a sacred bonus (if positive energy) or profane bonus (if negative energy) to his Armor Class equal to the number of dice of the vindicator's channel energy. This bonus lasts for 24 hours or until the vindicator is struck in combat, whichever comes first. The shield does not provide this bonus to any other wielder, but the vindicator does not need to be holding the shield for it to retain this power.Emphasis mine.
Basically, I was wrong. The bonus applies to the character whether the shield is being used or not. Since it only lasts through the first successful hit on the character, this isn't such a huge deal.
The ability only works "when worn". The shield has to be worn for the ability to work. The vindicator can temporarily lend the shield out to a friend or put it away to use his off-hand, but he has to take out the shield again to benefit from the ability.
@AvalonXQ
Yes you are right.
But still, since the bonus is to the vindicator's AC and not the shield's shield bonus, if a cleric 7/vindicator 1 vindicator that has the spell shield cast on him would have +8AC right?