I have a couple suggestions.
Gun Training should allow the slinger to ignore the misfire chance ont he chosen weapon type (Pistols, Muskets, Revolvers, etc).
Give Lightning Reload as a level 7 deed. Unless dual wielding, you're only getting one attack until 6th at the point anyway. Why wait until 11th for us to have?
Change Pistol whip to "as long as 1 grit remains" and give the option of spending grit to knock people prone, as suggested in a other threads.
why even have pistol whip, wouldnt catch off guard do a better job?
Gun Fighting should work like Weapon Expertise from the Samurai, in that the gunslinger levels stacks with fighter levels "for the purposes of meeting the prerequisite for feats that specifically select his chosen weapon, such as Weapon Specialization".
I'd also like the feat "Master Gunsmith" which allows the gunslinger to "enchant" firearms as if he had the craft arms an armor feat, but only for firearms. (Sort of a restricted Master craftsman feat.) Perhaps require 5 ranks in craft (Alchemy) or somesuch.
That "Master Gunsmith" feat you're proposing sounds exactly like Master Craftsman except worse. Why not just take Master Craftsman?
Gun Fighting should work like Weapon Expertise from the Samurai, in that the gunslinger levels stacks with fighter levels "for the purposes of meeting the prerequisite for feats that specifically select his chosen weapon, such as Weapon Specialization".
I thought, that as an fighter archtype, this would be redundant? I mean, a gunslinger is a fighter, and therefore can choose fighter feats.
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Gun Fighting should work like Weapon Expertise from the Samurai, in that the gunslinger levels stacks with fighter levels "for the purposes of meeting the prerequisite for feats that specifically select his chosen weapon, such as Weapon Specialization".I thought, that as an fighter archtype, this would be redundant? I mean, a gunslinger is a fighter, and therefore can choose fighter feats.
The gunslinger is a Base Class now.
And I'm against allowing other classes access to fighter feats, no matter if they are Gunslingers, Magi or Samurai.
Gun Fighting should work like Weapon Expertise from the Samurai, in that the gunslinger levels stacks with fighter levels "for the purposes of meeting the prerequisite for feats that specifically select his chosen weapon, such as Weapon Specialization".I thought, that as an fighter archtype, this would be redundant? I mean, a gunslinger is a fighter, and therefore can choose fighter feats.
The gunslinger is a Base Class now.
And I'm against allowing other classes access to fighter feats, no matter if they are Gunslingers, Magi or Samurai.
Even though it loses fighter feats I'm glad Gunslinger is it's own class now. In round 1 it was an alternate class in name only, having basically nothing in common with a base fighter outside of BAB and HD.
Let's try and keep the arguing to a minimum and keep this thread open to suggestions. IF you have a question about a person's suggestion, ask it. Try not to argue too much.
I'm also all for the "only need to have grit to use pistol whip, spend grit to knock down" idea.
Here are my thoughts on the gunslinger after playing a lvl 8 gunslinger for a few combats at the DM:
-They need more grit - Either more base grit (+1/2 class level) or more ways of getting grit. My lvl 8 had 1 grit point to work with and couldn't do much with it. I also think that the Lucky Gun magic weapon special ability shouldn't require the wielder to have weapon focus for that gun in order to receive the extra grip point from it.
-Deeds should be chosen like rogue talents and rage powers to make each gunslinger different. And obviously more should be added.
-There should be a section about firearms: they should not ignore armor bonuses base on force effects like mage armor and bracers of armor.
-Pistol-whip should be able to be used to make AoOs. Although maybe only if you have a feat like quick draw or combat reflexes or maybe a sleight of hand check. Something that isn't necessarily a "free" AoO.
-They should get more skill points (4 + int mod, at least) and add diplomacy and apppraise as class skills.
-The ranges of firearms should be increased by 5 or 10 feet. Although I don't feel very justified in saying that. I just want to see gunslingers be a little more mobile.
I'm also all for the "only need to have grit to use pistol whip, spend grit to knock down" idea.
+1 I love this idea
-They need more grit - Either more base grit (+1/2 class level) or more ways of getting grit. My lvl 8 had 1 grit point to work with and couldn't do much with it. I also think that the Lucky Gun magic weapon special ability shouldn't require the wielder to have weapon focus for that gun in order to receive the extra grip point from it.
I've been wondering why they can't have 3+Wis like Monk has for Ki.
Yes, 3+wis would be the perfect amount.
I like the pistol whip AoO thing, although if you had the catch off guard feat, could you make AoOs with that?
Im digging the pistol whip modification here.
Yes, 3+wis would be the perfect amount.
Problem with a current mechanic is, the amateur gunslinger give 1 grit, and most gunslingers will probably have 1 grit.
Yes, 3+wis would be the perfect amount.Problem with a current mechanic is, the amateur gunslinger give 1 grit, and most gunslingers will probably have 1 grit.
Exactly, so give the gunslinger class 3+wis. That way Gunslingers will always have more than one.
Yes, 3+wis would be the perfect amount.Problem with a current mechanic is, the amateur gunslinger give 1 grit, and most gunslingers will probably have 1 grit.
But a character with amateur gunslinger can still have a maximum grit up to their wisdom modifier.
Exactly, so give the gunslinger class 3+wis. That way Gunslingers will always have more than one.Yes, 3+wis would be the perfect amount.Problem with a current mechanic is, the amateur gunslinger give 1 grit, and most gunslingers will probably have 1 grit.
I agree, anyone with levels in gunslinger should come out better than some schmo with the amateur feat.
although there still remains one issue, the things that are 'worth' spending a grit on are still going to be one trick ponies because they are going to burn through grit like a junkie on speed. And for the other things that you could spend grit on, they are easy to conserve around (like quick clear) because well they just aren't that wounderful to spend the point on.
I sort of favor something like a 1/4 level grit progression, but someone else had pointed out a recharge 1/10 minutes or something like that, which would limit the grit spendable per combat, which i believe is the long term intent, and would allow the gunslinger to use more grit later on another combat and i like that alot.
Exactly, so give the gunslinger class 3+wis. That way Gunslingers will always have more than one.Yes, 3+wis would be the perfect amount.Problem with a current mechanic is, the amateur gunslinger give 1 grit, and most gunslingers will probably have 1 grit.I agree, anyone with levels in gunslinger should come out better than some schmo with the amateur feat.
although there still remains one issue, the things that are 'worth' spending a grit on are still going to be one trick ponies because they are going to burn through grit like a junkie on speed. And for the other things that you could spend grit on, they are easy to conserve around (like quick clear) because well they just aren't that wounderful to spend the point on.
I sort of favor something like a 1/4 level grit progression, but someone else had pointed out a recharge 1/10 minutes or something like that, which would limit the grit spendable per combat, which i believe is the long term intent, and would allow the gunslinger to use more grit later on another combat and i like that alot.
I think the gunslinger should get 1/2 level +Wis modifier for Grit, much like a monk's ki pool. The gunslinger is supposed to be daring and dynamic class, using her deeds to gain victory in battle and storyline-wise. they can't do that with only 5 grit, or even 8 grit at 18th (Wis 20=5+3). She needs to have a scaling increase so that the higher level gunslingers can truly be daring without worrying so much about running out. I would even suggest keeping the ability to regain grit remain with this version of Grit amount. It follows the established mechanics and just feels right. There aren't a whole lot of deeds, so she should be able to do them a bunch of times per day.
I think the gunslinger should get 1/2 level +Wis modifier for Grit, much like a monk's ki pool. The gunslinger is supposed to be daring and dynamic class, using her deeds to gain victory in battle and storyline-wise. they can't do that with only 5 grit, or even 8 grit at 18th (Wis 20=5+3). She needs to have a scaling increase so that the higher level gunslingers can truly be daring without worrying so much about running out. I would even suggest keeping the ability to regain grit remain with this version of Grit amount. It follows the established mechanics and just feels right. There aren't a whole lot of deeds, so she should be able to do them a bunch of times per day.Exactly, so give the gunslinger class 3+wis. That way Gunslingers will always have more than one.Yes, 3+wis would be the perfect amount.Problem with a current mechanic is, the amateur gunslinger give 1 grit, and most gunslingers will probably have 1 grit.I agree, anyone with levels in gunslinger should come out better than some schmo with the amateur feat.
although there still remains one issue, the things that are 'worth' spending a grit on are still going to be one trick ponies because they are going to burn through grit like a junkie on speed. And for the other things that you could spend grit on, they are easy to conserve around (like quick clear) because well they just aren't that wounderful to spend the point on.
I sort of favor something like a 1/4 level grit progression, but someone else had pointed out a recharge 1/10 minutes or something like that, which would limit the grit spendable per combat, which i believe is the long term intent, and would allow the gunslinger to use more grit later on another combat and i like that alot.
yea but you can recharge the grit....
Cant give a ton of it away and make it rechargeable.
Then get rid of the recharge. You can't have a class's primary feature be reduced to Wis mod or even 3+Wis mod for usage per day. Look at the monks ki abilities, or barbarian's rage powers. Thing is, even with the recharges as now, how often does one critically hit, or drop an enemy in a fight (except for the fighter)? So, the amount needs to be high enough for them to function in their class feature at higher levels.
That "Master Gunsmith" feat you're proposing sounds exactly like Master Craftsman except worse. Why not just take Master Craftsman?
Sounds like he means more like the Wizard bonded item ability. You get Master Gunsmith, and you are treated as having the feats to enchant your weapon, etc.
Master Craftsman takes at least two feats to start enchanting something: the original feat to open up qualifying, and then the craft arms and armor feat. This means you'd need to be at least 7th level before you can start enchanting for one, and it takes up two of your precious feats to pull this off.
Master Gunsmith would let you enchant your weapon however you wanted, with only the one feat needed.
I always view master craftsman as something that belonged to NPC experts, I could never find a viable reason to use it on a PC where the PC couldnt get better use from the feats.
That "Master Gunsmith" feat you're proposing sounds exactly like Master Craftsman except worse. Why not just take Master Craftsman?Sounds like he means more like the Wizard bonded item ability. You get Master Gunsmith, and you are treated as having the feats to enchant your weapon, etc.
Master Craftsman takes at least two feats to start enchanting something: the original feat to open up qualifying, and then the craft arms and armor feat. This means you'd need to be at least 7th level before you can start enchanting for one, and it takes up two of your precious feats to pull this off.
Master Gunsmith would let you enchant your weapon however you wanted, with only the one feat needed.
That's right, I keep forgetting that Master Craftsman only gives access to the feats and not the feats themselves.
Got another one after thinking about my rifleman thread.
Switch Dead Shot and Lightning Reload. Lightning Reload will be much more helpful at the lower levels overall for gunslingers, no matter the build, whereas after 10th, Dead Shot would be a much better Rifle/Musket deed.
Change Stunning s#*~ to 7th level. Why wait until 19th level? By then, who cares?
Similar feats like stunning assault or stunning critical all are high level.
(a counter example could be indeed stunning fist :P)
Change Stunning s#*~ to 7th level. Why wait until 19th level? By then, who cares?Similar feats like stunning assault or stunning critical all are high level.
(a counter example could be indeed stunning fist :P)
Well if you actually take stunning fist as a nonmonk it has an 8 bab req.
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Get rid of Pistol Whip all together. Pistol whip[ong with early fire arms broke early firearms because early firearms did not have steel frames like modern firearms.
Replace Pistolwhip with a feature that allow firearms to always threaten for purposes of flanking no matter the range.
Wounderous Item: Gunslingers Belt The Gunslingers belt holds fifty alchemical or metal cartirges. when any pistol os placed in a holster it is reloaded and has any misfire condition removed. Cost 10000gp