I'm looking to stun or cower a CR 19 red dragon with a party of 10th-level characters. How do I do it?
And please don't say dust of choking and sneezing.
I'm looking to stun or cower a CR 19 red dragon with a party of 10th-level characters. How do I do it?
And please don't say dust of choking and sneezing.
It does not happen without 3.5 material, and even with 3.5 material I would have to do some research. I take that back. You can probably do it with luck, but there is no reliable method to do so with a 10th level party.
PS: I think using cursed items are just as valid as APL+9 monsters. :)
10th level monks(plural) with stunning Fist and greater invisibility, a natural 1 always fails.
10th level monks(plural) with stunning Fist and greater invisibility, a natural 1 always fails.
Sadly the dragon's blindsense and see invisibility spell defeats invisibility.
He's fought us enough to know we favor invisibility and teleport.
10th level monks(plural) with stunning Fist and greater invisibility, a natural 1 always fails.Sadly the dragon's blindsense and see invisibility spell defeats invisibility.
He's fought us enough to know we favor invisibility and teleport.
Before making the dragon angry what was the goal in the adventure?
Before making the dragon angry what was the goal in the adventure?10th level monks(plural) with stunning Fist and greater invisibility, a natural 1 always fails.Sadly the dragon's blindsense and see invisibility spell defeats invisibility.
He's fought us enough to know we favor invisibility and teleport.
I dunno. Have the GM lead us by the nose I guess.
At the moment we are supposed to be heading to the far south (like, to the pole kinda far). It was rumored that a powerful anti-dragon orb artifact was taken there thousands of years ago.
Getting there is next to impossible though as we end up teleporting* BACKWARDS every time we encounter the damned dragon.
* The only effective means of escape.
Before making the dragon angry what was the goal in the adventure?10th level monks(plural) with stunning Fist and greater invisibility, a natural 1 always fails.Sadly the dragon's blindsense and see invisibility spell defeats invisibility.
He's fought us enough to know we favor invisibility and teleport.
I dunno. Have the GM lead us by the nose I guess.
At the moment we are supposed to be heading to the far south (like, to the pole kinda far). It was rumored that a powerful anti-dragon orb artifact was taken there thousands of years ago.
Getting there is next to impossible though as we end up teleporting* BACKWARDS every time we encounter the damned dragon.
* The only effective means of escape.
I am guessing the dragon knows you were going for the orb, and pushed you away from it. If none of you have ranks in geography I would hire an expert(map maker) to draw me a map, even if it not detailed of the area you are trying to get too. It seems likely that someone somewhere in the world has ranks in knowledge(geograhpy). I am assuming there will be another clue once you get there. If you can't get a drawing of where the orb is then I would try to get one of the closest town/village/etc to the area. If you are intended to teleport then something has to be there for you to reference even if you can't land directly on home base(where the orb is). I would also use anti divination spells if you have any. That might stop/delay him from being able to find you.
I am guessing the dragon knows you were going for the orb, and pushed you away from it. If none of you have ranks in geography I would hire an expert(map maker) to draw me a map, even if it not detailed of the area you are trying to get too. It seems likely that someone somewhere in the world has ranks in knowledge(geograhpy). I am assuming there will be another clue once you get there. If you can't get a drawing of where the orb is then I would try to get one of the closest town/village/etc to the area. If you are intended to teleport then something has to be there for you to reference even if you can't land directly on home base(where the orb is). I would also use anti divination spells if you have any. That might stop/delay him from being able to find you.Before making the dragon angry what was the goal in the adventure?10th level monks(plural) with stunning Fist and greater invisibility, a natural 1 always fails.Sadly the dragon's blindsense and see invisibility spell defeats invisibility.
He's fought us enough to know we favor invisibility and teleport.
I dunno. Have the GM lead us by the nose I guess.
At the moment we are supposed to be heading to the far south (like, to the pole kinda far). It was rumored that a powerful anti-dragon orb artifact was taken there thousands of years ago.
Getting there is next to impossible though as we end up teleporting* BACKWARDS every time we encounter the damned dragon.
* The only effective means of escape.
My wizard has ranks in every knowledge skill with his lowest modifier being +12.
I like the idea of using anti-divination methods. He does seem to find us pretty readily.
Other creatures have blindsense, a lesser ability that lets the creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of blindsight. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent that cannot be seen has total concealment (50% miss chance) against a creature with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.
You still have this advantage. Invisibility is still a better option than not for your melee combatants.
As for stunning him specifically there isn't much. PW Stun works on things below 150 hp if I remember correctly, if someone's packing a scroll of that and you wound it a few times, should give you a few rounds.
Have the GM lead us by the nose I guess.
*Hiss*
At the moment we are supposed to be heading to the far south (like, to the pole kinda far). It was rumored that a powerful anti-dragon orb artifact was taken there thousands of years ago.
Dragonlance?
At the moment we are supposed to be heading to the far south (like, to the pole kinda far). It was rumored that a powerful anti-dragon orb artifact was taken there thousands of years ago.Dragonlance?
Yes. The module is called Winter of Dragons. (I am unfamiliar with anything Dragonlance, so please, no spoilers if that isn't the case with you).
I'm looking to stun or cower a CR 19 red dragon with a party of 10th-level characters. How do I do it?
And please don't say dust of choking and sneezing.
Bribe it into throwing the fight?
I'm looking to stun or cower a CR 19 red dragon with a party of 10th-level characters. How do I do it?
And please don't say dust of choking and sneezing.
Bribe a nice gold or silver dragon into helping.
Heightened Extended (via rod) daze monster spell with Greater Spell Focus Enchantment and Greater Spell Penetration is ALMOST stunning it.
Hire a monastery of suicidal monks?
Does APG have any Stunning Spell metamagic feats?
The only problem is that it has really, really good saves, so you are almost exclusively relying on it to roll a natural 1 on its saving throw.
Are there any witch Hexes that require it to roll twice and take the worst roll?
The only weakness dragons have is their really low touch AC....and most are smart enough to get around that some way.
You obviously want to dispel its buffs and protections, and then hit it with cold spells (+50% damage from cold).
You obviously want to dispel its buffs and protections, and then hit it with cold spells (+50% damage from cold).
Yeah, but I only prepared dispel magic once and I ended up using it in an earlier encounter when I created a hungry pit under a bunch of thugs. It wasn't until after I created the pit that the GM decided to inform me that I was standing in a crowd of people and that I had most certainly killed several innocents. I dispelled my own pit in order to save lives.
Then suddenly there was a buffed dragon come to kill us. I think maybe you guys can understand why this module is becoming less and less fun.
Are there any witch Hexes that require it to roll twice and take the worst roll?
Yes. There is the misfortune hex, but the dragon has to fail a will save in order for it to work, and you only get to try 1/day on a particular creature, IIRC.
You obviously want to dispel its buffs and protections, and then hit it with cold spells (+50% damage from cold).
Yeah, but I only prepared dispel magic once and I ended up using it in an earlier encounter when I created a hungry pit under a bunch of thugs. It wasn't until after I created the pit that the GM decided to inform me that I was standing in a crowd of people and that I had most certainly killed several innocents. I dispelled my own pit in order to save lives.
Then suddenly there was a buffed dragon come to kill us. I think maybe you guys can understand why this module is becoming less and less fun.
If your guy has high mental stats, and you can't think of the right question to ask the DM or figure out what to do I would throw you a bone by allowing you to make a wisdom or intelligence check. It seem the DM is being really difficult. I have never played in that campaign setting so I don't know how difficult Dragonlance is supposed to be though.
I think the rope trick idea is a good start though. Teleport to the cold area, try to find some info. It seems odd that nobody has ever been to the south pole. If it has mountains I would get a picture and teleport there, if only so you have another teleportation point that is somewhat close to your goal. It can be a hideout if you go into a rope trick as soon as you teleport there. The dragon won't have time to use any divination spells.
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For your encounter with this dragon might I suggest a little of this.
Take care with it's use, however, for it sounds as though countering your DM's diabolical plans lands you in further hot water. As for stunning or incapacitating this beast, I highly doubt you'll be able to pull that trick off. Illusion may be your best hope there. Set it up so the next time you encounter the beast it "Kills you all off". If the dragon continues it's pursuit of you it may be time to off the DM and rotate someone else in. Constant failure for the DM's enjoyment is not the kind of game I enjoy.
You obviously want to dispel its buffs and protections, and then hit it with cold spells (+50% damage from cold).
Yeah, but I only prepared dispel magic once and I ended up using it in an earlier encounter when I created a hungry pit under a bunch of thugs. It wasn't until after I created the pit that the GM decided to inform me that I was standing in a crowd of people and that I had most certainly killed several innocents. I dispelled my own pit in order to save lives.
Then suddenly there was a buffed dragon come to kill us. I think maybe you guys can understand why this module is becoming less and less fun.
If your guy has high mental stats, and you can't think of the right question to ask the DM or figure out what to do I would throw you a bone by allowing you to make a wisdom or intelligence check. It seem the DM is being really difficult. I have never played in that campaign setting so I don't know how difficult Dragonlance is supposed to be though.
I think the rope trick idea is a good start though. Teleport to the cold area, try to find some info. It seems odd that nobody has ever been to the south pole. If it has mountains I would get a picture and teleport there, if only so you have another teleportation point that is somewhat close to your goal. It can be a hideout if you go into a rope trick as soon as you teleport there. The dragon won't have time to use any divination spells.
Intelligence = 26. The GM has openly admitted that my character is very likely the smartest being in the campaign setting. Even the dragon isn't as intelligent. Which is why it is all the more frustrating when he makes my character come off as an idiot due to subpar communication.
For your encounter with this dragon might I suggest a little of this.
Take care with it's use, however, for it sounds as though countering your DM's diabolical plans lands you in further hot water. As for stunning or incapacitating this beast, I highly doubt you'll be able to pull that trick off. Illusion may be your best hope there. Set it up so the next time you encounter the beast it "Kills you all off". If the dragon continues it's pursuit of you it may be time to off the DM and rotate someone else in. Constant failure for the DM's enjoyment is not the kind of game I enjoy.
The dragon has see invis.
The dragon has see invis.For your encounter with this dragon might I suggest a little of this.
Take care with it's use, however, for it sounds as though countering your DM's diabolical plans lands you in further hot water. As for stunning or incapacitating this beast, I highly doubt you'll be able to pull that trick off. Illusion may be your best hope there. Set it up so the next time you encounter the beast it "Kills you all off". If the dragon continues it's pursuit of you it may be time to off the DM and rotate someone else in. Constant failure for the DM's enjoyment is not the kind of game I enjoy.
Which is defeated by dust of disappearance.
It sounds like the DM isn't doing a good job. First, he didn't explain that there was a crowd of innocents around the thugs, then he puts you repeatedly against an encounter that is 9 levels higher than you. If the DM is doing "take backs" like saying you just killed a bunch of innocents he didn't mention, then you might have to bring out that dragonlance you didn't tell him you had stowed in your backpack. Or that ring of 5 wishes.
From what I've seen so far, you should rather set your phasers to "kill it with fire". ;)
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From what I've seen so far, you should rather set your phasers to "kill it with fire". ;)
While I agree with the sentiment, it is a RED dragon. Kill it with frost doesn't have the same ring to it though.
To be honest it sounds like your D/GM is just messing you guys around for kicks. I'd walk out of that game and never look back.
From what I've seen so far, you should rather set your phasers to "kill it with fire". ;)While I agree with the sentiment, it is a RED dragon. Kill it with frost doesn't have the same ring to it though.
To be honest it sounds like your D/GM is just messing you guys around for kicks. I'd walk out of that game and never look back.
It's our longest running game I believe, and the frustrations are relatively recent, so we are kinda hesitant to "just quit."
Thats two threads now that the only advice was to switch DM's, campaigns are living worlds, sometimes things get unfair.
I say split up and make a break for it past the dragon, he can only chase one of you at a time, if your all invisible its even better
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I forget - can Red Dragons breath under water?
If not, could you attempt to trap underwater?
Hmm.. hold up, isn't this thing spamming limited wish?
Ouch O_O
I'd be gunning to trap it under an avalanche of ice or leading into a
Arctic waters where hopefully it'd be cold environmental damage.
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No, wait, I'd be running away screaming like something prone to running and screaming!
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Hmm..
If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: the hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.
Is there a save? Do you have a portable hole and bag of holding? Perhaps a suicide minion?
..or would, if this was even possible, it simply Limited Wish itself back.
Ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch..
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Hmm how about simply lying?
I think it's Sense Motive is roughly +38
So, grab a Bard with Glibness or the Potion of the same effect: +20
Then find a 10th lvl lier?
Assuming 10th lvl Bluff skill check of roughly +19..
Give you +39 on the check.
O_o Slightly better than 50/50 for the 'You got the wrong guys!' attempt?
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Ok, no, I'm not sold either >_<
Which is defeated by dust of disappearance.The dragon has see invis.For your encounter with this dragon might I suggest a little of this.
Take care with it's use, however, for it sounds as though countering your DM's diabolical plans lands you in further hot water. As for stunning or incapacitating this beast, I highly doubt you'll be able to pull that trick off. Illusion may be your best hope there. Set it up so the next time you encounter the beast it "Kills you all off". If the dragon continues it's pursuit of you it may be time to off the DM and rotate someone else in. Constant failure for the DM's enjoyment is not the kind of game I enjoy.
I can't believe I never noticed that line. Thanks.
As far as magic goes SR30 is a major stumbling block, however Su abilites works just fine
362 points to chew through
However for a damage kill/submission here are the key points, vunerable to cold and touch AC of 5
Enter the Alchemist
10th level half orc alchemist kitted for bombing
fast bombs discovery allow multiple bombs
rapid shot (+1+, improved TWF (+2) and haste (+1)
base 2 attacks
total 7 bomb attacks , the modifers to hit on an optimised build are more than enough as we only need to hit AC5 touch which means baring rolling a 1 you hit with all 7.
assuming an 20INT which I think is avg for a 10th level +5 to dmg plus another +5 from favoured class bonus
each bomb does 5d6+10dmg
frost bombs discovery makes it cold dmg plus it needs to make 7 fort saves against your bomb DC or be staggered, 1 is always a fail
7 bombs = 35d6+70dmg = 192dmg avg plus vunerbility +50% = 288dmg
so thats 288/362 If I'm not mistaken massive damage would kick in.
If it survives that it won't survive the next round of bombs (10th level alch has 15 bombs which should be enough.
However thats assuming you have an alchemist in the group.
Alterantivley you could raise a small army to help fight the dragon, an army of what you ask ? level 1 alchemists of course with the frost bomb discovery
needing only to hit touch AC5 with some bomber eye self buff a small armies of these guys will bring just as much pain
1d6+3dmg might not sound like much but it'll do 6dmg per strike and the dragon can't do crap about it cept run away.
and sure the dragon might straffe the army and kill a bunch but it'll take just as many bombs to the face. ~55 of these weak bombs to be precise.
With leadership feat you could each in the group find yourself 5 level 8 alchemists who can all take fast frost bombs again between them more than enough firepower that the dragon cannot avoid except by running away.
and no in case you wondering the recipent dosen't get a save for damage if directly hit by a bomb, only saves vs splash and effects.
Of course you GM may then try to either pick off you alchemist/s or avoid the fight. In the former case the rest of your group can buff the hell out of the alch to keep him alive, or in the case of 5 alch cohorts or an army of alchs dragon can't get them all in 1 round. And if the later and the dragon flee's then thats a win becuase you've still got the threat if he comes back.
anyway just my 2 cents to counter a situation that was probably not meant to be overcome by force.
personally I would have gone with the find sympathetic silver dragon/s to aid in brining the red dragon down in classic dragonlance style.
I'm looking to stun or cower a CR 19 red dragon with a party of 10th-level characters. How do I do it?
And please don't say dust of choking and sneezing.
This DM is full of fail. He's punishing the party repeatedly and in multiple ways for his own amusement. How does someone not notice standing in a crowd? And if this module is for a 10th level party and actually does include a CR 19 dragon, I would suspect the party was either not supposed to fight it or the adventure was supposed to provide something to level the playing field. The entire situation is ridiculous.
We do not use the massive damage optional rule. Gunslingers would be inappropriate to the setting. The module had the dragon statted out as a CR 20, the GM decided to just use the CR 19 version in the Bestiary. Somebody knowledgeable of the module already mentioned that their was a way to "level the playing field" and kill the dragon, but that our characters are long beyond that. Apparently, we missed our chance somehow and so now the dragon continues to torment us beyond what the module intended. We have to find our own way of leveling the playing field.
We do not use the massive damage optional rule.
No Matter Alcehmist can do 576 dmg over 2 rounds and will still kill the dragon outright unless it flee's
Had another thought as well.
if you've got some anti-scrying hire several groups of 5 low level adventures and pay them to travel differen't routes.
The aim to have 10+ groups identical to your all travelling to the orb the dragon will have to search each one to find the right/your group.
Ah
I just found your I WIN button
Wind Walk be the answer to your problems
If desired by the subject, a magical wind wafts a wind walker along at up to 600 feet per round (60 mph) with poor maneuverability. Wind walkers are not invisible but rather appear misty and translucent. If fully clothed in white, they are 80% likely to be mistaken for clouds, fog, vapors, or the like.
600 beats the 250ft fly of the dragon. not to mention your a cloud with scry protection there basically no way he'll find you before you reach the orb.
If your DM makes up some crap that the dragon can beat both scry and can pick you out of a sky of clouds you call shennegins and find a new GM
You'll need to purchase a couple of scrolls of windwalk CL12 or you'll need to level yoursevles up to level 12
spell lasts 1hr/level so not sure whatthe distances involved but basically windwalk = 60mph
We do not use the massive damage optional rule. Gunslingers would be inappropriate to the setting. The module had the dragon statted out as a CR 20, the GM decided to just use the CR 19 version in the Bestiary. Somebody knowledgeable of the module already mentioned that their was a way to "level the playing field" and kill the dragon, but that our characters are long beyond that. Apparently, we missed our chance somehow and so now the dragon continues to torment us beyond what the module intended. We have to find our own way of leveling the playing field.
So, there was a group of people who did something to piss off this dragon and the dragon keeps coming back for vengeance, correct? He has since fried most of those people, but at least one or two of the original party is still there, but the rest are replacements, right? Presumably you're coming up with some explanation for where the replacements are coming from.
So, the dragon really doesn't have anything against the replacements, they're just there in the wrong company. So tell the replacements what the goal of the situation is, have them go to it and have those that the dragon has the beef with run decoy. Granted, you'll probably die horribly, but what other options do you have?
So, there was a group of people who did something to piss off this dragon and the dragon keeps coming back for vengeance, correct? He has since fried most of those people, but at least one or two of the original party is still there, but the rest are replacements, right? Presumably you're coming up with some explanation for where the replacements are coming from.
So, the dragon really doesn't have anything against the replacements, they're just there in the wrong company. So tell the replacements what the goal of the situation is, have them go to it and have those that the dragon has the beef with run decoy. Granted, you'll probably die horribly, but what other options do you have?
Idk, personally the level 10 frost alchemist and the super fast flying sound like pretty damn good ideas to me.
So, there was a group of people who did something to piss off this dragon and the dragon keeps coming back for vengeance, correct? He has since fried most of those people, but at least one or two of the original party is still there, but the rest are replacements, right? Presumably you're coming up with some explanation for where the replacements are coming from.
So, the dragon really doesn't have anything against the replacements, they're just there in the wrong company. So tell the replacements what the goal of the situation is, have them go to it and have those that the dragon has the beef with run decoy. Granted, you'll probably die horribly, but what other options do you have?Idk, personally the level 10 frost alchemist and the super fast flying sound like pretty damn good ideas to me.
I assume no further posts means one of these solutions is going to be tried or has done the trick ?
We won't get around to having another game for at least another two weeks I'm thinking. And that's if we don't rotate to another campaign for a time.