This is just something I'm interested in, I'm not trying to prove a point or start a heated argument.
Which of the following feats do you think are either acceptable or unacceptable for a mundane class such as a fighter or rogue to accomplish at some point in their career through non-magical means (no items etc. or spells cast on them)? Just write your reply and either acceptable or unacceptable next to the number of each feat. You are free to explain your opinion, of course.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line Unacceptable
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack Depends ( I don't see a problem with using a large arcing attack that hits one person after another, but a person within normal human strength constraints is going to have major issues. That said, not everything or one in a fantasy world lives within those constraints.)
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies Acceptable (People get suckered into fights they shouldn't be having every single day. Not sure how this is different.)
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day Acceptable (Hit points are an abstract. It doesn't represent wounds healing up, so much as hidden reserves of strength.)
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight Unacceptable
7. Running across water Unacceptable
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start Unacceptable
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily Acceptable ( Shock does genuinely root people to the spot, not sure why this would be controversial)
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance Unacceptable
1. Acceptable
2. Acceptable
3. Acceptable
4. Acceptable
5. Unacceptable
6. Acceptable
7. Acceptable
8. Acceptable
9. Unacceptable
10. Unacceptable
I'd like to clear up that I'm not proposing them as feats as per the Pathfinder definition - I'm merely asking whether you think this is something mundane characters should be able to do.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
I don't understand... Are you asking if mundane people can make any of this ? As a mundane person myself I can't do any...
If you're asking if a "super-hero" can do this (high level character are super-heroes, most of their characteristic are beyond mere mortal achievement... ;) ) then I will answer like this :
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds :
Yes, with enough strength you can do this, the momentum of the weapon will be compensated by your strength...
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
With something heavy enough maybe...
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Of course you can, with enough speed and strength I think it's possible...
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
If you know how to psychologically destabilize or infuriate him enough that he forgot all his survival instinct to hit you you can...
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
Yes, hit points being a summary of a lot of things why not, second breath and all that...
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
That will be difficult without magic help... No I don't think you can do this...
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Yes, with enough speed you can do that... With special wood shoes and training you can too... ;)
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
Well yes...
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Nope, not with some kind of magic...
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
Possible with enough strength and speed...
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds acceptable
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line unacceptable
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack acceptable
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies acceptable
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day acceptable Hit Points are an abstraction anyway, so I see no problem with a 'second wind'.
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight unacceptable
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake unacceptable
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start acceptable but this one is a bit iffy. Is there any magical equipment involved? The record for the long jump in real life is about 30 feet.
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily acceptable As I recall this ability was attributed to the Ki shouts of the Samurai back in the day, so I could buy it.
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance unacceptable Utter nonsense.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds acceptable
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line acceptable but needs hgh level
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack acceptable. in proportion to the level of the enemies.
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies awkward but acceptable
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day unacceptable
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight acceptable at high levels
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake unacceptable for the fighter, yeah for the rogue
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start acceptable, maybe high level
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily acceptable, high level
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance unacceptable
Assuming we're not talking about monks
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable - fighter BAB + crapton of feats
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Unacceptable - unless a fighter can somehow get his strength score into the 30's.
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Acceptable - fighter with great cleave
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
acceptable - happens every day IRL
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
acceptable - the preverbial second wind, not actual healing
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
acceptable, but very very difficult. You'd have to have a damn good camo. Imagine a fully painted modern soldier in some damn good camo paint against the appropriate background. Modern sipers in guilly suits could accomplish the same thing, but that suit is arguably "cover."
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
unacceptable - unless you're a monk from crouching tiger hidden dragon, one of those running lizards, or your feet are a mile long you would have no way to prevent yourself from breaking the surface tension of the water.
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
acceptable - only in D&D world, which doesn't operate on realistic physics, and only with a REALLY REALLY high jump check. To do this without magic would require epic levels, if magic isnt used.
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Maybe, but probably not - again real world physics are not the same as D&D physics. If you're a giant and/or your enemies are much smaller than you this will be easier. Imagine a tiger roaring as loud as it can right next to your head. More likely you could use a mundane tool (firearm, cymbals, etc) to deafen someone...and alert everone in
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
unacceptable - no, no, no, no, no and hell no.
I should say that I believe nearly all are possible in my opinion, but not per definition non-magical, a fighter or rogue is perfectly fine to get some supernatural abilities through feats.
Aside from that assuming pre-epic ability I think they are all acceptable,
except for #10.
The following I would consider to be absolutely magical (Su) abilities :
2, shockwave
6, though technically possible it is thing enough to consider it magical
in all but very specific circumstances and trickery
7, water running
10, the most obvious
Some of the others might or might not be depending on specifics, explaining the ability.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable. I fluff most weapon attacks as not like, oh, you hit him with your sword three times, but as like, you kick out his knee, slash him across his shoulder, then he raises his weapon and bares the brunt of the next blow with his sword, ringing the metal and you can see you likely just jammed the hell out of his elbow. So that sounds fine.
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Acceptable, but I hate the anime flair it has. I imagine it being much more reasonable, but it'd be Unacceptable if there were lights coming up from under the ground and the people were sent flying. If hitting your weapon on the ground caused the earth to shake and knock them off balance a bit, that's fine. Barbarians even have a rage power like that.
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Acceptable, but again, more anime flair. I like martial arts movie flair instead, something like Ong-bak where the character runs up and just wipes them all out with ridiculous chained moves and take downs. One attack? Unacceptable from my fluff perspective.
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
Forcing? Unacceptable. Baiting him into doing it against his better judgment? Acceptable. Going "I use taunt to fixate the ogre" is much less compelling than saying "I'm going to take your mother out to a nice stake dinner and then never call her again!" or anything else more evocative or personally insulting. I, as a GM, react very strongly to any PCs trying to manipulate who I should be attacking... within reason.
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
Acceptable. Hit points are abstract. I don't fluff attacks as having struck a mortal blow until you go into negatives. Feels more like the movies-- either you die, or look like you've died but are actually fine! The ability to take a quick breather to regain some fighting prowess seems fine, and I feel like cure light wounds spells and their ilk more or less remove combat fatigue instead of sewing up gigantic mortal wounds.
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
Acceptable. I don't know, I just view D&D in a very cinematic light. You can see that come out in my answers, definitely. I just imagine the rogue not being there when the peasant looks, and when he leaves, it's revealed where he is-- around a corner, or hidden in plain sight where the peasant didn't look.
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Unacceptable. Water-walking is just magical. It's specifically symbolic of being a supernatural being. Oh, and anime.
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
Acceptable. Considering that the only person in the game who can do this is a rogue or monk with maxed acrobatics, this is fine. Enormous jumps are awesome looking. Who doesn't like The Matrix? It's when _everyone_ can do 50 foot jumps that it becomes goofy.
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Acceptable. Stunning isn't like, MMO, swirlies above head, eyes rolling around. It's like something like... staring, agape, confused, or being struck hard in a sensitive place and stumbling around gasping for air. I can definitely see someone heroic screaming so loud that the people who he's directing his roar at have to drop their weapons and grab their ears.
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
Unacceptable. That's just straight out of anime.
I don't know why I hate anime so much now. I used to love it as a teenager. Now, the tropes just kind of wear on me. The first time I saw someone bust out the ranged sword move? Wow, cool. The ten thousandth time? Pure apathy. Now it's annoyance. Don't mix your anime with my gritty medieval world. Go play BESM!
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Barely acceptable.
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Stupidly unacceptable.
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Unacceptable.
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
Acceptable.
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
Unacceptable.
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
Unacceptable with no cover.
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Unacceptable.
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
Unacceptable.
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Unacceptable. I might buy stunning as a consequence of intimidation, but not based on sheer volume alone.
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
Stupidly unacceptable.
1: Acceptable
2: Acceptable (and really cool)
3: Acceptable (assuming "with one attack" means cleave or whirlwind attack)
4: Unacceptable (I allowed a class to do this in 3.5, it completely broke the game)
5: Acceptable
6: Acceptable (Rogue only)
7: Unacceptable (Acceptable for a monk or ninja)
8: Unacceptable (maybe acceptable for a monk or ninja)
9: Unacceptable (Acceptable for a barbarian)
10: Acceptable (My warrior can do this in my LARP without magic)
This is just something I'm interested in, I'm not trying to prove a point or start a heated argument.
Which of the following feats do you think are either acceptable or unacceptable for a mundane class such as a fighter or rogue to accomplish at some point in their career through non-magical means (no items etc. or spells cast on them)? Just write your reply and either acceptable or unacceptable next to the number of each feat. You are free to explain your opinion, of course.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
All are acceptable. I really like number 6. Go rangers. :)
All are acceptable or unacceptable depending on the game and players. If I'm going for a grittier world then I might be against most of these choices. If I'm going for a fantastic action hero game, then why not dial things up to 11?
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This is just something I'm interested in, I'm not trying to prove a point or start a heated argument.
Which of the following feats do you think are either acceptable or unacceptable for a mundane class such as a fighter or rogue to accomplish at some point in their career through non-magical means (no items etc. or spells cast on them)? Just write your reply and either acceptable or unacceptable next to the number of each feat. You are free to explain your opinion, of course.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Totally acceptable. I can easily see this being done. 6 seconds is a pretty long time frame in a combat situation.
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Not really. While a cool effect, it doesn't really make sense. Now, if it was dusty or sandy or something you might be able to make a dust cloud of some kind around you, but that's about it.
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Hm.... I'd say this is possible, but unlikely. It mostly depends on the kind of armor. Something like plate wouldn't really be feasible.
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
You can't really force a person to attack you without literally controlling their mind. Taunts are cool, and make sense for a game, but realistically I wouldn't take this one. Bluffing could work, but not some kind of intimidating taunt.
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
This depends entirely upon your perception of hit points. Really, if hit points are supposed to represent wounds and injuries, they should only be restored by healing, either by magic or natural. However, finding your "second wind" is quite realistic, so if you view it as fatigue, that'd be totally fine.
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
Totally believable. Camo works.
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Nope. Totally magical. Not gonna happen.
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
The current human record for a long jump is just under 9 meters. A 50' foot jump would be about 15 meters. Given the current rate of athletic progression, it may be possible someday, but I'd say that it's highly unlikely.
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
This is something I'm actually familiar with. As a vocal musician, I have heard and experienced some of the loudest sounds the human voice can produce. That said, I can tell you that neither of these is possible. At best they would be deafened while the roar was going on (continual effect), but stunning is just not possible. I could see being dazzled by it, but that's it.
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
Magic.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds acceptable
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line unacceptable - Maybe for a giant or something, but not for a normal humanoid (and even then, the range would be really short, making it more of a re-fluffing of Whirlwind Attack than a new power.)
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack acceptable
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies unacceptable This isn't a believability issue as much as a game-design one. Players would cry bloody murder if an NPC did this to them instead of the other way around.
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day unacceptable Monks and the like do this using magic. For mundane abilities, this really should just be starting the day with more hit points.
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight acceptable Making your own cover is part of the Stealth skill. I mean, a guy holding still in a ghile suit looks a lot like a shrub.
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake unacceptable
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start acceptable
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily acceptable
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance unacceptable Like 2, physics does not work that way.
All are acceptable given the proper level and situation.
Edit: Because there should be no "mundane" PCs.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable, especially when you take into account that the 4 attacks are arbitrary game mechanics, you could be attacking many more times in reality.
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Unacceptable, its not possible
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Acceptable, more so if we start looking at larger sized enemies attacking smaller ones
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
Acceptable, although probably mental compulsion
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
Acceptable, Its not so much that your wounds are healing via force of will, but the person ignoring pain
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
Acceptable, some people are just unobservant, to me stealth checks are never "out of sight" as much as it is "out of mind"
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Unacceptable, not possible
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
Acceptable, Crazy, but not magical in any way, especially when you start talking about uneven starting and landing points
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Unacceptable all around with deafen, unacceptable without close proximity on stun. If you yell loud enough of of nowhere people are likely to be taken aback for a second, again to me this is mind-effecting
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
Unacceptable, not possible
This is just something I'm interested in, I'm not trying to prove a point or start a heated argument.
Which of the following feats do you think are either acceptable or unacceptable for a mundane class such as a fighter or rogue to accomplish at some point in their career through non-magical means (no items etc. or spells cast on them)? Just write your reply and either acceptable or unacceptable next to the number of each feat. You are free to explain your opinion, of course.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
1:Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds: acceptable though uneccessary as you get itertive attacks
2:Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line:unacceptable please keep your super heroes out of my fantasy
3:Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack: acceptable...as it means that skill can be taken to a non-mundane level
4: Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies: unacceptable....this should be RPed out.
5:Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day: Acceptable...as it means that skill can be taken to a non-mundane level.
6: Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight: acceptable as it means that skill can be taken to a non-mundane level
7: Running across a pool of water, like a small lake: unaccpetable.
8: Jumping 50 feet long after a running start: unaccpetable...unless the world has less gravity than Earth.
9: Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily: unaccpetable...I can see maybe momentarily distracting...or cause fear...but not deafen and stunned and not just to your enemies either.
10:Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance: unacceptable.
My main opinion in this is what is mundane or magical in a fantasy world is different from iors...but there is still a line.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds Acceptable
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line Concept acceptable, flawed execution
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack Acceptable
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies Concept acceptable, flawed execution
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day Concept acceptable, flawed execution
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight Acceptable
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake Genre Error
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start Acceptable
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily Acceptable
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance Genre Error
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable. as said, one's strength can compensate for the Axe's imbalance of weight
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Acceptable, i'd allow it with any weapon, but you would have to be at least 5th level in a martially oriented class. the damage is considered force damage
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Acceptable. 5th level in a martially oriented class, must be in weapon's reach and must be strong enough to justify the massive arc (16+ strength)
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
Acceptable; level check modified by charisma versus DC 10+targets hit dice +target's charisma score
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
Acceptable; hit points are an abstraction, anyone could do this off the bat
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
acceptable. would require a stealth check made at a penalty. basically, you are hiding in the corner of thier visiibility0
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
acceptable; i would consider this an ability of 5th level mobility oriented classes
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
acceptable. even without a running start. ability of more mobility oriented classes
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
acceptable. must be 5th level in a martially oriented class
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
acceptable, must be 5th level in a skill oriented martial class, deals force damage, deals damage to all targets in a strange line
11. shooting an arrow that pierces all targets in a straight line
acceptable. must be 5th level in a martial class and have a 16 or higher strength
12. walking on air
acceptable. maybe it requires passive manipulation of the electricial energies in the enviroment (same explanation i prefer to use for magic/psionics) basically, 5th level in any skill oriented martial class, burn a swift action every round.
13. deal more damage by yelling first
allowable, yelling helps breathing with helps the flow of oxygen which somehow helps improve the swing, must be a martially oriented class, swift action to use, works like arcane strike
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1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable if you're practiced enough to move that fast.
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Unacceptable; a normal creature can't hit the ground hard enough to deal shockwave damage.
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Acceptable if practiced and strong enough (heavy strength requirement).
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
Acceptable, because it happens.
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
Unacceptable, because it implies that you're just automatically healing wounds.
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
Unacceptable only if he's looking straight at you or actively looking for you.
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Unacceptable without the proper footwear or training (think Green Basilisk)
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
Unacceptable; the world long-jump record is just shy of 30 ft.
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Acceptable within limits; an unexpected roar might shock or stun people temporarily, but it's unlikely to deafen them.
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
Unacceptable, unless your distance is measured in inches from the blade and you have ridiculous training.
All acceptable.
Pure Pathfinder? Superhero game. Anything a "brute" superhero comic book character could do non-magically is completely appropriate for Pathfinder.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable.
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Acceptable.
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Acceptable.
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
Acceptable, but undesirable for reasons of PC/NPC parity.
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
Acceptable. Especially since HP are abstract anyway, and don't necessarily represent lethal wounds. The ability to sustain damage at higher levels is already deep into the realm of the fantastic. How many times can I say "the giant smashes your pinky-toe!"
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
Acceptable. This could be a "mystical technique" that is not a part of the magic system, or what have you.
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Acceptable.
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
Acceptable.
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Acceptable.
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
That's a stretch, but acceptable in the right context!
So here's what I mean: It's a superhero game. The non-magic characters are still superheros. Batman does implausible stuff all the time with only the barest explanation. In the power rankings of superhero characters, "magic" is nothing more than a flavor of superpower.
That said, there is batman level non-magic, there is iron-man level non-magic, there is spider-man and the x-men. Some of these characters have supernatural powers (like a monk), and some do not (like a fighter). But none of them are quite mages.
There's still a line that can get crossed, and I think monk/rogue type characters can and should cross it. Hence my answers to #10 and #6.
What if you don't want a superhero game? Well, don't play Pathfinder. That ship sailed back in 3e. You can fire up epic 6 and maybe tone things down a little, but even a cursory inspection of this game reveals that it is about collecting super-powers. Some are just more magically flavored than others.
Now, I love Pathfinder and I play it all the time, but if I were looking for a game that was less super-hero-ey, I would have to move on or houserule it beyond recognition.
Assuming we're not talking about monks
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
unacceptable - unless you're a monk from crouching tiger hidden dragon, one of those running lizards, or your feet are a mile long you would have no way to prevent yourself from breaking the surface tension of the water.
You forgot being a Master of Sinanju. LOL.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable. It happens at full BAB anyway.2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Borderline, you'd need a lot of strength.3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Already in game, so acceptable.4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
Oh of course. With the right group of people, I'd love to implement this as skill checks with intimidate. Might make Cha more important. Heck, even allow you to prevent people from attacking you with intimidate.5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
This. +1. If HP is a reflection of your ability to narrowly avoid real damage, then spending time and perhaps resources to recover is perfect.6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
With no cover in broad daylight? Not so much, unless you are very very good and have a moment to prepare.7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Maybe not for a fully "mundane" character, but one who concentrates on speed and isn't wearing armor, I can see it, but he sinks at the end of his turn.8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
Absolutely.9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Already in the rules. Not to deafen or stun, but the barbarian can panic people that way.10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
Eh... not from a mundane guy. I can see it as a monk or magus ability, but not a fighter. A fighter has to put steel to flesh in my opinion.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Not Acceptable
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack.
Acceptable
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
Semi-Acceptable
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
Not Acceptable
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
Unacceptable
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Acceptable
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
Unacceptable
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Unacceptable
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance.
Very Not Acceptable
-Idle
I'm finding the responses to this poll fascinating, particularly the responses to question #5. Given that hit points are indeed an abstraction, rather than a measure of actual wounds inflicted, the fact that nearly a third of respondents believe that the ability to recover one's will to continue fighting is supernatural strikes me as very strange.
In fact, there's pretty much no consensus on any of these questions. That has some really cool implications.
1. Attacking an opponent 4 times with a greataxe in 6 seconds
Acceptable
I never took the number of attacks in a round to be literal, since HP is abstract. In my games attack rolls are used to see how well you fight over the course of the round against a single opponent. Rather than rolling 3 attack rolls and saying 2 swings of the sword connected while one was dodged or deflected by armor, I see attack rolls as your fighting competence for the round - a higher BAB granting more rolls and thus a better chance of fighting well. While a rogue may only have 2 attack rolls in melee combat, if he using a couple of daggers I may describe it as him doing a slashing flurry of a half dozen or more swipes, and if he only succeeds with one roll state it as only a handfull of those actually grazing the opponent. Alternately, if a fighter uses a greatsword and gets 3 attacks, even if he surpasses the foes AC with all 3, I might describe it as one slow, mighty, sweeping strike. In our games even if your attack rolls beats their AC and does a good amount of HP damage we considr it to either them being worn down by dodging the blow or being grazed, with only critical hits or attacks that bring the foe to 0 or lower actually landing significantly.
2. Slamming the ground with your weapon, causing a shockwave/ripple that damages opponents in a line
Unnacceptable
While cool, it should involve some sort of magic or supernatural influence to accomplish.
3. Cleaving through and killing 6 armored warriors with one attack
Tentatively Acceptable
I can't collect my thoughts coherently enough to adequately explain my reasoning.
4. Taunting your enemy, forcing him to attack you and not your allies
Acceptable (and encouraged!)
5. Drawing upon inner strength, regaining lost hit points a few times a day
Acceptable
Hitpoints are an abstract concept that I see as a combination of physical health, relative fatigue, perserverence, and luck. I see no reason mundane classes shouldn't have a way to replenish them.
6. Managing to hide from a peasant that's looking at you from 30 ft away with no cover in broad daylight
Unacceptable
That's just silly without magic.
7. Running across a pool of water, like a small lake
Tentatively Acceptable
It would depend a lot on the physics of the game world and circumstance.
8. Jumping 50 feet long after a running start
Unacceptable
I feel odd answering this way after answering the previous question. *Shrugs*
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily
Acceptable(ish...)
Not straight up loud enough to deafen them, but perhaps as fightening enough in its feirocity as to stun the opponent or cause a lack of focus on anything else that would translate over to said conditions for lack of better ones in a game setting.
10. Slicing the air, creating a vacuum wave that cuts your opponent from a distance
Unacceptable
See #6.
Gonna go with Evil Abe here. All of these are acceptable in that you're talking about PCs, who are already supernatural/metahuman/whatever in their ability to:
Survive grievous injury, later to the point of laughing it off (a d8 longsword hit that would kill your average commoner means what to an 8th level fighter?)
It means that he shrugged off the attack itself. It's not like both the fighter and the commoner suffered horrific gut wounds and the fighter can ignore it. It's that 5 points of damage to a commoner means a horrific gut wound, and 5 points of damage to the 8th level fighter means a close shave.
Hit points are an abstraction.
For me, it would all depend on the campaign in question- or maybe I should say setting in question. I could see either calling them all unacceptable or all acceptable- it depends on where you want your game to fall on the spectrum of gritty realism> epic heroics.
I just have one that I'll make a specific comment on-
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily: 'THIS IS SPARTA!!!' :P
EDIT: On hit points as an abstraction- I find that this is almost a necessary view for suspension of disbelief. I would always describe any damage as at least a scratch though- never a complete dodge that just wears you down. Why? 2 words- injury poisons.
9. Roaring load enough to deafen or stun enemies temporarily: 'THIS IS SPARTA!!!' :P
To be fair, I believe that also involved a Grecian sandal to the chest.
EDIT: On hit points as an abstraction- I find that this is almost a necessary view for suspension of disbelief. I would always describe any damage as at least a scratch though- never a complete dodge that just wears you down. Why? 2 words- injury poisons.
Oooh, interesting point. Though you could just be sure to describe poisoned attacks as scratches, rather than making that a blanket policy.
Yes, it is almost impossible to get through Fortress of the Stone Giants as a descriptive GM without taking serious liberties.
I found it easier to embrace the superhero game and take the damage as silly and literal. I held my nose to do it, but the game has improved. Abstraction is a perfectly cromulant approach, but hard to keep it up over a whole campaign.
all acceptable
To be fair, I believe that also involved a Grecian sandal to the chest.
Which he could do because the guy was stunned, right? :)
Oooh, interesting point. Though you could just be sure to describe poisoned attacks as scratches, rather than making that a blanket policy.
You could, but I just like to keep it consistent.
To be fair, I believe that also involved a Grecian sandal to the chest.Which he could do because the guy was stunned, right? :)
I'm sure it helped. Leonidas hardly needs the advantage, though. ;)