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So, whether due to paranoia or whatever, I want to explore how I can have a character stay awake forever.
As far as I can surmise, lack of rest causes Fatigue or Exhaustion, but I'm having trouble figuring our how much and at what frequency.
In addition, the Ring of Sustenance indicates clearly that it works if the character sleeps so it is right out for this purpose.
The Paladin lay on hand Mercies can remove the Fatigued and Exhausted conditions, so that may be the path to eternal wakefulness.
It is stated that if you rest for 8 hours you remove the Fatigued condition, if present.
It is also stated that beings need sleep. (Except a short list of non-playable types)
It is not stated that rest must be sleep.
It is not stated what the penalties for lack of sleep are.
Can you help me locate what is in the rules on this subject? - No houserules for now please, let us assume a strict GM.
Also, only Paizo products are allowed. No 3.x stuff.
Take levels of horizon walker if you want immunity to fatigue. Show the world how much of a big damn hero you are by never sleeping!
Oracles with the Lame curse are immune to fatigue at 5th level and Exhaustion at 15th level.
Reducing Exhaustion to Fatigue takes 1 hour of rest, curing Fatigue is possible at lvl 3 Paladin.
Thanks for your proposals, they are both working options, though less handy than the Pally dip.
Anyone got more? :-)
Since your brain uses sleep to deal with all the problems of the day.
Dreaming is important to mental health.
If you go long enough without REM sleep, you will start to halucinate as your dream state starts to leak over into your waking hours.
After about a few days to a week of this, you become psychotic.
Never sleeping would be really bad.
Non-sleep rest will restore physical fatigue and exaustion, but it will not help your brain. Which is the real reason we sleep.
For completeness sake:
As a 20th level oracle of nature you could change your type to plant.
Also, as a 20th level oracle of life you become immune to bleed, death attacks, exhaustion, fatigue, nausea effects, negative levels, and sickened effects.
For NSC-Casters there is always Lichdome of course...
Since your brain uses sleep to deal with all the problems of the day.
Dreaming is important to mental health.If you go long enough without REM sleep, you will start to halucinate as your dream state starts to leak over into your waking hours.
After about a few days to a week of this, you become psychotic.
Never sleeping would be really bad.
Non-sleep rest will restore physical fatigue and exaustion, but it will not help your brain. Which is the real reason we sleep.
This is also a reality where you can sprinkle diamond dust on a person, pray a bit, and bring said person back to life. For some reason I think not needing to sleep is kinda not a big deal for magic.
A dark blue rhomboid ioun stone installed in a wayfinder typically grants the following resonant power
The wearer no longer suffer penalties on Perception checks for being distracted or asleep; during sleep the wearer may remain open-eyed and fully aware of his environment, though he is still helpless against undetected threats until he actually wakes up. Seekers of Secrets, p. 52
So you wouldn't be technically awake the whole time, but you'd have your eyes open and would remain aware, which is pretty close for most purposes.
Carry a copy of Finding Plot Holes for Dummies and read it if you get tired.
let us assume a strict GM.
An actual strict GM would never allow this, barring a racial template or ability that specifically allows it. Rules-lawyering a way into it is absurd.
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Reducing Exhaustion to Fatigue takes 1 hour of rest, curing Fatigue is possible at lvl 3 Paladin.
Thanks for your proposals, they are both working options, though less handy than the Pally dip.
Anyone got more? :-)
Surprised no one has mentioned it:
Lesser restoration dispels any magical effects reducing one of the subject's ability scores or cures 1d4 points of temporary ability damage to one of the subject's ability scores. It also eliminates any fatigue suffered by the character, and improves an exhausted condition to fatigued. It does not restore permanent ability drain.
So anyone who can cast lesser restoration daily is covered.
The paladin in my group has been using his remove fatigue mercy to keep awake. So far I have allowed it but it kind of doesn't seem right. I can't find any rules for sleep deprivation in the core book however so I am unsure on how to handle this.
It's certainly possible to eliminate the penalties from not sleeping, but if you are playing a person rather than a machine, you wouldn't want to stay awake 24/7 even if you could.
It's certainly possible to eliminate the penalties from not sleeping, but if you are playing a person rather than a machine, you wouldn't want to stay awake 24/7 even if you could.
You Sir, are underestimating my crazy! :-)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions#TOC-Sanity-and-Madness
I think Schizophrenia would fit the bill for hallucinations after 3+ days of no sleep, whether or not fatigue/exhaustion is cured. I'd say it would be temporary up to maybe a week without sleep, wherein it needs to be cured.
As for realism, well, I suspend and allow reality according to if it pleases me and provides a good gaming experience, Mr Alarm. :D
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions#TOC-Sanity-and-Madness
I think Schizophrenia would fit the bill for hallucinations after 3+ days of no sleep, whether or not fatigue/exhaustion is cured. I'd say it would be temporary up to maybe a week without sleep, wherein it needs to be cured.
As for realism, well, I suspend and allow reality according to if it pleases me and provides a good gaming experience, Mr Alarm. :D
I love this. I think I will use it for my game.
Well, magic can usually provide a good answer to these issues... however, the real-life situation is more interesting. What people fail to discuss here is that there really ought to be more conditions for this rare situation where someone actively tries to not sleep. Exhausted and fatigued are fine... but say you stay awake for one night and then try for another. Eventually you get so tired you can actually fall asleep standing. That is FAR worse than penalties for exhaustion. What would it be like after another two days? Three? I would say you would eventually reach a situation where you need constant and insistent external stimuli to avoid falling asleep. A Will save, perhaps, rolled every hour, with a cumulative penalty, to avoid making some Zs. No matter that otyugh that's approaching, that rough dungeon floor sure looks yummy comfortable...
Since your brain uses sleep to deal with all the problems of the day.
Dreaming is important to mental health.If you go long enough without REM sleep, you will start to halucinate as your dream state starts to leak over into your waking hours.
After about a few days to a week of this, you become psychotic.
Never sleeping would be really bad.
Non-sleep rest will restore physical fatigue and exaustion, but it will not help your brain. Which is the real reason we sleep.
Sleep has a few basic known functions, and about a gazillion unknowns.
Poisons accumulate in the brain, and only dissipate during sleep periods. Likewise, other chemicals that keep us alert diminish over the course of the day.
Some chemical processes in the body, some protein generation, a fair amount of hormore, especially growth hormones, are produced only while sleeping.
Inactivity allows recuperation that activity does not allow. You do not heal faster, per se, but you aggravate the healing process less. It allows for stress relief as well (but 8 hours of practiacally any leisure activity could do the same so it's not exactly causal)
sleep Conserves energy, mostly at a time when, biologically, it is not energy efficient to be active (you use significantly more energy hunting in the dark for food with our sub par night vision for instance)
Memory consolidation: is a theory, but is hotly debated. some studies display a tendency for people to perform better at recollection and problem solving after sleep as opposed to those who performed other tasks during a similiar time frame. results are inconclusive.
Need to dream: it's a mis-statement. you need to sleep, mostly for the above reasons. Dreaming occurs, typically as an epiphenomenom of other , odd, electrical brain activity that occurs when asleep.
There's a lot of conjecture beyond this (and even within this), but fundamentally, if you can abolish the fatigue, and repair the damage, you go a long way to avoiding sleep. memory and thought consolidation may be essential, but the jury remains undecided as to how important sleep is to those functions. Some chemical processes may need to be shored up as well, but, well....~Magic~.
The question remains, what would you do with those extra 8 hours?
You will need extra calories for a start. one extra meal per day will be needed. Also, you will need something to do. 8 hours is a lot of time. you could pick up a new hobby, but it has to be one that can be done in the dark, while everyone else is asleep (No perform: percussion please).
Batts
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You can't depend on spells or other magic to stay up, they can be interpreted to need sleep to replenish.
The easiest way to never sleep is..... play an elf.
"Though elves are immune to magical sleep effects, the
idea that they never rest is a myth. Instead, though
they do not fall unconscious the way other humanoids
do, elves may enter a deep trance that has the same
refreshing effect on the mind as human sleep. An elf
only needs to meditate in this fashion for 4 hours per
day, though some prefer longer periods. During this rest,
an elf performs habitual mental exercises, reviews old
memories, allows his intuition to seek enlightenment,
and so on. Some mischievous elves enjoy perpetuating
the myth that their kind is always awake and elven towns
have no beds; the truth is that while some elves prefer
to meditate in a chair or on a couch, others enjoy the
comfort of an actual bed."
-The Elves of Golarion pg 5
You should be able to make a perception check from your trance. Then just trance with your back to a wall.
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I believe that when the players meet him, a particular NPC from one of the Adventure Paths has been using Lesser Restoration to stave off the effects of fatigue gained from not sleeping. It does say however that this is beginning to take a mental toll on that NPC.
Reading between the lines on this one, yes you can go a long time using various fatigue curing powers to avoid sleep but after a while it takes a mental toll on you.
I would say that after a couple of weeks a PC would start getting wisdom damage and eventually would be forced to sleep. That's just a houserule though.
The easiest way to never sleep is..... play an elf.
Not anymore. In the Pathfinder RPG, elves sleep. Elves of Golarion was written for 3.5 rules.
The easiest way to never sleep is..... play an elf.
Not anymore. In the Pathfinder RPG, elves sleep. Elves of Golarion was written for 3.5 rules.
+1 Elves sleep in pathfinder.
+1 Elves sleep in pathfinder.The easiest way to never sleep is..... play an elf.
Not anymore. In the Pathfinder RPG, elves sleep. Elves of Golarion was written for 3.5 rules.
Btw where IS that change? I remember in Second Darkness going to an elf outpost and it specifically talking about elves not sleeping.
Since paizo wrote second darkness and elves of golarion, why would they change it for pathfinder, and again, where i can i find it?
Since paizo wrote second darkness and elves of golarion, why would they change it for pathfinder, and again, where i can i find it?
They changed it because they didn't like that elves didn't sleep. You can find it by not finding "elves don't sleep" anywhere in the Elves section. If elves didn't have to sleep, it would say so. Since it doesn't, elves will default to the regular Humanoid type description.
You could also search for a James Jacobs post where he says that elves have to sleep in Pathfinder.
Here. 6th post down.
Neato.
I don't think we *Ever* ran into elves dont sleep until second darkness. So I just assumed it was Golarion elves (we dont have any races of golarion books). Of course we didn't play 2nd edition either, and maybe just missed it in 3.5 where it says elves don't sleep. So there for, I thought it was "new". Ha Ha
Going by the rules... the only folks that run into real problems with this are spellcasters who MUST have sleep even if they do not require it otherwise.
There was a character on Dr. Who who got turned into an Auton.. He guarded the tomb of his wife for over 2,000 years until the Doctor came back to revive her. (long story)
Auton = fancy life mimicking robot. Robots don't sleep.
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Lesser Restoration is the best way to do this. In fact, it was even used in an AP by one of the NPCs to stay awake for multiple days.
The problem that you're going to run into is the lack of "fatigue reset".
You get an hour of hustling and eight hours of normal walking between sleep cycles; after that, each additional hour of marching or hustling may result in fatigue.
So if you never sleep, you risk fatigue (and then exhaustion) each and every hour that you're on your feet. Even the Fort saves for normal activity (walking) quickly become 95% fatigue events.
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The problem that you're going to run into is the lack of "fatigue reset".
You get an hour of hustling and eight hours of normal walking between sleep cycles; after that, each additional hour of marching or hustling may result in fatigue.
So if you never sleep, you risk fatigue (and then exhaustion) each and every hour that you're on your feet. Even the Fort saves for normal activity (walking) quickly become 95% fatigue events.
If you're walking around for the whole time, sure. If you hike for 8 hours and then stay up all night to keep watch (not walking)? That's different.
Also, that walking bit is more than 8 hours *in a day*, not before sleeping. So in the example of a character marching for 8 hours with his buddies then staying up the rest of the time (not walking), that's certainly possible.