The Great Sword hit and run scout


Advice


So the idea here is that TWF rogues have to stand in place to really use both weapons. I want an insane jack rabbit who runs around whacking people and escaping.

With the Scout subclass, a Rogue apparently gets to sneak attack after moving 10 ft. So! Why not leverage spring attack? This seems much more reliable than the intimidate option. AND I can avoid melee by continually running behind the fighter! fun!

The net result is a Rogue who hits more often than the TWF for comparable damage and who can retreat to safety AND gets access to whirlwind attack which is just plain fun. The whirlwind attack is just nice to have as an option... particularly if I can add in "Lunge" at level 11 or something.

He ends up having three good ways to get SA damage:

1) Flanking. BUT, because he relies on a 2 handed sword, he loses less damage from moving than a twf rogue

2) Sneaking. Yay. Half-Elf feat: skill focus sneak!

3) Spring attack.

And he can do all of that by level 5

So here we go:

Class: Rogue (Scout)
Race: Half-elf (I am racist against orcs, sorry)
Trait: Heirloom weapon: greatsword
Trait: Qaidara shadow (stealth move at full speed)
20pt buy....
Str: 18 (+2 from being half elf)
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 11
Cha: 12

1.Rogue:(1): Power Attack ; Half-Elf Feat: Skill focus, Stealth +1d6SA
2. Rogue (2): Talent: Wep Focus Great Sword
3: Rogue (3) Feat: Dodge +2d6SA
4: Rogue(4) Talent: (feat) Mobility
5: Rogue (5) Feat: Spring attack +3d6
6: Rogue (6) Talent: Trap spotter
7: Rogue(7) Feat: Whirlwind attack +4d6
8: Rogue (8) Talent: Opportunist
9: Rogue(9) Feat: Vital Striker? +5d6

Skills:

Stealth
Acrobatics
Climbing
Disable Device
UMD
Perception
Bluff
Sleight of hand
(or something)

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

If your GM decides to not allow heirloom weapon you can always drop the half-elf's skill focus for proficiency with the greatsword. Or add on the swashbuckler archtype (this option would let you be human) to get weapon proficiency, but that does lose trapfinding. However if you're not so big on traps, it would let you take combat trick again.


Where are you getting the scout class from? The reason I ask is I thought that you needed a +1 BAB to choose power attack.


Furious Focus would be a better feat for this character. As you go up in levels the penalty to hit is going to be more of a problem for a 3/4 BAB class than anything else.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

+1 to Furious Focus. Also you'd need Combat Expertise to get Whirlwind Attack.


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Tactically, hitting without being hit back = joy!

Tho I'd hazard a guess and say their will be a sweet spot in the AC range of your targets. I would further, with no regards for my own safety, hazard another guess and postulate that the lower end of this sweet spot will favour lot's of attacks with low chances of hitting versus while the higher end would favour one attack with a greater chance of hitting.

Assuming each attack landing is bring +sneak attack damage.

Maybe.

Anyone?

..but aye, it's a sound tactic with definite advantages in certain situations, that's for sure. Deciding what that means to you would, obviously, be a personal choice.

Some may be dissuaded by the build you propose. Perhaps they feel it is too focused on one tactic/element.

Others may love it. I love the idea. I can hang a character on it, fer sure!

*shakes fist*


1.Rogue:(1): Dodge ; Half-Elf Feat: Skill focus, Stealth +1d6SA
2. Rogue (2): Talent: Wep Focus Great Sword
3: Rogue (3) Feat: Power attack +2d6SA
4: Rogue(4) Talent: (feat) Mobility
5: Rogue (5) Feat: Spring attack +3d6
6: Rogue (6) Talent: Trap spotter
7: Rogue(7) Feat: Furious focus +4d6
8: Rogue (8) Talent: Opportunist
9: Rogue(9) Feat: Vital Striker? +5d6

Fixed? Dropped whirlwind attack for furious focus. I do not have the APG yet and so was unaware of that feat. Looked it up and it is pretty sweet.

And yeah, this build looks like a ton of fun to me. The TWF stuff is great, except that you have to stand in one place to do it, and you therefore are more exposed and can use TWF less often. Also, the greatsword idea is hilarious to me.

I am sorry to lose whirlwind attack, but with all of the moving I plan on doing, I suppose I would not use it too often.

That said, a sneak attack + whirlwind + lunge would be highly amusing.

EDIT: The Scout class comes from "The Complete adventurer"


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Jumping Jack Rabbit Gelmir wrote:

Also, the greatsword idea is hilarious to me.

Noble homicidal sir, may I interest you in an Earthbreaker?

''Hey hey, it's blunt force trauma!'' wrote:

Earth breaker

Source: AA
Cost: 40 gp
Damage: 1d10 small/2d6 medium
Crit: x3
Damage Type: B
Special: Hurts.

As your relying on one attack you have less chance of scoring a critical than say, a dude making multiple attacks with the same weapon.

So, if this is true (if..) then you're not really banking on crits for you damage - if you wanted to do so you'd build something that made lots of attacks with a weapon that has an increased crit chance..

..so, aye, sod the crit chance and grab the increased crit multiplier.

When your attack DOES crit, you get to wet yourself giggling...

o_o

wut?

Did I mention it's heavy *and* blunt?

FIREBALL!1!!1one!1

*shakes fist*


Fun. I'll check that out.

Also, I just noted that the scout rules REPLACE sneak attack with skirmish (which allows the SA damage after moving)

So, this really is a one trick pony. Skirmish is really meant for bows.

Interesting.


Gelmir wrote:

Fun. I'll check that out.

Also, I just noted that the scout rules REPLACE sneak attack with skirmish (which allows the SA damage after moving)

So, this really is a one trick pony. Skirmish is really meant for bows.

Interesting.

So you *have* to move 10ft to gain sneak attack damage?

Interesting.

Hmm, you could pick up the Major Magic talent and choose the spell Vanish to help you hide the round after an attack - if needed.

''Teh Intrawebz'' wrote:

Major Magic (Sp):

A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list two times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level.

The save DC for this spell is 11 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. The rogue must have an Intelligence of at least 11 to select this talent. A rogue must have the minor magic rogue talent before choosing this talent.

*shakes fist*


Take a look at the scout archetype from the APG. You lose uncanny dodge, but gain a SA on a charge at 4th, and the skirmish at 8th.

Liberty's Edge

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Take a look at the scout archetype from the APG. You lose uncanny dodge, but gain a SA on a charge at 4th, and the skirmish at 8th.

I'm so confused, I thought that was what we were talking about.

I have a similar-ish character (Rogue/Scout 4, Barbarian/Invulnerable Rager 6, Chevalier 3) that has great success, though he tends to plant himself more often due to his high HP. One talent I'd recommend looking at is Positioning Attack, as it can be very useful if you get jammed up in a bad spot (particularly for a lower-HP straight rogue):
D20PFsrd.com wrote:
Positioning Attack (Ex): Once per day, when a rogue with this talent hits a creature with a melee attack, she can move up to 30 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity. The movement must end in a space adjacent to the creature hit with the melee attack. Source: Advanced Player's Guide

It doesn't specify you can't tumble as part of your movement, so there's really no way you can get completely boxed in (tumble through an opponent's square without provoking to break out of being surrounded).


In 3.5 there was a scout that swapped sneak attack for skirmish. From what he posted it looks like that is the one he is using. The archetype in the APG can still get a normal SA.


Gelmir wrote:

Some stuff.

And then.

EDIT: The Scout class comes from "The Complete adventurer"

The PF Scout is in APG. I'd look that up, if you playin PF, it'd be better you go with the archetype for Scout, and not a conversion from 3.5


Look here before posting more.


Vital Strike can also apply to ranged attacks

and there nothing in the scout rules that say the 10ft move flat foot only applies to melee

meaning you can be an awsome switch hitter easily shifting between ranged and melee

to make things work better you'd need to be using the biggest dice weapons possible.

you'd also want to look at making the most of your single attack.
being able to swift truestrike yourself would be a huge benefit

Another awsome option is going small with medium mount and then using feats like spirited charge and vital to multiply your damage dice to significant levels.

again becuase your mount is moving and you only have a std action it works perfectly with the single attack build.

of course you dont get a mount with your class so its going to be a weak link

unless you borrow the druid companion hehehe


An 8th level scout rogue get you the 10ft move = flatfooted , I'm wondering if a multiclass might make things works better ?


This idea is awesome.


Phasics wrote:
Another awsome option is going small with medium mount and then using feats like spirited charge and vital to multiply your damage dice to significant levels.

That's my plan for the next time I want to build a rogue. Halfling rogue/scout, leadership feat at 7th level to get a Blink Dog mount.

Liberty's Edge

I used to think there was only one viable (3.5 class) Scout build. Now I see that I was wrong.

A ranged scout, with Shot on the Run and Ranged Skirmisher (feat from Dragon) is pretty effective. A mounted scout with a lance? Devastating. :D

Sczarni

Gelmir wrote:

1.Rogue:(1): Dodge ; Half-Elf Feat: Skill focus, Stealth +1d6SA

2. Rogue (2): Talent: Wep Focus Great Sword
3: Rogue (3) Feat: Power attack +2d6SA
4: Rogue(4) Talent: (feat) Mobility
5: Rogue (5) Feat: Spring attack +3d6
6: Rogue (6) Talent: Trap spotter
7: Rogue(7) Feat: Furious focus +4d6
8: Rogue (8) Talent: Opportunist
9: Rogue(9) Feat: Vital Striker? +5d6

Fixed? Dropped whirlwind attack for furious focus. I do not have the APG yet and so was unaware of that feat. Looked it up and it is pretty sweet.

And yeah, this build looks like a ton of fun to me. The TWF stuff is great, except that you have to stand in one place to do it, and you therefore are more exposed and can use TWF less often. Also, the greatsword idea is hilarious to me.

I am sorry to lose whirlwind attack, but with all of the moving I plan on doing, I suppose I would not use it too often.

That said, a sneak attack + whirlwind + lunge would be highly amusing.

EDIT: The Scout class comes from "The Complete adventurer"

This is all good and well except for one fatal flaw

Spring Attack requires a Base Attack Bonus of +4


Icaste Fyrbawl wrote:
Gelmir wrote:

1.Rogue:(1): Dodge ; Half-Elf Feat: Skill focus, Stealth +1d6SA

2. Rogue (2): Talent: Wep Focus Great Sword
3: Rogue (3) Feat: Power attack +2d6SA
4: Rogue(4) Talent: (feat) Mobility
5: Rogue (5) Feat: Spring attack +3d6
6: Rogue (6) Talent: Trap spotter
7: Rogue(7) Feat: Furious focus +4d6
8: Rogue (8) Talent: Opportunist
9: Rogue(9) Feat: Vital Striker? +5d6

Fixed? Dropped whirlwind attack for furious focus. I do not have the APG yet and so was unaware of that feat. Looked it up and it is pretty sweet.

And yeah, this build looks like a ton of fun to me. The TWF stuff is great, except that you have to stand in one place to do it, and you therefore are more exposed and can use TWF less often. Also, the greatsword idea is hilarious to me.

I am sorry to lose whirlwind attack, but with all of the moving I plan on doing, I suppose I would not use it too often.

That said, a sneak attack + whirlwind + lunge would be highly amusing.

EDIT: The Scout class comes from "The Complete adventurer"

This is all good and well except for one fatal flaw

Spring Attack requires a Base Attack Bonus of +4

If you plan on taking some full BAB levels which I personally think is a good idea so you can get Greater vital with a +16 BAB eventually , you simply need to take a full bab level or two early and your good to go. being feat intensive fighter might be a good choice there's prob an archtype that offer a decent syngery with this build as well

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