| Terrinam |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Which brings up another question in my mind: is orgy gendered for most of you (it is not for me)?
Hmm... Depends on your view of things.
It does imply the presence of both sexes, and presumably the two most prevalent genders, so you could argue it kinda is. At the same time, specifically sexing it (like a lesbian orgy or a gay orgy) is necessary to accurately communicate the presence of a single sex.
What about an “orgy of violence”?
That brings to mind women for me, but I like seeing strong women kick butt. Now I need to go rewatch Wonder Woman.
And why, oh why, do we relate sexual activity with violence so readily?
Think about it, and you'll understand a lot of what's going on in the world at the moment.
Now, here's a fun mystery for you: Why did "werman" drop its prefix when "woman" didn't?
Almost as much of a mystery as where my clothes went.
| Tacticslion |
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
So I have been in the hospital with yet another lung infection since last Monday, and I think I'm going to be getting out later this week. I have had some time to write some of my thoughts on 3.x and PF, and I'm just egotistical and medicated enough to think that some of you may be interested. It is positive stuff:
Nice! I agree with much of it, though I was surprised when it ended as (and when) it did. It seems like there's more to build upon what you were saying, possibly seguing into pointing out solid design goals.
It was also surprising to see you referring directly to 3rd/3.5 with occasional acknowledgements of PF's existence - it shouldn't be, but I've become so used to the other way around that it's still surprising when it occurs.
Also: you didn't expound enough on how lame the assassin class actually is (no matter how cool it seems); 0/10 would not read again. This is a joke.
I'm of the personal opinion that for "balance" purposes, caster classes should be more specialized (see: beguiler, warmage, etc.), as this more strictly limits the options (and thus power) available, as well as providing exacting theme-ing.
Meanwhile the broadness of a martial's abilities seems fine, but I would like them to be more useful.
Some of the things I've long suggested as a change:
- Monks' extra speed is gaining additional "free" five-foot steps each round - basically gaining an additional 5-ft. step at first level and every even level thereafter. This gives them an effective "speed" increase that is technically less than their standard "run faster!" but it allows their abilities to work together (instead of shutting each other down), and presents a mobile martial artist who really can move, strike, and tank sans equipment, or get out when needed - which is pretty much exactly what martial arts are supposed to let you do.
- Rogues' "sneak attack" becoming an "opportune strike" that proc's on a wider variety of attacks, and increases attack and damage for that round; added to this, it's a straightforward mathematical formula (generally +2 or +3 with a +1/lvl thereafter; sometimes less, sometimes more) - this makes rogues relatively 'meh' in a straight-up fight, but allows them to be moderate powerhouses in their own categories, and permits easier multi-classing (just add your total levels and that's your bonus) while strengthening the basic concept. I love the idea of rogue talents, but they're so all-over-the-place that they still really don't quite put the rogue where they need to be. Both ninjas and slayers allow the "rogue"-style character to really be a much more solid contender without the rogue class; Unchained's whole thing was pretty solid, but not for everyone. The ninja still suffers in some regards, and isn't strictly non-magical as some want from their rogues, but makes a decent chassis - I'd actually make a rogue that can do several of the things the ninja can do but in a non-magical way - or rather, I would have it invalidate the need for magical abilities to get away with what it does.
- Fighters' weapon stuff from PF was a great idea with janky implementation. It really should function along a more even line - perhaps being variable, like a ranger's favored enemy, but even if not, it just needs to be more broadly applicable. I dislike that the AWT and AAT abilities (which are super-needed, and pretty great) actually prevent you from gaining the general WT and AT abilities, but... alas. I also want their bravery to be more broadly applicable - either able to turn fear effects back on their foes on a successful save, or to apply to multiple effects (not just mind-effects) or something else. Sslarn I haven't seen him in a while, I hope he's doing okay! managed to make (and publish) a number of really cool feats allowing Bravery to do stuff, but it's a patch (if a nifty one), with the same problems as the Advanced WT/AT (that of opportunity cost).
Mechanically, Rangers and Barbarians are actually pretty solid as-is (as are Paladins).
And I'm sad at the active and heavy-handed disincentivization of PrCs in PF (as well as the similar disincentivization of particular styles of play as being "wrong") even as I'm otherwise impressed and pleased with their story-crafting (even with any flaws, system-failures, and system-mastery-failures), world-building, and customer responsibility and interface.
... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand now I'm rambling.
Point is: you write good stuff!
| The Batter |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Freehold DM wrote:Ah man, the company was liquidating co-workers too? Sooooo hungry...captain yesterday wrote:rides wild horses into captain yesterday store, leaps off of horse to eat a coworker in horrifying act of cannibalism, asks for directions to my little pony clearanceBetween the 58 degree weather, the job interview this morning, and Pact Worlds hopefully out for delivery today, my enthusiasm for working tonight is at an all time low.
Edit: I also anticipate a picked over carcass of a store when I get there, people have been relentless g+$+@+n savages.
No more corpse-sugar for you, burnt. Prepare to be Purified.
| Tequila Sunrise |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Looks fine enough ^^
I agree mostly on almost every point.
The real rub is just solving the Rp vs mechanical mess that the D&D-ish lineage has made the class-based system over the years. That said it is mostly functional, if a bit of a ass-backwards, confusing balancing act in making the class "equal" in importance, ease of use and in-game impact.Figuring that equation out to a satisfactory degree is a tall task to ask of anyone, and most of the time the attempts fall short somewhere in the development. That of cause doesn't mean we shouldn't try, quite the opposite actually, its important to test out as many "angles of attack" on the class-based system as possible, so we can find those sweet nuggets of goodness that it does hide.
Well said, and I'm honest with myself about my game tinkerings: If a game ever actually results from them, it will be a heartbreaker -- a game that looks and plays not terribly differently from hundreds of other D&D-like games, with a few nuggets of goodness hidden within. ;)
I've been playing around with the idea of just merging all the Craft [insert some sort of magical gear] feats into the respective Crafting Skills (fx jewelry for Rings, weapon smith for weapon's and so on)
No reason I can see it couldn’t work.
Also what would the "imagined" consequences be if "feat->Improved->greater feat lines kind of automatically upgrade to the next level if the prerequisites were meet.
(Yea I could see exceptions where it wouldn't make sense like Improved shield bash or Improved Stone cunning or the like...but slapping on a different pre-req or something like BaB +x or level X could solve that?)
The two-weapon tree came to mind reading this and yeah, I think for something like that it's a no-brainer. I'd even add a third auto-feat to grant a fourth off-hand attack! I'm rusty on other feat chains and unfamiliar with the PF ones, so I'm not gonna say DO IT ALL! But when you've got any feat chain that grants diminishing returns like the two-weapon fighting one, I say do it.
| Tequila Sunrise |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Nice! I agree with much of it, though I was surprised when it ended as (and when) it did. It seems like there's more to build upon what you were saying, possibly seguing into pointing out solid design goals.
Thanks! My plan is to next go thru the PHB classes, smash them apart, and then reassemble them into a set of broad classes. :)
It was also surprising to see you referring directly to 3rd/3.5 with occasional acknowledgements of PF's existence - it shouldn't be, but I've become so used to the other way around that it's still surprising when it occurs.
Ha yeah, I never really became a PF player so I still think mostly in terms of 3.5. But I'm sure PF has introduced a few interesting bits and bobs, so feel free to point them out to me -- like I'll have to take a look at ninjas, slayers, and rogue talents when I smash the rogue apart.
I'm of the personal opinion that for "balance" purposes, caster classes should be more specialized (see: beguiler, warmage, etc.), as this more strictly limits the options (and thus power) available, as well as providing exacting theme-ing.
I'm of two minds on this. Specializing all casters is an effective way to limit their power...but I REALLY like the idea of the ur-mage, a caster who can cast any spell she puts her mind to. And I'm even toying with the idea of a monotheistic priest class (because I'm a glutton for controversy, apparently) that can cast any appropriate-level spell. Doing that in any kind of a balanced way may be a pipe dream, but anyway. I like generalist casters, and I'd rather tone down the quadratic aspect of casters (generalists in particular) than categorically eliminate generalists.
- Monks' extra speed is gaining additional "free" five-foot steps each round - basically gaining an additional 5-ft. step at first level and every even level thereafter. This gives them an effective "speed" increase that is technically less than their standard "run faster!" but it allows their abilities to work together (instead of shutting each other down), and presents a mobile martial artist who really can move, strike, and tank sans equipment, or get out when needed - which is pretty much exactly what martial arts are supposed to let you do.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to go the 4e route and do away with the whole full-attack thing. Which at once solves the monk's anti-synergy issue, but eliminates a potential class shtick that other classes lack. Not sure what I'm going to do with this...
- Rogues' "sneak attack" becoming an "opportune strike" that proc's on a wider variety of attacks, and increases attack and damage for that round; added to this, it's a straightforward mathematical formula (generally +2 or +3 with a +1/lvl thereafter; sometimes less, sometimes more) - this makes rogues relatively 'meh' in a straight-up fight, but allows them to be moderate powerhouses in their own categories, and permits easier multi-classing (just add your total levels and that's your bonus) while strengthening the basic concept.
Could you expand on what things an opportune strike might proc on? I remember liking the idea of Improved Feint(?) and literal sneak attacking, because they involve using skills to proc and rogues are all about the skillz. Of course introducing the skill roll to the attack process makes simple flanking preferable, but other proc situations could hypothetically grant additional advantages.
... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand now I'm rambling.
Point is: you write good stuff!
Hey, thanks, and you can always ramble at me!
| NobodysHome |
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, THAT was an "interesting" walk home. 4 way stop. SUV in front of me does the standard "California" thing and rolls past so I can walk into the crosswalk. Another car is coming but I've got a lot of white on my pants, and sure enough he stops...
...then starts rolling again, RIGHT INTO ME!!
Er, if you're not actually going to LOOK, then what good does STOPPING do?!?!
(I'm fine -- I yelled and stepped back and he slammed on the brakes so there was no physical contact, but I quite nearly got knocked over by a giant SUV for reasons unknown. Probably texting or something.)
| Vanykrye |
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Also what would the "imagined" consequences be if "feat->Improved->greater feat lines kind of automatically upgrade to the next level if the prerequisites were meet.
(Yea I could see exceptions where it wouldn't make sense like Improved shield bash or Improved Stone cunning or the like...but slapping on a different pre-req or something like BaB +x or level X could solve that?)
I've seen this suggested in multiple places, including magazine articles (Gygax, I think, was one of them). As a concept I'm really in favor of it.
Vital Strike is a good candidate for this, as is a chunk of the Two-Weapon Fighting chain. The Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes/Great Fortitude chains would qualify to me. Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus would just collapse into the 3E Spell Focus that gives +2 spell DC again since Greater Spell Focus merely requires Spell Focus (a human could take both at 1st level under the current rules). It definitely frees up a lot of feat space for the martials to get more going.
It definitely reduces some of the feat chain requirements, but the question for me is where do you draw the line? What about the Style feat chains? Is Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (along with their Greater variants) two feats that improve over time or is it just one feat that improves at 1, 4, 8, and 12 for fighters and those classes that count their levels as fighter levels for this sort of thing?
How would it effect a really feat-intensive archery character? Eh...not much, as far as I can tell. Precise Shot would net you Improved Precise Shot, but I'm not seeing much else that would collapse as neatly. Maybe Rapid Shot leads to Manyshot at BAB +6?
| Scintillae |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Scintillae wrote:Oooooh.... that's some REALLY bad news...So...the good news is the Rainbow managed to pull it together and (thanks to low damage rolls on my end) not die yesterday. The bad news is...
** spoiler omitted **
Yep...I was trying to be nice and decided he had to roll a nat20 to hear them. I had apparently not used them all up with the gargoyles.
| NobodysHome |
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
NobodysHome wrote:oh man shes meeting Hi? Thats FAWESOME!Just a Mort wrote:Will be busy about couple of days. *puts on tourist guide hat*Hooray! Now just do not kill the Hi! We would like him back in no more than 6 pieces...
Yeah; you should SEE the work she's done! Check a few pages back. Hi and I were thinking, "A few suggestions as to places to see, meeting somewhere for dinner, maybe hanging out for a few hours..."
And she produced an amazing full itinerary for his trip, including plans for both sun and rain, and (as far as I know) is accompanying him for much of it. I cannot tell you how overjoyed Hi was to have his own personal tour guide.
And it's seriously hard not to like Hi, especially when he's seeing new things. He is SO enthusiastic, and SO willing to try "whatever". As he put it, "I think she may kill me. She has all these hikes planned, and I don't know whether I'm in good enough shape for it. But Goddess, I'm going to have fun trying!"
It should be a good fit. I look forward to hearing reports from both sides!
EDIT: Of course, this means that WE are Hi-free for the next 6 weeks, which means I have to learn to play FPSes, since that's what NobodysWife and Shiro are playing at the moment. I won't. I'll just stink, as always, and it'll be funny. As long as my teammates don't mind my constant state of decay, it should be quite the entertainment.
Just a Mort
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| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The hikes honest are not hard(I'm a little too clumsy for really hard jungle hiking) as Amazon hikes in the jungle go. The fun part is being on your paws the whole day.
You and him have to have a long talk about OSes. He was like going on about how good Linux is compared to Windows and apparently didn't hear your Linux rant. Also his phone's SIM refused cooperate and since I am Luddite, I can't help him.
| NobodysHome |
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Oh, and Just a Mort, just a "cultural warning" on Hi that'll take a few sentences to explain:
In the U.S., determining who pays for food (and how) at restaurants is very much like gun control, politics, or religion: Everyone has their opinions, and many people get extremely offended if you violate their personal protocols.
Hi is NOTHING like that.
But in our group, we don't want to be bothered with such things, so we've developed the habit of just grabbing the bill and paying it. We don't divvy it up, or try to work out who ate what, because that detracts from our overall enjoyment. Whoever grabs first gets it. It's a fun, twisted competition.
So my *belief* is that he'll let you take the lead and tell him how you want to handle things, but if he snatches the bill away from you and won't even let you look at it before he covers it for you, please don't be offended. Blame me and Shiro; we've trained him that way.
So, YBG was from the South, as were her friends, and apparently letting them sit at the table and paying for their food wasn't enough; all three of them were horrified at their utter mistreatment at NobodysWife's hands. No one has yet been able to explain to me just what she did, but apparently she wasn't "welcoming enough" when they came to the table, so they were offended, YBG was hurt, she forbade YB from joining NobodysWife at the post-dinner karaoke festival, and managed to be so hurtful about the whole thing that NobodysWife spent her birthday night in tears incredibly upset about the whole thing.
It is only due to my Lawful nature that I did not harm them, but I perma-banned them from all future social outings with us. Shiro. Fricking Shiro. Told YB that if that was their attitude, he would like to be reimbursed for their dinners, please. I demanded reimbursement for the science museum tickets I'd bought for them.
The good news is that it accelerated YB's break-up with her. But to this day I still have no idea what we did that set them off, and why YB didn't dump her on the spot to come out to karaoke anyway...
| NobodysHome |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The hikes honest are not hard(I'm a little too clumsy for really hard jungle hiking) as Amazon hikes in the jungle go. The fun part is being on your paws the whole day.
You and him have to have a long talk about OSes. He was like going on about how good Linux is compared to Windows and apparently didn't hear your Linux rant. Also his phone's SIM refused cooperate and since I am Luddite, I can't help him.
Oh, I love Linux when I have the time to deal with it.
But I didn't want to spend 20 hours getting a Linux box working and hoping I could get my games to run on it when I have (Pathfinder) games of my own to run...
| Kjeldorn |
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Will be busy about couple of days. *puts on tourist guide hat*
Dammit! Now I want a hat wearing guide-cat of my own *grumbles*
Vital Strike is a good candidate for this, as is a chunk of the Two-Weapon Fighting chain. The Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes/Great Fortitude chains would qualify to me. Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus would just collapse into the 3E Spell Focus that gives +2 spell DC again since Greater Spell Focus merely requires Spell Focus (a human could take both at 1st level under the current rules). It definitely frees up a lot of feat space for the martials to get more going.
Basically what I was initially thinking.
It definitely reduces some of the feat chain requirements, but the question for me is where do you draw the line? What about the Style feat chains? Is Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (along with their Greater variants) two feats that improve over time or is it just one feat that improves at 1, 4, 8, and 12 for fighters and those classes that count their levels as fighter levels for this sort of thing?
Funnily enough, I was thinking along these very lines when I went to sleep last night.
There are two things here.
First I am a bit torn on it, but I'm leaning to letting style feats upgrade, when the pre-reques are meet.
Lets take a style chain that's rarely used and one that's used often and look them over for the changes.
Spear Dancing Style (pre-reqes - Dex 13, Two-weapon fighting and Weapon focus) -> that's 3 feats to start the "style"
Spear Dancing Spiral (pre-reqes - Dex 15, Spear Dancing Style, Two-weapon fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon focus) -> the style upgrades at the cost of a single feat Weapon finesse (style total cost 4 feats)
Spear Dancing Reach (pre-reqes - Dex 17, Spear Dancing Spiral, Spear Dancing Style, Two-weapon fighting, Weapon finesse, Weapon focus) -> the style upgrades at no cost. (style total cost 4 feats)
Looking at Spear Dancing Style, you only seem to be save a couple (ie 2) of feats from letting it upgrade, when pre-reqes are meet.
Now letting a "style" tree start for free when the when pre-reqes are meet would make things even better of cause, but that might be pushing thing, I'm not really sure...
Lets look at an old favorite; Crane Style.
Crane Style (pre-reqes - Dodge, Improved unarmed strike, base attack bonus +2 or monk level 1st) -> Again it's 3 feats to start the "style"
Crane Wing (pre-reqes - Crane style, Dodge, Improved unarmed strike, base attack bonus +5 or monk level 5th.) -> the style upgrades at no cost (style total cost 3 feats)
Crane Riposte (pre-reqes - Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8 or monk level 7th.) -> the style upgrades again at no cost (style total cost 3 feats)
Again this would net you 2 feats saved, at the end of the style. So the rub seem to be in the pre-reqes. The wider the pre-reques the more feat-intensive the style is, which sorta makes sense, but it does make "style trees" internally a bit wonkey balancing/"power" wise. Its a bit of problem when a tree like Spear Dancing Style is both more mechanically intensive (ie the feat cost) and is of very narrow build usage, and as a final nail in its coffin, its not very synergy-sable with other styles or trees.
As for Weapon focus and specialization, Yes they would likely upgrade at set level. What I'm more unsure of is something like specialization should still have the fighter level req.
I know why they had that requirement, and back in the day, before the Fighter got many of the latest bells and whistles (advanced weapon and armor training), It was needed to keep the Fighter being actually king of something on martial hill. Now a days though, I'm tempted to try out replacing Fighter lvl X with something else. Being a feat that lets you treat your BaB as your fighter level for the purpose of picking feats, or just plain BaB X instead.
How would it effect a really feat-intensive archery character? Eh...not much, as far as I can tell. Precise Shot would net you Improved Precise Shot, but I'm not seeing much else that would collapse as neatly. Maybe Rapid Shot leads to Manyshot at BAB +6?
Yes, here we have an example of where this not efficiently plugging the holes its suppose to plug.
It really comes down to a lot of archery feats not being put into neat "trees" like some of the other feat lines (not the speak of the wobbly all-over-the place naming conventions).So they would probably have to be put into some kind of "prerequisites-trees".
Point-blank shot is almost a pre-req for everything archery related, so it the initial starting feat.
Precise Shot -> improved Precise Shot (when pre-req's are meet)
Rapid Shot -> Many Shot (when pre-req's are meet)
Rapid Reload -> Crossbow mastery (when pre-req's are meet)
Now I would prefer if I could make these consistently around three feats long, for some darned reason *mumbles "everything comes in threes" ad nauseam*
Maybe adding something like Pinpoint Targeting to precise shot line, Clustered Shots to the rapid shot line and so one, but it might tip it over into being a bit "too good", I'll have to ponder it over or maybe do a bit of play testing.
Either way you would be forced into make some sort of "trees" out of the myriad archery feat for archery-build to gain the same advantages out of the underlying ideas as other builds would.
| Kjeldorn |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You know you're not feeling well when you lie down and it feels like the bed is spinning. Being sick sucks. Stupid cold.
*Offers a stiff Scotch*
Heal up quick man, it really seem you've been dogged by sickness a lot lately.
Wish I could do more, but there's a quite large puddle of water separating me from you, so you have to make do this well wishes and mental support.
| Drejk |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Duh. Seems my life was too calm and too stress free for too long...
So my brother mailed my mom that he is under the threat of eviction for incurred debt for not paying the administration of the building. His flat is the one he got from our grandfather, the mom's father, and is the place where my mother grown up.
She was upset by the situation, she was upset by the fact that he basically demanded money to pay up the debt (no please, or anything). Now I am upset as I don't really want to deal with my brother. Especially if he really gets evicted and will try to crash at my place, which is the flat we both grew up, and which I got from our parents.
| Sir Limey De Longears |
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Scintillae wrote:Because English is an NPC class and it has unimpressive class abilities?Walked past the Rainbow discussing tactics in the hall.
...why can't I get them that focused on English class?!
AHEM.
AHEM AHEM.
Dost thou desire to be St Georged?
Because that is how thou gets St Georged, good and proper.
| Syrus Terrigan |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
RE: Game Stuff, Builds, and Balance
I strongly suggest an examination of the Spheres of Power/Might system. Here's a link. It isn't *quite* the same thing as the ideas y'all have been kicking around, but it could dovetail well with some of those ideas. I'm no game designer, really (though I try it from time to time), but I believe it could provide new perspective, and perhaps even some insight . . . . :D
| NobodysHome |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Duh. Seems my life was too calm and too stress free for too long...
So my brother mailed my mom that he is under the threat of eviction for incurred debt for not paying the administration of the building. His flat is the one he got from our grandfather, the mom's father, and is the place where my mother grown up.
She was upset by the situation, she was upset by the fact that he basically demanded money to pay up the debt (no please, or anything). Now I am upset as I don't really want to deal with my brother. Especially if he really gets evicted and will try to crash at my place, which is the flat we both grew up, and which I got from our parents.
Ugh, yeah. *ANY* family property issues are bad family property issues.
Once things went south with the property manager my older brother's immediate reaction was, "Well, if it's this much work, we should just sell the property and be done with it!"
To which I replied, "It wasn't ANY work 'til you started meddling, and I'd rather have $30,000/year FOREVER instead of $1.2 million ONCE, thanks all the same."
He shut up and went away.
| Drejk |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's not really a family property. The flat is legally his. Mine is my (although my parents have a written warranty of co-using my flat for life, a typical clause in case of property gifts, my brother had analogous clause regarding our grandfather). It's more of a family issue.
Also, there are some legal provision in Polish law that allow close relatives to request basic aid from their families, similar to alimony, including via lawsuit.
| NobodysHome |
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am frequently flummoxed by my co-workers, and not in a good way.
Our team lead for this project is testing all our practices before we send them out for external review.
TL: Oh, by the way, NobodysHome, your inbound email lab didn't work. I got no response.
NH: OK, checking... Er... I see that you didn't delete and re-create the communication channel?
TL: No, I did not.
NH: In spite of big red letters and the note saying that if you don't do it, the lab won't work?
TL: Correct.
NH: And the lab didn't work, you say?
TL: Yeah, and I can't figure out why.
I swear, I need a protective helmet for banging my head on my desk...