debuffs to stats on attack is great idea. The problem is, it's bad mechanics to do -1 to a stat. Make it -2, so no matter what there's a penalty. It's the same as the +1 ring of str. Someone with 15 str gets strong but with 16? it goes up to 17 and nothing happens. "Why does this ring make you stronger but not me?"
Bad mechanic. It's silly... oh, and people are never gonna pick that ninja trick if that's how it is.Ninja hits a pressure point! Damn that hurt! But it hasn't slowed me down or weakened me! How lucky! and the ninja is thinking 'has my training been worth nothing?" all because the dude had 15 str instead of 16 str.
It's designed as such since Rogues get Crippling Strike, which is basically Pressure Points with the -2, at lvl 10, meanwhile Pressure Points is basically lvl 2 ability.
It'd be extremely unfair to do what you suggest, at the level it opens up at.
It's designed as such since Rogues get Crippling Strike, which is basically Pressure Points with the -2, at lvl 10, meanwhile Pressure Points is basically lvl 2 ability.It'd be extremely unfair to do what you suggest, at the level it opens up at.
Better to limit it further in other ways then, such as cooldowns, save DC's and the like.
Crippling strike attacks strength... a -1 to hit/Damage isnt a big deal unless they are already encumbered. A potential -1 per hitdice in hitpoints in addition to reduction in Fort save IS a big deal.
1. -1 attack/damage is a big deal at any time for a combat character. It often reduces the damage output with a fair amount of percent - check the DPS olympics where a +1 bonus to hit often translates to an increase in damage in the 10-15% range (example, Jack B Nimble gains a 15.5% damage increase by +1 to hit, +1 to damage, and for Falchion Fred, he would take a -1 to hit penalty and a -2 damage penalty, where a +1/+2 bonus would give him a 12.3% increase in DPR). Also, that -2 strength can for low-strength combat characters such as rogues and the like, remove access to Power Attack which further reduces their damage severely (again, for example, jack b nimble).
2. Yes, it's a big deal, no doubt, but dealing 1 con damage instead of 2 only means there's a certain % chance of having effect, through a very ugly and clunky mechanic (uneven stat scores), where it could have been much easier replicated through to-hit penalties, saving throws (a fort save also means that getting one through means getting more through is easier - something I like), or through cooldowns or the like.
debuffs to stats on attack is great idea. The problem is, it's bad mechanics to do -1 to a stat. Make it -2, so no matter what there's a penalty. It's the same as the +1 ring of str. Someone with 15 str gets strong but with 16? it goes up to 17 and nothing happens. "Why does this ring make you stronger but not me?"
Bad mechanic. It's silly... oh, and people are never gonna pick that ninja trick if that's how it is.Ninja hits a pressure point! Damn that hurt! But it hasn't slowed me down or weakened me! How lucky! and the ninja is thinking 'has my training been worth nothing?" all because the dude had 15 str instead of 16 str.
A 4th level ninja who catches a flatfooted opponent at the beginning of combat, could theoretically drop an opponent FOUR points of strength buy using shuriken, assuming he is using flurry of stars and rapid shot. FIVE points of strength if the ninja also uses TWF. This is still within the realm of possibility due to the flatfooted opponent not having a Dex bonus to AC. If the ninja is attacking from an area of total darkness, said target also might suffer another -2 AC, due to the ninja being essentially hidden/invisible to the target (assuming the target does not have darkvision).
If it was 2 ability damage per strike, that would be a -10 to that boor bastard's strength or dexterity, which IMHO would be very OP.
Edit- oh yeah, that's not counting the 8-10 dice of sneak attack damage in there...
If anything I think that Pressure Points might need to cost 1 die of sneak attack damage to balance out based on how the number of attacks can scale it up dramatically.
I'd argue it is prehaps more effective than crippling strike... sure its not a guarentee of dropping one bonus, but it has the potential of dropping 2 if his opponent has whole numbers in their stats. And with a second crippling strike? A guarrenteed two... also by affecting CON as a stat, you affect HPs. Drop a 10 HD opponents Con? You just did 10 more points of effective damage on top of the damage you just did.
Crippling strike attacks strength... a -1 to hit/Damage isnt a big deal unless they are already encumbered. A potential -1 per hitdice in hitpoints in addition to reduction in Fort save IS a big deal.
I only see it mentioning STR and DEX
debuffs to stats on attack is great idea. The problem is, it's bad mechanics to do -1 to a stat. Make it -2, so no matter what there's a penalty. It's the same as the +1 ring of str. Someone with 15 str gets strong but with 16? it goes up to 17 and nothing happens. "Why does this ring make you stronger but not me?"
Bad mechanic. It's silly... oh, and people are never gonna pick that ninja trick if that's how it is.Ninja hits a pressure point! Damn that hurt! But it hasn't slowed me down or weakened me! How lucky! and the ninja is thinking 'has my training been worth nothing?" all because the dude had 15 str instead of 16 str.
Actually, Pathfinder has a little-known stealth change to the way ability damage works--no matter what your stat is, odd or even, penalties only work once you've taken a -2 (I discovered this one in a PFS game--it's right there in the CRB, but I had missed it for over a year).
debuffs to stats on attack is great idea. The problem is, it's bad mechanics to do -1 to a stat. Make it -2, so no matter what there's a penalty. It's the same as the +1 ring of str. Someone with 15 str gets strong but with 16? it goes up to 17 and nothing happens. "Why does this ring make you stronger but not me?"
Bad mechanic. It's silly... oh, and people are never gonna pick that ninja trick if that's how it is.Ninja hits a pressure point! Damn that hurt! But it hasn't slowed me down or weakened me! How lucky! and the ninja is thinking 'has my training been worth nothing?" all because the dude had 15 str instead of 16 str.
A 4th level ninja who catches a flatfooted opponent at the beginning of combat, could theoretically drop an opponent FOUR points of strength buy using shuriken, assuming he is using flurry of stars and rapid shot. FIVE points of strength if the ninja also uses TWF. This is still within the realm of possibility due to the flatfooted opponent not having a Dex bonus to AC. If the ninja is attacking from an area of total darkness, said target also might suffer another -2 AC, due to the ninja being essentially hidden/invisible to the target (assuming the target does not have darkvision).
If it was 2 ability damage per strike, that would be a -10 to that boor bastard's strength or dexterity, which IMHO would be very OP.
Edit- oh yeah, that's not counting the 8-10 dice of sneak attack damage in there...
If anything I think that Pressure Points might need to cost 1 die of sneak attack damage to balance out based on how the number of attacks can scale it up dramatically.
I was going to agree with the OP, until I read this.
Wow.
Yes the damage stack. It's a bit too good of a trick.
Yes the damage stack. It's a bit too good of a trick.
True. But now I want to go all -Fist of the North Star- on someone.
uh... when throwing shuriken, doesn't damage from sneak attack only count for one shuriken?
When you use a full round attack doesn't each of your attacks get sneak attack? Yes? Then so does your shuriken.
uh... when throwing shuriken, doesn't damage from sneak attack only count for one shuriken?
Perhaps you are thinking of in 3.0 when you could throw 3 shuriken in standard attack?